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ErdrickRotoLotoOrtega

To Platty or any other Horii experts around here: Has Horii ever mentioned whether he'd had the Erdrick Trilogy planned out or not?

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As a writer, I know that, more often than not, when you write a story, it often develops WHILE you're writing, meaning you have very little planned out in advance other than highlights and bullet points.

However, certain projects might dictate certain forward thinking.

My question is: does anyone know if Horii and co. had any of this planned out as a long range trilogy plan or did they sort of make it up as they went along? I ask because Dragon Quest 1 and 2 are absolutely rich with Erdrick/past lore.

I personally believe that they did NOT plan this as a trilogy from the beginning and more were inspired to explore Erdrick's story during the planning stages of Dragon Quest II.

I'm mainly asking because the Erdrick Trilogy is so neat and tidy that you could tie a bow around it. Very few, if any, holes in the overall continuity of it.

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I've never read or recall any interview suggesting planning in advance.  It's rather difficult to do so, unless you already write the main storyline first, and work out the specifics for that game first, then work on the prequels/lead-in.  Horii just patched DQ1 together initially as a pet project he presented to Enix in a contest, where his work was chosen, and he expanded it into what we know as Dragon Quest.  That suggests there were no grander ambitions.  He was a huge fan of Wizardry and Ultima, and as he's stated in numerous interviews, thought they weren't very accessible or approachable.  Thus his idea for DQ1, taking elements from both, combining them, and making a very easy to get into, intuitive game design with the same basic premise: role playing mechanics and save the world from the evil menace...plus save a princess, literally.

DQII, he barely spent time finalizing anything after the ship.  He was too busy co-ordinating with Shonen Jump after a friend suggested helping his series out through Shonen Jump promotions.  So everything post-ship has minimal story, no real story direction (he clearly wrote bits, but they were obviously hurried), and no play testing to manage enemy difficulty values (and really the story direction to assure players would likely walk into the right enemies at the right time, or be foolhardy and rush to a later area before being told to, and risk death).

That Shonen Jump push is what assured success, as DQ1 sold poorly at first (it was a success by general standards, now as then, but it wasn't the runaway success it would be after Shonen Jump's promotion for DQ2, spurring on DQ1 sales from like 100k to 1.5m, and upon DQ2's launch, the first truly successful RPG launch in Japan that helped pave the way for Final Fantasy being a runaway success).

So no, the chance DQ3 was written and crafted already, with 1 and 2 being the lead-ins is almost an impossibility given the history, and how hard Horii worked going straight into DQ2 after 1.  There's just too much in DQ3 to make that happen.  The writing is about 30~40x that of DQ2 in real terms.  There are 4x as many NPCs in the first world alone, nevermind the extra text related to core story points, and the NPCs in Alefgard, and the writing for the class change and patty's party planning place, and the bank, and other features.  The amount of in-battle text with the spell expansion to nearly 10x what was in DQ2.  The amount of menu bits, the equipment.  There's just a lot more text written for the game in names, etc.

Plus the team for DQ1, then 2, then 3 just grew a lot.

It's possible DQ3 was an ultimate dream, to eventually become realized.  Much like the King Arthur Action RPG Sakaguchi set out to make for Square, but had to cancel it in favour of Final Fantasy as the company was going under, and they needed a final attempt at success (and he's even suggested that because of Dragon Quest's popularity, Final Fantasy was able to have the success it has, so he's definitely acknowledged Horii-san, though I can't find that interview anymore).  That King Arthur game was reworked later on to become Seiken Densetsu.  So what we know as Mana, is in fact the precursor to Final Fantasy, never fully realized, and most of the code for that game was passed on to SD2, or Secret of Mana, as the Gameboy just couldn't handle the type of programming and story depth the NES could, so they used it as a precursor, a starting point, which would eventually allow them with SoM, to realize the original King Arthur story (thus the Mana Sword in the stone), though a good 60~70% of the game had to be tossed out when they were forced to rebuild SD2 for an SNES cart, as Nintendo trashed the disc system (I forget why).

Anyway, no.  DQ3 if it was an idea, was a simple and basic idea, but I've never found any interview where Horii has ever suggested it was an earlier concept he couldn't realize until later.  One built off the other, and he built DQ2 off of DQ1, and decided to make the 3rd about the past.  As to why DQ3 is a prequel is another matter...maybe he thought it would work better given the title holds so much weight in the original game, and DQ2 kind of strayed a bit off course from that.  So it offers the opportunity, given the historical basis created in both games, to go back and create the legendary hero, as that allows for a grand adventure based on lore.  Though I don't know.

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I bet that’s everything Platty would have said. He is an expert when it comes to Yuji Horii after all.

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I bet that’s everything Platty would have said. He is an expert when it comes to Yuji Horii after all.
That's far more. I've never seen anything on DQ1-3. But it's obviously tied together.

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10 minutes ago, Plattym3 said:
19 minutes ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:
I bet that’s everything Platty would have said. He is an expert when it comes to Yuji Horii after all.

That's far more. I've never seen anything on DQ1-3. But it's obviously tied together.

Oh come on! You of all should people should have realized that post was a joke and should have played along with it!

Geez...

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10 minutes ago, Plattym3 said:
19 minutes ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:
I bet that’s everything Platty would have said. He is an expert when it comes to Yuji Horii after all.

That's far more. I've never seen anything on DQ1-3. But it's obviously tied together.

You're supposed to say something like:  *clears throat* Ahem, and that's about the size of it.  *cough* *drinks water* I haven't read anything either *looks around, smiles as no one notices the sweat beads pouring down*

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2 minutes ago, ignasia said:

You're supposed to say something like:  *clears throat* Ahem, and that's about the size of it.  *cough* *drinks water* I haven't read anything either *looks around, smiles as no one notices the sweat beads pouring down*

THANK YOU! This is the response I was expecting from Platty. He needs to get his act together.

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13 minutes ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:

THANK YOU! This is the response I was expecting from Platty. He needs to get his act together.

It's like he's suddenly becoming...serious...you don't think he's begun his manstration cycle and a mid-life crisis do you?

Edited by ignasia

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10 minutes ago, ignasia said:

It's like he's suddenly becoming...serious...you don't think he's begun his manstration cycle and a mid-life crisis do you?

If he ends up buying a motorcycle or a sports car of some kind then yes.

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It's like he's suddenly becoming...serious...you don't think he's begun his manstration cycle and a mid-life crisis do you?
My mid-life crisis began today in the middle of an annoying class when our marketing director showed up with a professional photographer for marketing photos. The dude said, "There's too much going on here, I don't even know what to shoot."

Welcome to my life.

Oh, and this was ~10 minutes after the AC went out.

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15 minutes ago, Plattym3 said:

My mid-life crisis began today in the middle of an annoying class when our marketing director showed up with a professional photographer for marketing photos. The dude said, "There's too much going on here, I don't even know what to shoot."

Welcome to my life.

Oh, and this was ~10 minutes after the AC went out.

Sounds like a blast of hot air, straight to the face, in the heat of the moment, at the end of the summer, in a town by the equator.

Hope you get that breath of fresh air soon.

Edited by ignasia

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Sounds like a blast of hot air, straight to the face, in the heat of the moment, at the end of the summer, in a town by the equator.
Hope you get that breath of fresh air soon.
More like a hot flash
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Well damn, THAT didn't take long. Within 2 hours they'd tweeted out photos from this morning. Top right is from my class. 1540938b027d464595c74901cc6b6236.jpg

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On 10/25/2019 at 3:11 PM, ignasia said:

I've never read or recall any interview suggesting planning in advance.  It's rather difficult to do so, unless you already write the main storyline first, and work out the specifics for that game first, then work on the prequels/lead-in.  Horii just patched DQ1 together initially as a pet project he presented to Enix in a contest, where his work was chosen, and he expanded it into what we know as Dragon Quest.  That suggests there were no grander ambitions.  He was a huge fan of Wizardry and Ultima, and as he's stated in numerous interviews, thought they weren't very accessible or approachable.  Thus his idea for DQ1, taking elements from both, combining them, and making a very easy to get into, intuitive game design with the same basic premise: role playing mechanics and save the world from the evil menace...plus save a princess, literally.

DQII, he barely spent time finalizing anything after the ship.  He was too busy co-ordinating with Shonen Jump after a friend suggested helping his series out through Shonen Jump promotions.  So everything post-ship has minimal story, no real story direction (he clearly wrote bits, but they were obviously hurried), and no play testing to manage enemy difficulty values (and really the story direction to assure players would likely walk into the right enemies at the right time, or be foolhardy and rush to a later area before being told to, and risk death).

That Shonen Jump push is what assured success, as DQ1 sold poorly at first (it was a success by general standards, now as then, but it wasn't the runaway success it would be after Shonen Jump's promotion for DQ2, spurring on DQ1 sales from like 100k to 1.5m, and upon DQ2's launch, the first truly successful RPG launch in Japan that helped pave the way for Final Fantasy being a runaway success).

So no, the chance DQ3 was written and crafted already, with 1 and 2 being the lead-ins is almost an impossibility given the history, and how hard Horii worked going straight into DQ2 after 1.  There's just too much in DQ3 to make that happen.  The writing is about 30~40x that of DQ2 in real terms.  There are 4x as many NPCs in the first world alone, nevermind the extra text related to core story points, and the NPCs in Alefgard, and the writing for the class change and patty's party planning place, and the bank, and other features.  The amount of in-battle text with the spell expansion to nearly 10x what was in DQ2.  The amount of menu bits, the equipment.  There's just a lot more text written for the game in names, etc.

Plus the team for DQ1, then 2, then 3 just grew a lot.

It's possible DQ3 was an ultimate dream, to eventually become realized.  Much like the King Arthur Action RPG Sakaguchi set out to make for Square, but had to cancel it in favour of Final Fantasy as the company was going under, and they needed a final attempt at success (and he's even suggested that because of Dragon Quest's popularity, Final Fantasy was able to have the success it has, so he's definitely acknowledged Horii-san, though I can't find that interview anymore).  That King Arthur game was reworked later on to become Seiken Densetsu.  So what we know as Mana, is in fact the precursor to Final Fantasy, never fully realized, and most of the code for that game was passed on to SD2, or Secret of Mana, as the Gameboy just couldn't handle the type of programming and story depth the NES could, so they used it as a precursor, a starting point, which would eventually allow them with SoM, to realize the original King Arthur story (thus the Mana Sword in the stone), though a good 60~70% of the game had to be tossed out when they were forced to rebuild SD2 for an SNES cart, as Nintendo trashed the disc system (I forget why).

Anyway, no.  DQ3 if it was an idea, was a simple and basic idea, but I've never found any interview where Horii has ever suggested it was an earlier concept he couldn't realize until later.  One built off the other, and he built DQ2 off of DQ1, and decided to make the 3rd about the past.  As to why DQ3 is a prequel is another matter...maybe he thought it would work better given the title holds so much weight in the original game, and DQ2 kind of strayed a bit off course from that.  So it offers the opportunity, given the historical basis created in both games, to go back and create the legendary hero, as that allows for a grand adventure based on lore.  Though I don't know.

Thanks for the info!

Wow...this REALLY explains why the quality of DQII took a MAJOR nosedive once you acquired the ship. I knew there had to be a valid reason and you've just revealed it.

I'm glad they finally got their act together for DQIII regardless. Third time really was a charm.

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