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Helping Finding Out DQII & VI Monster Encounter Groups


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I'm trying to figure out what the specific monster groups are per area in DQ2 and 6. Not like, where individual monster can be found, but what are the formations those monsters appear in. For example, around Weaver's Peak on the field you can get into a fight with "Spotted Slime x1", "Feralball x2 + Spotted Slime x3", etc.  

Something like what this guide explains would help a lot: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gbc/450388-dragon-warrior-iii/faqs/70113

But I'm assuming no similar guide exists for these games, so I'd like to have a better understanding of how I can figure this stuff out for myself. I wouldn't mind going into the games and using save states to reload areas and explore every possible encounter,  but I don't even know the quadrants/regions the monster encounters are divided up into.

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Formations in DQ aren't like in FF and Tales.  They're not fixed from 2 onward.  1 is fixed clearly, as it's 1 monster per battle.

DQ's, since 2, work on a randomization basis, 2~4 go by groups and individuals, 5 onward goes by individuals only.

  1. Battle triggers, RNG rolls for initial monster.
  2. DQ's 2~4 will roll for a certain group type for that monster depending on size.  DQ2 Small = 1, 2, 4~5.  DQ2 Medium/Large = 1, 2, 3.  Small = 1, 2~3, 4~5, 6~8. Medium 1, 2~3, 4, 5.  Large 1, 2, or 3.  DQ3 mobile/ios/droid/ps4/3ds/switch changes this to more fixed values on SOME maps.  Small = 1, 2 or 3, 4 or 5, 6 or 7 or 8, and so on.
  3. DQ's 2~4 will then roll for adjacent monsters depending on available slots.  Available alternative monsters are based on % values.  In the mobile port of 3 and all versions of 3 beyond the mobile (iOS/Droid/PS4/3DS/Switch), these are fixed values on certain maps for certain enemies.  So you actually get something that looks much closer to FF lineups on some maps.  Like 2 Archmages + 2 Liquid Metal Slimes on certain maps such as the first floor of Zoma's Castle.  What used to be 2~3 is now a fixed 2 LMS, and what used to be a multitude of potential spawns with a multitude of potential enemies, is now a fixed 2x Archmages.  However this is not consistent on every map for every enemy.
  4. In most cases for 4 especially, even in the remakes, if a group count of 4~5, and there's enough space for 1 large, 2 medium, or 3~4 small, the game will roll for those extra spaces to be filled up, and based on the main monster picked, there's a % chance for each individual monster that's available, in some cases 1 or 2 monsters are the only potential selection, in other cases it's a wide variety.  Typically one monster has a VERY high % chance to spawn with another, and may only be allowed to spawn a certain count, so if there isn't room, it won't spawn, if there is room, it will almost certainly spawn.

DQ's 5+

  1. Battle triggers, RNG rolls for an initial monster.  9, 7+8 3ds, 11 the initial monster you just get to see.
  2. RNG rolls for next monster based on relationship with initial monster, priority on same monster.  This often ends in similar setups.  It's even more fixed in the DS versions than the originals.  The % values much higher, so it generally assures virtually identical make-ups, even with a slightly different system.  If it's a 70% chance you'll get 3 Weaken Beacons in a row, and a 1% chance anything else spawns, or a 0% in some cases, and a 10% if only 2 Weaken Beacons are rolled, for a different monster, while it's like a 70% for that third, so almost every Weaken Beacon battle is 2 or 3 of the same monster, and almost never, except in some cases, with another.

 

As to where you can find a resource that breaks this down?  Only for DQ3.  You won't find it for any of the others, as once DQ2 came out, and the general formation building system was uncovered, and it's only been slightly tweaked since, Japanese coders don't really care, because they're not absolutely fixed values like most other JRPG's, so you will never find a DQ site that covers this, as it's too much information, and info that's not exactly exploitable.

As for DQ3, I give you Sk8erpunq's work on DQ3 GBC (which you already linked to):

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gbc/450388-dragon-warrior-iii/faqs/70113

I guess my point is, you didn't quite understand Sk8er's guide.  It's not saying there are fixed values.  It's saying there are specific ranges of potential outcomes.  It's not feasible to look into it, because it's different every area, and slightly tweaked every game, or new release of the same games.  There are, unfortunately not actual real fixed enemy formations.  That would require hacking the game code, learning hex, and working backward for each game, then finding the map data associated with potential ranges or % values related to each monster present, then presenting that, then the sorting algorithm that determines initial monsters, which group size type, what count range in that size, then what alternative monsters if any, will spawn, and what range again, etc.

Edited by ignasia
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Awww, that's a shame. I saw that guide too and thought that was really cool that he figured out the configurations. I also misunderstood that it was so random. Oh well.

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4 hours ago, aerynb said:

Awww, that's a shame. I saw that guide too and thought that was really cool that he figured out the configurations. I also misunderstood that it was so random. Oh well.

I think it's a worthy thing to look into to get the specifics on the algorithm and formation data.  I could be wrong in individuation from 5 onward, and it maintains group orientation.

What surprised me is he didn't include certain data he uncovered when he first dug into it, similar data to what Paulygon had initially found.  Related to how if you have Enemy A, there's a % chance to spawn another Enemy A or Enemy B.  Which when further dug into, the number of instances of 100% for Enemy A #2, and maybe #3, and maybe #4, indicated a group orientation, but he never posted anything in between first figuring out the individual in-battle slots and how individuals are chosen, then how he wrote the FAQ, which was after doing a lot of further digging.

I'll see if I can't find Sk8er's posts sometime later, related to this.  Some of them were in a few nfrazee topics, a few others in topics made by others.  I don't know if I kept track of that.  If I find them, I'll post them here.

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12 hours ago, ignasia said:

Formations in DQ aren't like in FF and Tales.  They're not fixed from 2 onward.  1 is fixed clearly, as it's 1 monster per battle.

Honestly I didn't really look at sk8tor's guide at all, I just was looking for encounter maps and the only one I found was the one for 3. The randomization makes sense though, I did an experiment before where I just went through a bunch of battles on the hilltop area outside Weaver's Peak and ended up writing down like ~15 unique formations before stopping.

Now I really don't understand your first #2 bullet point. You're saying

Quote

DQ2 Small = 1, 2, 4~5.  DQ2 Medium/Large = 1, 2, 3.

  While also saying

Quote

Small = 1, 2~3, 4~5, 6~8. Medium 1, 2~3, 4, 5.  Large 1, 2, or 3. 

 

I figured the first line was referring to how many monsters are found in a specific type of group. So a small group can be composed of 1, 2, or 4-5 monsters, while a large group can have 1, 2, or 3 monsters. But that doesn't make sense according to the names, considering that would mean a small group could have more monsters than a large group. Small/Medum/Large is referring to the number of monsters in the group, right? Still I don't know what to think of the next line because it seems like you're redefining what you said in the first one.

The rest of it mostly makes sense, though I feel like I'm really missing some context without fully understanding the lines I quoted. For my purposes, I don't need to know 100% of the details if they're this obfuscated, as long as I have enough that I could replicate the system without any noticeable differences. So I guess the next thing I'd wanna ask is how can I figure out the regions the world is separated into for the purposes of spawning monsters? According to the map for 3, it seems like everything's just divided into squares and a check to see if you're on land or ground, but how can I figure out how big those squares are for 2 & 6? Or if they do something entirely different in those games? I'm guessing it wouldn't be too ridiculous to do a couple more experiments in-game to see how big one quadrant is and then extrapolate that to the rest of the world, they might even be identical to 3's since the world maps are the same size. But I think I'll seek your wisdom first before I start to poke around.

Oh, one more question - how do you know about these "fixed values on certain maps for certain enemies" thing? Is it just that apparent from playing or do you have to do some digging?

 

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DQ2 Small = 1, 2, 4~5.  DQ2 Medium/Large = 1, 2, 3.

Small = 1, 2~3, 4~5, 6~8. Medium 1, 2~3, 4, 5.  Large 1, 2, or 3.  <- so DQ3/4 and maybe 5.

Most of the other games is just guessing based on trial and error testing, and Sk8er's DQ3 info.   I'll get to the rest of the post later.  Try to anyway.

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