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Posted (edited)

When I played through DQII I only used the surround spell once and immediately dismissed it as useless because it seemingly didn't do anything and I didn't know what it was supposed to do. I keep thinking about how dumb I am for not using it because it would of totally made playing through the game much easier.

Maybe I wouldn't have everyone in my party except Midenhall dead when I killed Malroth.

I only realized how important of it was when I saw it's description when playing DQIII for the SFC. Now I get my priest to use it in literally the start of every battle. Did anything similar happen to anyone else?

Edited by DragonQuest2IsGood

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I literally never use Surround.

Which version of DQII are you referring to? Surround is an old spell name.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Erdrick The Hero said:

I literally never use Surround.

Which version of DQII are you referring to? Surround is an old spell name.

NES, also surround to me has become the DQ equivalent to (de)buffing in Nocturne.

Edited by DragonQuest2IsGood
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I literally never use Surround.

Which version of DQII are you referring to? Surround is an old spell name.
Me neither. Then again, I rarely use magic. Is it really that effective an attack deterrent?

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4 minutes ago, Plattym3 said:

Me neither. Then again, I rarely use magic. Is it really that effective an attack deterrent?

It and the other status ailments are useful in the mobile and Switch versions of the game. My guess is from the Super Famicom version onwards they realized they needed to improve on the effectiveness of ailments. I don’t know how useful they are in the original version of II, but I would guess since it was only the second game at the time the use of Surround, Sleep, and so forth may have been a bit more limited.

I’ve found whenever I replay DQ games I try and use stuff I never used much before, and from there found stuff like ailments being really helpful. DQ is one of the few RPG series where ailments are actually useful to use on everything, kind of like in Etrian Odyssey. Can’t tell you how many times stuff like Dazzle and Snooze helped me out in Dragon Quest XI with stronger enemies on. It’s why Rab is one of my favorite characters from that game thanks to his versatile spell and ability sets.

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It and the other status ailments are useful in the mobile and Switch versions of the game. My guess is from the Super Famicom version onwards they realized they needed to improve on the effectiveness of ailments. I don’t know how useful they are in the original version of II, but I would guess since it was only the second game at the time the use of Surround, Sleep, and so forth may have been a bit more limited.
I’ve found whenever I replay DQ games I try and use stuff I never used much before, and from there found stuff like ailments being really helpful. DQ is one of the few RPG series where ailments are actually useful to use on everything, kind of like in Etrian Odyssey. Can’t tell you how many times stuff like Dazzle and Snooze helped me out in Dragon Quest XI with stronger enemies on. It’s why Rab is one of my favorite characters from that game thanks to his versatile spell and ability sets.
Interesting... maybe when everything gets a Switch 3 port I'll have to try it out. Or if I ever get my DQXI game back.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Plattym3 said:

Interesting... maybe when everything gets a Switch 3 port I'll have to try it out. Or if I ever get my DQXI game back. emoji1787.png

You learn new things all the time. Sometimes you just have to try it, other times you hear it through the grape vine. For example, I’ve been watching a few Paper Mario 64 and Thousand Year Door videos and I’ve learned about badges (they give Mario and the partner characters different abilities depending on the badges) that can really help with some difficult enemies, with some things I never knew about.

DQ can get tactical if you want it to, or you can keep it straightforward. That’s kind of the beauty of the series’ battle system.

Edited by YangustheLegendaryBandit
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I'd say Nocturne was the wake up call for me.

After killing Matador I became obsessed with (de)buffing in RPG's and I now have an huge desire to know how each stat system works in eacy game.

I just really wanna know the exact mechanical/technical meaning of +3 DEF.

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I use buffs and debuffs much more frequently in DQ than in most other RPGs… but I don't think I've ever used Surround/Dazzle.

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One game that’s fun to use status ailments in is Final Fantasy IV. On my last playthrough of the PSP version, I found that there are quite a lot of enemies affected by either the Pig, Toad, or Mini spells, which can be humorous and helpful. I always ignored them, but was surprised by how dang useful they are for some of the tougher enemies throughout the game.

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I'd say Nocturne was the wake up call for me.
After killing Matador I became obsessed with (de)buffing in RPG's and I now have an huge desire to know how each stat system works in eacy game.
I just really wanna know the exact mechanical/technical meaning of +3 DEF.
@ignasia might have a good idea how that works.

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Yeah, I agree that status ailments can be lifesavers at times. I try to use them often without draining MP too quickly. 

 

One of the many reasons I love my Sage in my Current DQ III party. 

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The only non-attack spells I ever find useful in battle are the Buff line, Heal line, Reheal line, Zing line, Oomph line, Snooze line (only on certain bosses), Squelch (only if envenomnated) and "Heavy" (unlocalized, DQX only).

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"Heavy" (unlocalized, DQX only).

 

Like your boss babes a bit thicc?

2991ae186ecf7c6f73aae3d01098b7df.jpg

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52 minutes ago, Plattym3 said:

 

Like your boss babes a bit thicc? emoji8.png

2991ae186ecf7c6f73aae3d01098b7df.jpg

She was definitely the inspiration for the spell.

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Posted (edited)

I'm suprised noone uses surround because it does wonders when trying to get the enemies to not hit me.

Edited by DragonQuest2IsGood

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, DragonQuest2IsGood said:

I'm suprised noone uses surround because it does wonders when trying to get the enemies to not hit me.

I just minimize damage by buying the best equipment available. In my experience, surround almost never works.

13 hours ago, Erdrick The Hero said:

The only non-attack spells I ever find useful in battle are the Buff line, Heal line, Reheal line, Zing line, Oomph line, Snooze line (only on certain bosses), Squelch (only if envenomnated) and "Heavy" (unlocalized, DQX only).

Forgot to mention Sap line and Insulate line.

@Plattym3 The Heavy spell makes your character harder for enemies to push around the battlefield. Useful for protecting weaker, near-death, or support party members.

Edited by Erdrick The Hero

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I use Surround. Not all the time, but against very physical creatures, especially in the older games, and often when I'm lower in MP and HP, and want to either explore a bit more, or I haven't gotten to the next town yet, and the spike is a bit more than my current levels can handle.

5/8th's reduction in hit-rate goes a long way in some battles.

As per DQ2 and changes?  Yeah, there were some changes in the remakes, though it wasn't all to make things easier; in some cases, more difficult.

Sidoh/Malroth, for example (DQ2 calculates resistance as a #/7, so higher numbers = higher resistance):

Attack Magic (all properties) = 7 -> 0
Surround = 4 -> 5
Sleep = 7 -> 6
Sap = 2 -> 0

Hargon changes:

Attack Magic = 3 -> 2

Belial changes:

Attack Magic = 5 -> 3
Surround = 0 -> 5
Sleep = 5 -> 7
Death = 6 -> 7
Sap = 0 -> 7

Pazuzu changes:

Attack Magic = 4 -> 5
Surround = 6 -> 0
Sleep = 3 -> 2
Death = 7 -> 5
Sap = 4 -> 0

Atlas changes:

Surround = 2 -> 3
Sap = 2 -> 0

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Using the correct buffs and debuffs as needed is the difference between being able to basically push right through most of the DQ series or having to stop and intermittently grind for levels. That's just my experience though, YMMV.

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19 hours ago, GrandAlchemist said:

Using the correct buffs and debuffs as needed is the difference between being able to basically push right through most of the DQ series or having to stop and intermittently grind for levels. That's just my experience though, YMMV.

Yeah, I agree. 

 

Though I always end up grinding a little anyway. Makes things smoother. 

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So just right now I didn't use stopspell on a Magwyvern. Here are the consequences:


Just replace beast's eye with chaos.

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Ah yes, good ol’ Mot. If Matador or Trumpeter didn’t give you a hell of a time, Mot sure will.

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10 minutes ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:

Ah yes, good ol’ Mot. If Matador or Trumpeter didn’t give you a hell of a time, Mot sure will.

Matador made me quit the game for almost half a year I think.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, DragonQuest2IsGood said:

Matador made me quit the game for almost half a year I think.

Trumpeter was my brick wall. Matador was tough but I got through it after making use of the Cathedral of Shadows and haven’t had many problems with him on replays since I knew what to expect. Doesn’t mean he’s easy every time, but it helps.

Edited by YangustheLegendaryBandit
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Ok guys I'm literally at the end of DQIII but I keep getting #$*!ing stomped on before I even have the chance to enter Zoma's castle. What do I do? My characters at levels 35-39 rn.

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