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7 days to Summarize!


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Hey all, so despite the title, about 7 days from now I'll be sitting down with some of my RPGamer staff friends to discuss a 4-pack of muosu games: Fire Emblem Warriors, Hyrule Warriors, DQH1, and DQH2. I'm going to fire up the 2 DQ games a bit tonight & take some notes, but I'd like your help.

 

What were some of the biggest differences between DQH 1 and 2?

 

Did 1 do soemthing better than the other?

 

Memorable moments?

 

Would love to crowd recall this stuff! Anyone do multi-player? How'd that work?

 

 

Summoning[mention=5333]ignasia[/mention]

 

 

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Yangus and Healix were the best of friends in Heroes 1.

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I don't own DQH1, unfortunately, and I haven't gotten far enough into 2 (I've only played through the demo, despite owning it).  Most of my time with DQ is devoted to 7 and setting up my ultimate Super Kiefer, and DQ11 and testing critical rates.

I would say it's less chaotic than Dynasty Warriors.  The skill pool offers more variety in combat, especially given the various number of available characters and the variety of play styles, from fast and speedy swordsman (Terry) to slightly fast (Teresa) to more like a standard hero (Razel) to really slow hard hitters (Torneko and Carver).

I can't really tell you much more than that.  The boss battles are massive, and it takes a little skill getting used to timing as to when to charge in, when to avoid, when to dodge, when to use a skill/spell attack, when to use one of the special charge attacks, and when to reserve to take out the summoned small fry.

AI for the main characters is good, but they don't really use their best attacks. You'd have to switch characters to make the most out of every battle with their special.

That's about all I can tell you, and it's not a genre I play very often.  So I don't have much to compare with in terms of experience.

Sorry Platty 😕

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Just now, ignasia said:

I don't own DQH1, unfortunately, and I haven't gotten far enough into 2 (I've only played through the demo, despite owning it).  Most of my time with DQ is devoted to 7 and setting up my ultimate Super Kiefer, and DQ11 and testing critical rates.

I would say it's less chaotic than Dynasty Warriors.  The skill pool offers more variety in combat, especially given the various number of available characters and the variety of play styles, from fast and speedy swordsman (Terry) to slightly fast (Teresa) to more like a standard hero (Razel) to really slow hard hitters (Torneko and Carver).

I can't really tell you much more than that.  The boss battles are massive, and it takes a little skill getting used to timing as to when to charge in, when to avoid, when to dodge, when to use a skill/spell attack, when to use one of the special charge attacks, and when to reserve to take out the summoned small fry.

AI for the main characters is good, but they don't really use their best attacks. You'd have to switch characters to make the most out of every battle with their special.

That's about all I can tell you, and it's not a genre I play very often.  So I don't have much to compare with in terms of experience.

Sorry Platty 😕

No worries, my friend. I'm about to load each up for 30 mins and jot down things I recall from each. I mean I put 50-100 hours in each (my kids did a lot too) so a lot will come back to me. And there are others on that played too. Thanks for responding! 

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Have fun with the round table!

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On 3/2/2020 at 5:22 PM, Plattym3 said:

Hey all, so despite the title, about 7 days from now I'll be sitting down with some of my RPGamer staff friends to discuss a 4-pack of muosu games: Fire Emblem Warriors, Hyrule Warriors, DQH1, and DQH2. I'm going to fire up the 2 DQ games a bit tonight & take some notes, but I'd like your help.

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On 3/2/2020 at 5:22 PM, Plattym3 said:

What were some of the biggest differences between DQH 1 and 2?

 

On 2/27/2020 at 5:49 PM, Brother Jaybird said:

There's a fair bit to talk about! There's gameplay differences -- DQH2 refines and improves on a lot of the mechanics, like auto-pickup for loot, free healstones, and scaling the the amount of monster hunting you need to do for mini medals with the spawn-rate of the monster, but lacks a lot of the variety and ingenuity of DQH combat (there's nothing in DQH2 like the mission to stop Gigantes in time by shooting it in the face with magic cannons, every boss in DQH2 just boils down to attack-dodge-attack-dodge-attack) -- and story differences -- DQH2 has a more ambitious and complicated story featuring at least one... decent character arc, but flubs the final act when the twist deep sixes the original narrative arc, which you've heard me whine about before.

Other things DQH2 did were to completely redesign the experience system, added a weapons proficiency mechanic, and on the whole DQH2's unique characters have vastly more attention lavished on them and their designs than anyone in the first game, from the plump witch overseeing the alchemy pot to Maxi Malone ("Whaddaya waaaaaant?"), the massive platypunk mobster-king. DQHI had painfully generic dwarves and elves that look like they got ripped right out of the Peter Jackson LOTR films, as if we wouldn't fricking notice.

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DQH2 also put notably more effort into its legacy character relationships, giving us fun things to work with like Torneko and Ruff on the one hand and Carver and Maribel on the other. Unfortunately, I think they must have rushed the main story -- everything from Lazarel and Teresa being de-saturated, sex-swapped (and thereby more generic) versions of Luceus and Aurora to reusing the Nightmaws and Mawkeepers with nary a word of explanation (despite being explicitly tied to the lore of the original) the final arc having basically nothing to do with anything previously set up indicates they should've kept it in the oven a little longer.

On 3/2/2020 at 5:22 PM, Plattym3 said:

Did 1 do soemthing better than the other?

Heroes II made a lot of things easier than Heroes I, but lacks a lot of the inventiveness of the original -- I mentioned the iconic Gigantes fight earlier, but DQH also had the Boss Troll & Cosmic Chimaera fight where you had to shoot the Cosmic Chimaera with a Ballista provided you could get a chance with all the fire constantly raining down on you, chasing a Living Statue and trying to kill it before it kills your friends, the Grim Golem fight where you solve the problem of its immortality by knocking it out of Yggdrasil's branches, trying to defend the tree of life from a Hellcaster assault AND a Demon-at-arms AND their Uberkilling Machine support, the king hydra fight where you have to roll Rockbombs down its throat, and the entire Bjorn fight, which is very similar in premise to the final boss of Yoshi's Island, except you get to hop on the final boss's immense snout and give it to him right between the eyes.

DQH2's bosses are pretty much just plain combat, dodging boss attacks and laying into them with yours. DQH1 had that, to be sure, but it had much more, too.

On 3/2/2020 at 5:22 PM, Plattym3 said:

Memorable moments?

DQH:
- Facing down the Gigantes boss in DQH and realizing you're about as tall as its ankles, so you have to go running up to roofs to shoot magic cannonfire at it. Really just seeing the Gigantes for the first time and realizing you have to kill a giant.

- Luceus becoming bros with Kiryl and deciding to come up with strategies to help Kiryl get with Alena. (Luceus is bar none my favorite protagonist in the Heroes series and quite possibly all of Dragon Quest. For all his pompous, long-winded tacticisms, he just has so much heart).

- Bjorn's introduction and toppling the Pinnacle of Light. Absolute masterstroke by the bad guys to take this sky-high stronghold down with the largest monster ever.

- Every word King Doric speaks in combat.

DQH2:
- Carver deciding to make Maribel his little sister, much to her chagrin.

- The fight against the twin kings.

- Getting to fight as an Atlas against a Drakularge.

- Discovering a bug that caused a winged sabrecat to faceplant into a large boulder and stay there, glaring at me. I don't think that counts, though. Also, Jessica looking purposeful.

- The sheer gauntlet of the final act, boss fight after boss fight.

- Killing a loss leader.

- Angelo and Jessica's shared episode, which involves Angelo masking what basically amounts to an exorcism by flirting with the ghost of a pretty girl.

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@Brother Jaybird that's awesome, thank you! Totally going to put a bunch of that into my show notes! Just rereading that I think I've learned equally as much as I remembered.

Odd coincidence: I loaded up both games for a bit yesterday and I have 113 hours exactly in each.

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On 3/3/2020 at 3:47 AM, Plattym3 said:

@Brother Jaybird that's awesome, thank you! Totally going to put a bunch of that into my show notes! Just rereading that I think I've learned equally as much as I remembered.

Odd coincidence: I loaded up both games for a bit yesterday and I have 113 hours exactly in each. emoji848.png

You're very welcome! I had to play and research a lot of both to finally finish them up for the wiki, so I accidentally became more of an expert than I intended. Not all the insights are originally mine (DQH1 having more versatility was an insight somebody had on a GameFAQs thread I was reading a month or more ago, but on review I found it to be spot on), but they're worth sharing. It occurs to me that a lot of those unique boss fights are born from combining boss fights with tower defense missions, which is something DQH1 DQH2 kept pretty distinct.

So 113 hours is your cutoff point for DQ content? Got it.

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So 113 hours is your cutoff point for DQ content? Got it.


We all have our limits

Playing around last night I wondered how I got there so looked at all my saves.

DQHTWTWATBB - it seems I tapped out around 80 hours with everyone level 99 and all but 2 missions complete (#$*!ing Zona and Nokturnus). My sons did the extra 30 or so hours.

DQH2 - I seem to have beat the game in 37ish hours. Maybe I gave it until 60 hours, but oh boy, my son did the other 53 easily! Players are all around level 50.
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10 minutes ago, Plattym3 said:

DQHTWTWATBB - it seems I tapped out around 80 hours with everyone level 99 and all but 2 missions complete (#$*!ing Zona and Nokturnus). My sons did the extra 30 or so hours.


DQH2 - I seem to have beat the game in 37ish hours. Maybe I gave it until 60 hours, but oh boy, my son did the other 53 easily! Players are all around level 50.

 

Not surprising. The games are really only as long as their story, and all the extra time just goes into maxing out your levels, hunting, and boss fights. I have about 200 hours in Heroes II,

It occurs to me that Heroes II savvied up a lot after Heroes when it came to combat, and stripped out its MP Regen on Crit mechanics, so you can't exploit Bianca or Nera like you could in I. Also, Heroes II had a vocation system and weapon options, so on the whole the main characters were more customizable. (Luceus and Aurora were still better than Lazarel and Teresa, though -- as skin-deep as their strategic vs hot-blooded dynamic was, they still both had a point to their characters).

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Yeah I could tell Heroes II was fine-tuned a bit. But the first one was great because of all of the originality. 

 

And yeah, It felt a lot less chaotic than the Warriors games and certainly more "tactical". The RPG elements felt great too, which is good for gamers like me because I don't play much that isn't considered an RPG in one way or another. 

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The RPG elements felt great too, which is good for gamers like me because I don't play much that isn't considered an RPG in one way or another. 


Completely true. I don't get the same feeling from Hyrule Warriors. I never felt under leveled or too weak in that game. Sure it has RPG elements, but not like DQ.
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I'll have to go back and review Hyrule Warriors, which I have on the 3DS, but it didn't feel much the same to me, either. Partly I think it's context: DQ Heroes basically amounts to a real-time Dragon Quest game, while Hyrule Warriors is more like a straight Legend of Zelda game with some modified mechanics. (I will always love the Heroes series for the sense of size and immediacy it gives to so many of the DQ enemies; I still remember being awestruck by seeing just how big some of these monsters could be, which was something the mainline DQ games never really managed to do before then).

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7 hours ago, Plattym3 said:


 

 


Completely true. I don't get the same feeling from Hyrule Warriors. I never felt under leveled or too weak in that game. Sure it has RPG elements, but not like DQ.

 

Oh yeah! and that brings up the difficulty.

 

I enjoyed it. While there were some spots that felt a little easy, there were others that were a true challenge!

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2 hours ago, cprmauldin said:

Oh yeah! and that brings up the difficulty.

 

I enjoyed it. While there were some spots that felt a little easy, there were others that were a true challenge!

I had one weird encounter on the difficulty. I managed to get Shiek's 4th-grade weapon on the 3DS version before the 3rd-grade because the last encounter of the game was just a big poe and I was able to pin it to a corner and managed to kill it just under the time limit.

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