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ErdrickRotoLotoOrtega

One thing I found absolutely jarring with Dragon Quest IX: The 3D and 2D NPC's

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I replayed (but didn't complete) DQIX last year and had forgotten a rather huge detail: some of the characters in the game are 3D while others are in 2D. Seeing them together was rather jarring. I had forgotten all about this detail. It was even more jarring since I had grown so used to the DQVII 3DS style.

Did anyone else find this jarring?

Also, has it ever been explained why they did this? Was this a time-saving/data-saving measure or just a way to distinguish important characters from less important ones? Thing is--Patty started out as 3D and eventually became 2D in the tavern which I also found to be jarring, so I don't know.

I used to love Dragon Quest IX and, while I still love it, I find myself liking the game less and less on playthroughs. I think I'm just finally coming to the realization that that game is rather short (if you just do the story campaign), really lacking a soul without party chat and felt more like they were trying to make an updated Dragon Quest III (seriously, the party system is very similar as well as the recruitment system) but wound up with some sort of a hybrid of several Dragon Quest games.

That game seems to put about 80% of its investment into the post game...something I don't like. Sure, all the Dragon Quest games have some hefty post game content, but DQIX feels as if its main draw is the post game content. I didn't like that then and like it less now. There should have been more devotion to the main story. You don't even get a chance to FLY until the post game, for crying out loud.

But I'm very WAY off my original topic: why the jarring mixture of 3D/2D NPC's?

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I found it a little jarring, but not a real suspension of disbelief breaker.

Mostly the 3D-2D split indicates the difference between Important Characters and Unimportant Characters.

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It probably also has to do with gameplay limitations and how many on screen poly to sprite count the DS could handle.

Note the lag in a lot of places.  The DS remakes of 4~6 would lag heavily in certain towns if enough NPCs were present on both screens.  DQ9 only uses the top screen for the game, bottom for maps/data, yet it still has tons of spots with lag if enough NPCs are present, or just off camera, so there models are loaded into RAM and rendering even when we don't see them.  It's a lot more load heavy to use 3D models than 2D models, especially for those ARM based CPUs.  They're essentially APU's as well, so double the processing load.

So while jarring, the most likely reason is just pure processing power, and keeping the 3D models to, as you both surmised, to highlight significant characters.

 

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36 minutes ago, ignasia said:

It probably also has to do with gameplay limitations and how many on screen poly to sprite count the DS could handle.

Note the lag in a lot of places.  The DS remakes of 4~6 would lag heavily in certain towns if enough NPCs were present on both screens.  DQ9 only uses the top screen for the game, bottom for maps/data, yet it still has tons of spots with lag if enough NPCs are present, or just off camera, so there models are loaded into RAM and rendering even when we don't see them.  It's a lot more load heavy to use 3D models than 2D models, especially for those ARM based CPUs.  They're essentially APU's as well, so double the processing load.

So while jarring, the most likely reason is just pure processing power, and keeping the 3D models to, as you both surmised, to highlight significant characters.

 

Thanks for the detailed answer! :thumbsup:

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You know, I heard this mentioned recently on a podcast and thought "I never even noticed".

Maybe I did back in the day of a couple hundred hours of playing, but not a detail that stuck.

Seems silly now that we're in the age of basically unlimited game size and regular gigabyte updates pushed out on a whim. Surely the DQIX remake will be much better!

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1 hour ago, Plattym3 said:

Surely the DQIX remake will be much better!

And hopefully the remake will correct the same issues that I have too about the game. Mainly these fact that it's indeed short if you focus on the story itself, no party chat, no actual party members. 

I too have the feeling they were trying to emulate DQIII, with a bit of MMO-esque things, and the result is clearly not my cup of tea. DQIII was and still is great when you keep in mind it's a game from the late 80s. DQIX being a game from the late 2000s makes it bad imo. Like the gale has qualities, the soundtrack and some NPCs, along with a solid gameplay, but everything concerning the party was just bad imo, especially after playing DQIV (even without party chat on DS) and V (bad characters but party chat makes the game much better). 

So yeah, I hope they'll fix that if/when they redo DQIX. 

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11 hours ago, Plattym3 said:

Surely the DQIX remake will be much better!

 

11 hours ago, Plattym3 said:

Surely

We can only hope.

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I find it kind of funny that some NPCs will start off in 3D, and then turn 2D when they stop being important to the plot. Not that it isn't jarring and a odd flaw in the game but It's interesting to play through the game with that quirk in mind.

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10 hours ago, SlimeVagrant said:

I find it kind of funny that some NPCs will start off in 3D, and then turn 2D when they stop being important to the plot. Not that it isn't jarring and a odd flaw in the game but It's interesting to play through the game with that quirk in mind.

The 3D Models allow the characters to articulate and emote, which is useful in two contexts: combat and cutscenes. Outside of that, they have no real use and take up a lot of processing power besides, so I wouldn't call the 3D-2D switch a flaw so much as an idiosyncrasy of what DQIX is trying to accomplish.

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On 10/19/2019 at 2:34 AM, Plattym3 said:

You know, I heard this mentioned recently on a podcast and thought "I never even noticed".

Maybe I did back in the day of a couple hundred hours of playing, but not a detail that stuck.

Seems silly now that we're in the age of basically unlimited game size and regular gigabyte updates pushed out on a whim. Surely the DQIX remake will be much better!

Is this Dragon Quest IX remake happening? I've seen a LOT of you mentioning it lately.

I hope it's remastered to look like DQVII 3DS, though I wouldn't be opposed to a DQXI treatment.

The remake needs PARTY chat and more STORY characters available to join.

On 10/19/2019 at 4:07 AM, Xiggy said:

And hopefully the remake will correct the same issues that I have too about the game. Mainly these fact that it's indeed short if you focus on the story itself, no party chat, no actual party members. 

I too have the feeling they were trying to emulate DQIII, with a bit of MMO-esque things, and the result is clearly not my cup of tea. DQIII was and still is great when you keep in mind it's a game from the late 80s. DQIX being a game from the late 2000s makes it bad imo. Like the gale has qualities, the soundtrack and some NPCs, along with a solid gameplay, but everything concerning the party was just bad imo, especially after playing DQIV (even without party chat on DS) and V (bad characters but party chat makes the game much better). 

So yeah, I hope they'll fix that if/when they redo DQIX. 

And party chat. We need more important characters to join, party chat, a longer story campaign with less emphasis on post game, etc. Seriously, DQIX is 20% story and 80% post game, it seems. They need a better balance there. The story feels like an afterthought as a result.

On 10/20/2019 at 5:25 AM, SlimeVagrant said:

I find it kind of funny that some NPCs will start off in 3D, and then turn 2D when they stop being important to the plot. Not that it isn't jarring and a odd flaw in the game but It's interesting to play through the game with that quirk in mind.

It bugs me in the sense that DQIV-VIII have a wealth of memorable characters and IX has a generic party that is trying to mimic DQIII.

Edited by ErdrickRotoLotoOrtega
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It bugs me in the sense that DQIV-VIII have a wealth of memorable characters and IX has a generic party that is trying to mimic DQIII.
Sorry, Tapatalk isn't letting me quote the correct part, but to clarify... absolutely nothing has been officially said about DQIX. But even DQXI got an upgraded version 2 years after Japanese release. It'll happen. Things I'm certain of:

1. Death
2. Taxes
3. More Marvel movies
4. More Disney "live" versions of animated movies
5. DQIX remake

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7 minutes ago, Plattym3 said:

Sorry, Tapatalk isn't letting me quote the correct part, but to clarify... absolutely nothing has been officially said about DQIX. But even DQXI got an upgraded version 2 years after Japanese release. It'll happen. Things I'm certain of:

1. Death
2. Taxes
3. More Marvel movies
4. More Disney "live" versions of animated movies
5. DQIX remake

LOL! Nice list.

How would you like the remake to be handled? Obviously 3DS is out so should they attempt an HD version of what DQVII 3DS did or should they go "Full Dragon Quest XI" and overhaul the entire thing?

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LOL! Nice list.
How would you like the remake to be handled? Obviously 3DS is out so should they attempt an HD version of what DQVII 3DS did or should they go "Full Dragon Quest XI" and overhaul the entire thing?
I'd like it more like DQVII personally. DQXI is nice, but it seems like it might take too long and making textures for all those random outfits and weapons and character customization might be too much. Keep the core the same, upgrade it to 3DS quality on Switch.

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11 minutes ago, Plattym3 said:
13 minutes ago, ErdrickRotoLotoOrtega said:
LOL! Nice list.
How would you like the remake to be handled? Obviously 3DS is out so should they attempt an HD version of what DQVII 3DS did or should they go "Full Dragon Quest XI" and overhaul the entire thing?

I'd like it more like DQVII personally. DQXI is nice, but it seems like it might take too long and making textures for all those random outfits and weapons and character customization might be too much. Keep the core the same, upgrade it to 3DS quality on Switch.

As per usual, you and I are in full agreement.

Truth be told, I tend to favor that DQ VII 3D style and would still love to play DQXI in that style if ever it was localized.

I really want party chat. They can create a script for each member based on gender, job and some applied "personality" prerequisite or something. I see no reason why they couldn't.

Aquila should also be a staple party member, if you ask me. And I'm not talking about the way you get him post game--I'm talking story mode and EARLY. I don't mind them bloating the story mode up. In fact--I want them to. I hate how the story mode is such an afterthought in DQIX. It's a decent story in need of some retooling.

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The DQIX remake should be built on Unreal in the style of XI Unreal. I say this because XI is based on X in terms of mechanics, and X's mechanics are basically just improved versions of IX's. If it weren't for the fact that Unreal is clearly much more of a graphical powerhouse than X's engine, I'd just say build it on top of X.

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