Jump to content

Documenting how spells and abilities work. Also character changes from DQ Heroes 1 to DQ Heroes 2.


Recommended Posts

On 12/27/2020 at 10:01 PM, Plattym3 said:

I read all this and my head spins. You've gone quite in depth with all this! Hope this helps future min/max players!

I try my best. If it helps any, to basically sum it all up, good continuous, physical attacks and abilities are what are best for DPS. So characters that are really strong are Carver, Desdemona, Terry, Lazarel/Teresa as a gladiator, Psaro, Luceus, Aurora, and Torneko. The other important thing is very strong support. So characters like Lazarel/Teresa as a priest, Angelo, and Meena are hugely important for helping the party out. And it doesn't hurt that the priest vocation and Angelo are fairly good for damage output in most situations, too.

Edited by AzureZoa
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 90
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Sure thing. It’d be nice to have this somewhere as an extra resource. 

Well, this happened: Used Lazarel with claws as a gladiator. No AI. Just solo on Estark Extreme. I CAN SUB THREE MINUTE THIS MAN. This is crazy. I believe I've found the most powerful DPS o

So I started looking into the characters who use the sword/shield move set, and I firmly believe Luceus and Aurora have a more fundamentally solid set of options compared to Lazarel and Teresa. Compar

Posted Images

20201229205536_1.thumb.jpg.758b7e3ba01ca229250f9d80bf2b33ed.jpg

This is crazy. And I mean in a surprising and good way: I got this with ANGELO.

That simple Oomph boosting set I give to Carver, sage, and Desdemona? Gave it to Angelo, and I got this. It's entirely possible to get into the rare three minute category with him, and he's a bow user. This took me completely by surprise. I knew bow was good, but all it needed was Oomph and a few proper accessories to push it into such a crazy state of DPS.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/29/2020 at 7:01 PM, AzureZoa said:

20201229205536_1.thumb.jpg.758b7e3ba01ca229250f9d80bf2b33ed.jpg

This is crazy. And I mean in a surprising and good way: I got this with ANGELO.

That simple Oomph boosting set I give to Carver, sage, and Desdemona? Gave it to Angelo, and I got this. It's entirely possible to get into the rare three minute category with him, and he's a bow user. This took me completely by surprise. I knew bow was good, but all it needed was Oomph and a few proper accessories to push it into such a crazy state of DPS.

Impressive! Makes me rethink Angelo altogether.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

20210101235452_1.thumb.jpg.f4e16a6c64f814fee7e56d75d742b37e.jpg

I cannot stress how angry this fight made me with Bianca. And I mean swearing my head off mad. I really ****ing hate Estark right now...

 

Anyways, rant aside, this took at least probably 12 attempts to get. Maybe more. Bianca is fragile, and has a moderate dodge at +10 only. So while she can dodge stuff somewhat, she's nowhere near as tanky or safe as any other bow user. I really had to calculate my dodges, and I was trying to play around Estark's tension like with Angelo, but zoning him out compared to Angelo is just...it's simply not possible.

Bianca's primary DPS comes combined from her Plasma Dome and just firing arrows. Or you can get somewhat higher DPS by spamming Plasma Dome since the initial hit is pretty strong. Angelo has the ranged Hyper Sniper and a...+24 dodge I think it is. So because Plasma Dome takes time to aim, she can't safely zone out as fast as him. She plays this fight up close to moderate range, which is hard for her because of frailty and safety...

So before I get to her actual DPS comparison (see following post for it), I should mention this fight went horrendously, but better than any other other prior dozen or so attempts. I had an absolutely fantastic run going before Estark got Bianca with a tension amped Multislash. Given that was my bad because she was recovering from the end lag of Plasma Dome when Estark did his wind up animation for Multislash. I couldn't dodge between his legs fast enough because of the distance from him, so there was nothing I could do.

But this doesn't account for all the other BS he gave me in this fight. It was just amazing how horrendous my luck was. I literally lost two rounds that I had to Evac out of because I had one Healstone left, he uses Snooze, then proceeds to jump at me into his own attack. I simply couldn't tank the sleep explosions when he fell asleep. Or the one time he was in maximum tension, his Snooze actually catches Bianca, and he does his 3K damage attack...yet somehow the game didn't want to put him to sleep like it should have, and cancel out his attack in the process...

Yeah...that's literally a few examples of what happened...

SO! For the strategy, you want to save up your tension and get it before Estark does. Not a problem to do. You can do it practically any time with no difficulty. You want to save this for the first time he tenses up, and uses whatever version of Snooze he uses. Activate tension, then proceed to abuse him with as many Plasma Domes as you can fire off. If you calculate it right, you can get him stuck in his weakened state twice in a row.

This is to minimize any potential sleep explosions that Bianca simply cannot deal with. She has no perfect block, and dodging the sleep explosions are simply impossible. You can only tank them. You will have to play around Estark in tension a few times during the fight, so make sure your dodges are on point. During my fight I believe there were two points where I simply couldn't avoid putting Estark to sleep, and it cost me a lot of time. Just keep up the strategy of arrows and Plasma Dome as much as possible.

Edited by AzureZoa
Link to post
Share on other sites

I did another test run, and got one that was actually "clean". I'll leave the original post up for strats, but gonna edit out the DPS segments because I got some new results that make me really believe otherwise. I'll include them in here though:

So I mentioned getting getting sub six minutes with Bianca was feasible, but I finally had a really solid run with extremely low crap from Estark. I shaved off almost half a second with it. Right at 6:30. 24 seconds shaved off. Pretty good considering. It should be possible to push a tad below 6:20 at best. Probably around 6:15.

So now I believe otherwise. Her damage output is still good though. It's not lacking thankfully, and this round I went in with a set that maximizes her DPS out Plasma Dome. Turns out it's actually considered a spell by the game. Not an ability. Huh. Go figure. So end result is her DPS is actually better than sage with Oomph powered whip by a significant margin.

She doesn't have anywhere near Angelo's DPS, and I plan to compare her results to Lazarel and Teresa with bow as well. Other small nuggets of wisdom that I learned from a lucky level is: Plasma Dome is incapable of criticals. Explosive arrows cannot critical either.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Gonna post here to correct misinformation in an updated post in case people miss:

On 12/26/2020 at 11:01 AM, AzureZoa said:

Okay so experimentation with the Oomph sage set up gave me clear insight into its potential. I had a bad run with Estark, where he was hopping around a lot, and spammed Disruptive Wave too many times where I lost count. I still ended up with 7:18, so with a more precise run, I could see this getting into the low six minute category. Maybe sub six if everything aligns, though I think that might be pushing it.

(If you're reading this later on, disregard the first paragraph. Sub seven is plausible but hard. Sub six is not.)

:

On 12/26/2020 at 11:01 AM, AzureZoa said:

Also on the subject of potential, I found staff finally has offensive merit in the priest/priestess vocation of all things. Staff still as a mediocre attack string, and Whirly Burly is still extremely bad on single targets, but priest/priestess actually get access to a fantastic offensive ability to help it out: Furious Flurry. The damage is a lot higher than I expected. So using it in moderation is key, but really a good ability due to how bad staff is one single targets. In total one use does about 1.8K in damage at end game with 555 attack using the set up I have.

It's much, much better than Crushed Ice because there's no horrible start up lag, and does more damage. Plus it appears to just finish faster in general. Priest makes it a well rounded set with Kabuff, Multiheal, Deliverance, and Furious Flurry. Would recommend giving this a shot, too.

(Disregard the 1.8K damage, and saying Furious Flurry is better than Crushed Ice. I did some calcs later and the actual normal range is 1.2K for both of them. They're both as strong as each other. Crushed Ice is slower, but can freeze for a while, and costs 5 MP less. It's definitely better in most situations over Furious Flurry.)

Read the parentheses for updated information.

Edited by AzureZoa
Double post.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Okay. At last I have the DPS comparison between Lazarel/Teresa as sage with bow. I ran as much attack up buffs as I could with an uber ace of spoils that gives 20% ability damage increases. Ran most of my DPS off Shining Shot and Hyper Sniper, and used them to the limit as much as my MP would allow.

I got about five or six criticals over the course of the match that shaved off considerable time, which I cannot get with Bianca...and I ended up roughly 20 seconds faster. Disregarding my last move that whiffed on him, time would've been about 6:07 or 6:08. So taking into consideration the sheer amount of damage per critical I was doing (like 4.5K), and the ridiculous number I got, I can conclude that sage bow DPS is roughly around Bianca's, maybe a hair worse, without all these criticals. So with this info, I think in general sage is the better bow user than Bianca.

The extra 75 HP, seven extra defense, and the very important +5 for a natural +15 dodge makes sage much less risky to use. I think Bianca has the better arrow charges (the best in fact), but she doesn't have access to the Zam line that's the best spell in the game. Plus sage has access to Snooze as well. Bianca shreds crowds better because she fires the most off her Rain of Pain, but Shining Shot can function as a crowd killer (though to a noticeably lesser extent) as well. Plus it is a highly damaging single target ability that possesses more immediate damage than Plasma Dome.

Though the thing is Bianca doesn't burn through all her MP like sage does when all she needs is just one move and arrow spam. Also, she has access to one of the absolute best spells still in the Frizz line, and it costs less than half of the required MP for Kazammle. She even naturally packs 53 more MP than sage. So I think in terms of consistent DPS, Bianca wins out. She has the highest natural attack of any bow user, largest MP pool, and highest deftness. She has the second highest magical might as well (30 under sage). So she's dealing considerable spell damage.

Despite all this, I think the bulk and extra safety on dodge simply is more important to have due to how chaotic this game gets. It's very important to be able to survive some of the strongest moves in the game, and Bianca simply cannot do this. One mistake and she goes down quicker than any other character.

Edited by AzureZoa
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm starting to compile a list of spells and abilities in this game using Estark as my guinea pig:

New moves registered as spells:

-Plasma Dome (every single hitbox is buffed by spell damage)

-Miracle Moon (oddly only the first two hitboxes receive damage buffs, the following hits after cannot be buffed by ability or spell perks)

Nera information:

-Her Hubble Bubble scales off magical might rather than attack, so despite packing Oomph, she cannot use it effectively herself due to her unnaturally low attack power. Even Strength Ring set ups do nothing.

-Maelstrom surprisingly sucks in her Hubble Bubbles, so trapping groups of enemies into it, and popping does a lot of damage.

-Listed above, but Miracle Moon is considered a spell for the first two hits.

-Make sure to run a Dark Orb on her for safety. Only has an awful +5 dodge. Very easy for her to get hit, and has low natural bulk like Bianca to begin with.

Compiled list of bow abilities so far:

-Shining Shot

-Hyper Sniper

-Rain of Pain

-Needle Shot/Needle Rain (Needle Shot hits three times, Needle Rain eight times with each giving at least one guaranteed critical, though individual base damage ranges for each hit are very low)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Been a while since the last post. Figured I'd go ahead with a couple updates:

-Guide has resumed. I'm working on incorporating .mp4 files to make it a lot easier to view all a character's attributes.

-Progress on DQH2 for Switch has resumed. Am currently headed towards the battle at the Great Divide. Been just power leveling my crew, and waiting for my computer to return from repairs. Can't really understand a lot of hiragana and katakana, so trying to pick skills for my characters has been impossible without the Steam version to refer to.

-Honestly, I really don't like the performance of the Switch version. The console can barely handle the game. There's extremely frequent frame drops. Graphical quality has been just gutted compared to the other versions as well. Plus the overall physics are really wonky. The cape in the DQH1 costume is extremely stiff. I think they changed the bones for it.

-So far I haven't encountered Ragnar. I really have no idea where he's gonna appear. I'll provide updates when I get him, but from what I can guess so far, he's extremely late into the story. I'll include stats and weapons for him as well. If there's anyone skilled in hiragana and/or katakana, I could use your help compiling Ragnar's weapon proficiency, skill tree, and more when I get access to him.

-The exclusive content in the game I can confirm as follows: Ragnar plus weapons for him, map with Malroth, Prince of Midenhall costume acquired after defeating Malroth, and Erdrick's outfit as DLC added to the game. Teresa's hair comes undone from her ribbon in this outfit during tension just like her normal one. I've been thinking of somehow taking this content and adding it to the Steam version as an unofficial patch. I just need to find the files first.

 

Anyways that's it for now.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't take a picture fast enough, but finally sub five minutes with Terry. 4:57. Just had to switch up his Lightning Strike to Double-Edged Slash, and alternate between that and Uber Cutting Edge in super high tension. Pretty positive it can go lower since this run was pretty bad. Still, good stuff for my man, Terry. Goal is accomplished. 👍

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Meena write up:

-Meena is the most frail character in the game at 290 defense, and 385 HP with Metal King Orb. She has a very good +18 dodge though.

-Obviously she's meant to be a mage character, but lacks the offense you'd expect from the class. Meena's offensive abilities are some of the weakest in the game, coupled with extremely long animations tied to them. Kaswoosh or activating any tarot has a substantial animation tied to it (Kawsoosh especially).

-Meena is all about status effects and healing. Her attack string does low damage, her attack is very low, and her Wild Cards ability is extremely weak in terms of damage even at level 99 (does sub 100 damage even on basic enemies like Metal Slime Knights in Unos' world). All of her tarots, minus The Empress and The Tower, inflict a status effect. Death and The Fool have similar damage ranges, being her second most powerful tarots, but both have the least desirable effects. The primary set I run for her is The Moon, The Tower, The Devil, and Multiheal. Meena lacks a lot of offense, but her support is among the strongest of any character.

-Let's cover her The Fool and Death tarots. First, like I mentioned, The Fool and Death are her second most damaging tarots with around the same damage ranges, but the least desirable effects. Death possesses an effect similar to Whack, and any long time DQ fan will tell you...it's not very good lol. The effect is rare. The Fool is similar. Poison is fairly uncommon to trigger, and the damage over time takes way too long in between ticks of damage to occur. Very bad abilities. The damage might be worth it, no? Nah. Even though they're her most damaging tarots after The Tower, the damage is around 1/3 of that of The Tower can potentially be. Roughly 370-380 damage range at level 99 with a very optimal build.

-The set I recommended above is the best for support. The Tower with an optimal build can do in excess of 1,000 damage. It is considered a spell by the game. Easily her best, and most important, damage output option. The Moon does around 50 less damage compared to Death/The Fool on average, which isn't really much considering how low their damage is to begin with anyways. What makes it so important is it guarantees dazzle, even against the likes of Estark (even if it's like for a second in length), giving physical attacks a chance to miss Meena given her low physical bulk. Same for her allies. Dazzle on more normal enemies lasts much longer than against someone like Estark as well. Multiheal is the best heal option in the game for the crew (minus Fullheal healstones if you're playing with AIs). The Devil is also extremely important for crew support. Damage from it is the lowest of any of her tarots, at sub-300 damage even with an optimal build, but guarantees a defense drop when activated. This is vital for crew support and DPS. It's essentially a ranged Sap on everything affected by her tarot markers, meaning it's a ranged Kasap from anywhere, which is pretty crazy for support.

-If you want to max her DPS, it really boils down to using all hits of her attack string, then follow up with The Tower on an optimal build that maxes out spell damage, and her magical might. Keep in mind The Tower cannot critical just like Bianca's Plasma Dome. Only the generic named spells like Frizz can critical.

Edited by AzureZoa
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
8 hours ago, Plattym3 said:

It may not spark the typed response, but it's fascinating reads.

Tbqh I wasn't sure if people most viewers found it interesting or not. With the lack of typed responses I wasn't completely sure like you said. So that makes me happy. Gives me more motivation to continue with this. Thanks. :thumbsup:

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...