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RyuKisargi

Mini-rant - 2D mode.

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Just... why do you have to restart an ENTIRE BLOODY CHAPTER to switch to/from 2D mode?

I like the VA and 3D goodness too much! But the 2D turns it into a freaking SNES game, which is goodness too!

And when I go to switch... "Oh, you haven't finished up yet? NOPE, GOTTA REDO THE PAST COUPLE HOURS, NOOB!"

 

:(

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It is annoying. I’m disappointed they didn’t leave it as a seamless transition from 3D to 2D like the 3DS version has. That was really jarring in the Switch version first time I tried to swap to 2D mode.

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I figured they did that because of map differences. I didn't want to bother with the chapter reset stuff so I am just doing an entire playthrough of it later.

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Playing all in 2D & never really thinking I'd ever switch back and forth, it's no big deal, but yeah, kinda sucks!

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2 hours ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:

It is annoying. I’m disappointed they didn’t leave it as a seamless transition from 3D to 2D like the 3DS version has. That was really jarring in the Switch version first time I tried to swap to 2D mode.

To do that would have required completely rebuilding the entire 2D game to match the PS4 3D.  I thought they might do that, but that is a LOT of work considering just how different they are.

Even the battle system changes remain the same, so 2D is a completely distinct experience when it comes to how certain Pep Powers work, damage output, max stats, etc.

So to keep things kosher, and to avoid complications, this is the compromise they made without sacrificing extra time.  I'd say they did a very good job with what they worked with, plus the system is superior.

Matt's rant is a little bit off, as you keep your levels, items, equipment, skill point distribution (unless the switch is to a point in the game where there is a difference in the skill tree, or where certain story skills wouldn't be available).  Meaning you can blow through the same section in 10~15 minutes.

Cutscenes in 2D are shorter on average, and dialogue is text based, so it's not hard to mash the button a bit to get through them.  The world is faster to traverse, and given you're likely already at the level where Holy Water and/or Holy Protection work, it's easy to avoid random battles.  3D, you can just skip the cutscenes altogether, and running/horseback riding at a charge allows quickly moving through to the end of the previous chapter.

The other positive is that this version then works like a NG+ mode, only one where you pick your point of return.

====

Thinking about it, I guess the reason for the lack of change is that chapter indicators are at the end of said chapter, not the beginning.  Which I do get, though it would have made sense to start them at that point.  I have noticed if you end a chapter and switch over, you will start almost at the exact point you were in before.  It's just a matter of switching after that critical marker.  Before and yeah, you'll have to redo a bit.

Edited by ignasia

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The not so seamless way of switching between 2D mode and 3D mode is the reason why I've decided to play the game entirely in 3D mode first. And then afterwards start a "New Game+" file in 2D mode. The only question I have is that will the levels of your party members transfer over when switching from 3D mode to 2D mode? Or will my party members be in their default levels when I get them (like how when you get Erik as your first party member, he was level 5)?

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4 minutes ago, Dakhil said:

The not so seamless way of switching between 2D mode and 3D mode is the reason why I've decided to play the game entirely in 3D mode first. And then afterwards start a "New Game+" file in 2D mode. The only question I have is that will the levels of your party members transfer over when switching from 3D mode to 2D mode? Or will my party members be in their default levels when I get them (like how when you get Erik as your first party member, he was level 5)?

Levels transfer.  So if Serena is level 70, she'll start in 2D at level 70.  No way to change this.

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Levels transfer.  So if Serena is level 70, she'll start in 2D at level 70.  No way to change this.
That's fine with me. But then again, maybe it's because I didn't mind it when playing Xenoblade Chronicle's New Game+.

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I'm glad someone made this topic. I agree 100%.

This was downright disappointing. It's so disappointing that I refuse to play 2D mode at all in my first file. I will do a 2D-only playthrough on a separate file.

THANKFULLY, I saved to a second file the very first time I ever switched to 2D mode so I didn't lose any progress.

To be honest, I find this ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. It absolutely defeats some of the purpose of the dual 3D/2D nature and makes it pointless to play it that way. So, because of this major obstacle, I'm going to simply do one 3D  playthrough and one 2D playthrough.

This is one decision made with this great game that I must say is STUPID. Not just annoying--STUPID. I'm sorry, but it is. Who would want to play the game like that? Tedious--not fun.

Anyway, I'm glad you brought this up. This was a monumental blunder that needed to be addressed.

12 hours ago, ignasia said:

To do that would have required completely rebuilding the entire 2D game to match the PS4 3D.  I thought they might do that, but that is a LOT of work considering just how different they are.

Even the battle system changes remain the same, so 2D is a completely distinct experience when it comes to how certain Pep Powers work, damage output, max stats, etc.

So to keep things kosher, and to avoid complications, this is the compromise they made without sacrificing extra time.  I'd say they did a very good job with what they worked with, plus the system is superior.

Matt's rant is a little bit off, as you keep your levels, items, equipment, skill point distribution (unless the switch is to a point in the game where there is a difference in the skill tree, or where certain story skills wouldn't be available).  Meaning you can blow through the same section in 10~15 minutes.

Cutscenes in 2D are shorter on average, and dialogue is text based, so it's not hard to mash the button a bit to get through them.  The world is faster to traverse, and given you're likely already at the level where Holy Water and/or Holy Protection work, it's easy to avoid random battles.  3D, you can just skip the cutscenes altogether, and running/horseback riding at a charge allows quickly moving through to the end of the previous chapter.

The other positive is that this version then works like a NG+ mode, only one where you pick your point of return.

====

Thinking about it, I guess the reason for the lack of change is that chapter indicators are at the end of said chapter, not the beginning.  Which I do get, though it would have made sense to start them at that point.  I have noticed if you end a chapter and switch over, you will start almost at the exact point you were in before.  It's just a matter of switching after that critical marker.  Before and yeah, you'll have to redo a bit.

Then why couldn't they have simply set it up in a manner which it starts you at your last save point? Why this chapter system? Certainly starting at the last save point couldn't cause such an issue.

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Yeah it turned me off from the feature all together. My time in Tickington is my only exposure to it now and that's fine. I started a new file in 2D but decided the 3D aspects of the game are the real selling point and make the game what it is. Plus I've been playing too much 2D Dragon Quest this year anyways.

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Anyway, I'd like to put a positive spin here after my rant: 2D Mode deserves the praise it gets. It IS a SFC Dragon Quest game by all counts. What I love is the bit of VII pedigree they throw in with the 8 directional walking/breaking pots and vases.

The 2D mode is so great that, apart from the 3D cutscenes, it easily looks as if it could pass for a lost SFC Dragon Quest game.

What little I've played of the 2D mode is VERY impressive, indeed.

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20 minutes ago, ErdrickRotoLotoOrtega said:

Anyway, I'd like to put a positive spin here after my rant: 2D Mode deserves the praise it gets. It IS a SFC Dragon Quest game by all counts. What I love is the bit of VII pedigree they throw in with the 8 directional walking/breaking pots and vases.

The 2D mode is so great that, apart from the 3D cutscenes, it easily looks as if it could pass for a lost SFC Dragon Quest game.

What little I've played of the 2D mode is VERY impressive, indeed.

Oh hell yeah I'll absolutely play the game in 2D down the line. I wanted to see the new stuff in 3D.

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@ErdrickRotoLotoOrtega Maybe they had issues working out kinks with carry over at the same save point, and didn't feel like spending extra time ironing those out, and preferred to work on other things due to time constraints and the number of people involved?  That's often the reason for oversights on some of the most glaringly obvious loopholes in programs.  Some minor detail that causes a bug due to some conflict in the data.

I would clearly be speculating, but it could be as simple as the placement and story data cues that are distinct between the PS4 and 3DS versions, that they couldn't rectify in how they're written and cataloged, and there are too many instances to account for, especially as the games progress.  Where they could not account for the myriad distinct elements between save files, and found it easier to just pick particular story points that share the same check data in both, and just carry over certain data.

I VERY highly doubt it's an oversight, and they didn't think of it, given how it works in the 3DS, that would likely be the one thing they would attempt to make work first.

We also know the PS4 code is carried over as is.  Same with the 2D mode from the 3DS.  They didn't alter anything for either game's gameplay, and I doubt they messed with the way save data was handled.  Only added in check lists for new content.

I'm sure anyone who visits here and programs at all could offer more insight.  @AustNerevar Don't you code?  I cannot think of anyone else who is a regular.

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37 minutes ago, ignasia said:

@ErdrickRotoLotoOrtega Maybe they had issues working out kinks with carry over at the same save point, and didn't feel like spending extra time ironing those out, and preferred to work on other things due to time constraints and the number of people involved?  That's often the reason for oversights on some of the most glaringly obvious loopholes in programs.  Some minor detail that causes a bug due to some conflict in the data.

I would clearly be speculating, but it could be as simple as the placement and story data cues that are distinct between the PS4 and 3DS versions, that they couldn't rectify in how they're written and cataloged, and there are too many instances to account for, especially as the games progress.  Where they could not account for the myriad distinct elements between save files, and found it easier to just pick particular story points that share the same check data in both, and just carry over certain data.

I VERY highly doubt it's an oversight, and they didn't think of it, given how it works in the 3DS, that would likely be the one thing they would attempt to make work first.

We also know the PS4 code is carried over as is.  Same with the 2D mode from the 3DS.  They didn't alter anything for either game's gameplay, and I doubt they messed with the way save data was handled.  Only added in check lists for new content.

I'm sure anyone who visits here and programs at all could offer more insight.  @AustNerevar Don't you code?  I cannot think of anyone else who is a regular.

The problem is that I don't see how anyone would find it ideal to bother swapping at ALL with this sort of problem in place. Seems more trouble than it's worth, to be honest.

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Since you haven't really done it, I will say you're wrong.  It's not a hassle by any stretch.

2D mode cutscenes are very short by comparison.  Maps are easy to traverse, and the level requirements for Holy Water to work are fairly low for the bulk of enemies.  So getting from place to place is easy.

3D mode cutscenes can be skipped entirely, and with running/riding, it doesn't take long to get to the specific place you need to be.

Literally should take like 5 minutes to get back in most cases.

====

However you have the option to:

1) Raid old treasures, so you can seed farm, gold farm, get access to rare materials early game with one-time access points, gain second/third sets of one-time weapons/armour.

2) Can abuse the dupe system to get certain one-time story equipment, that carries over, to double up, or heck, abuse it for certain seeds (like the Super Seeds, which in this game give +20 to a stat).

3) Get to see the special scene for defeating the Black Dragon under Heliodor.  Shame this is the only one.

4) Get to play from early game with the Sabrecat as a mode of transportation.

5) Rebattle rough boss fights in Super Strong Monsters to curb stomp them in much the same way you can in Chrono Trigger.

6) Maybe you just want to replay the other mode, but want to easy and sweet...just to see what it's like.

====

This system is like Chrono Trigger's, only instead of forced to the start, you get to pick ANY major story marker prior to where you're at before the "Switch."  So you can just rehash certain battles if you want to.  Or relive certain story points, without just using the scene recording system, but to actually replay that section.

Edited by ignasia

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I can honestly see an easy-ish transition at campsites, at least being able to switch there would be much better.

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25 minutes ago, ignasia said:

Since you haven't really done it, I will say you're wrong.  It's not a hassle by any stretch.

2D mode cutscenes are very short by comparison.  Maps are easy to traverse, and the level requirements for Holy Water to work are fairly low for the bulk of enemies.  So getting from place to place is easy.

3D mode cutscenes can be skipped entirely, and with running/riding, it doesn't take long to get to the specific place you need to be.

Literally should take like 5 minutes to get back in most cases.

====

However you have the option to:

1) Raid old treasures, so you can seed farm, gold farm, get access to rare materials early game with one-time access points, gain second/third sets of one-time weapons/armour.

2) Can abuse the dupe system to get certain one-time story equipment, that carries over, to double up, or heck, abuse it for certain seeds (like the Super Seeds, which in this game give +20 to a stat).

3) Get to see the special scene for defeating the Black Dragon under Heliodor.  Shame this is the only one.

4) Get to play from early game with the Sabrecat as a mode of transportation.

5) Rebattle rough boss fights in Super Strong Monsters to curb stomp them in much the same way you can in Chrono Trigger.

6) Maybe you just want to replay the other mode, but want to easy and sweet...just to see what it's like.

====

This system is like Chrono Trigger's, only instead of forced to the start, you get to pick ANY major story marker prior to where you're at before the "Switch."  So you can just rehash certain battles if you want to.  Or relive certain story points, without just using the scene recording system, but to actually replay that section.

I’m not a fan of how Chrono Trigger handles new game +. The Bravely games on the 3DS had the right idea for it, allowing you to choose what you transfer over to a new file via a check list. It was fun starting the game off at square one again but instantly have access to all the job classes. It made things interesting.

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18 minutes ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:

I’m not a fan of how Chrono Trigger handles new game +. The Bravely games on the 3DS had the right idea for it, allowing you to choose what you transfer over to a new file via a check list. It was fun starting the game off at square one again but instantly have access to all the job classes. It made things interesting.

Oh, I agree.  Falcom, whenever they do a NG+, take the Bamco route started with Tales of Symphonia.  Where you get a point system and you spend the points based on how well you handled the game, to determine what carries over to the next one.  I kind of like that one too.  Since it means spending time actually mastering the game to get everything to carry over (or nearly so).

That said, it's the first time it's been in a DQ game, and it does have aspects unique to this game.  One that is also a NG+ by technicality I think, not design.  As in I think they were forced to do this to allow transfer, and simply let it ride.  Since it doesn't really force a New Game, just a Switch with any amount of backtracking at the player's discretion.  It's just Chrono Trigger and even Xenoblade Chronicles, functions in a similar fashion. 

I do wish I could restart with levels at 1 if that were possible, and allow resetting of certain data, like Quests.

Though perhaps we'll see another system like this, with more time to process how it should work, so more refinement.

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1 hour ago, ignasia said:

Oh, I agree.  Falcom, whenever they do a NG+, take the Bamco route started with Tales of Symphonia.  Where you get a point system and you spend the points based on how well you handled the game, to determine what carries over to the next one.  I kind of like that one too.  Since it means spending time actually mastering the game to get everything to carry over (or nearly so).

That said, it's the first time it's been in a DQ game, and it does have aspects unique to this game.  One that is also a NG+ by technicality I think, not design.  As in I think they were forced to do this to allow transfer, and simply let it ride.  Since it doesn't really force a New Game, just a Switch with any amount of backtracking at the player's discretion.  It's just Chrono Trigger and even Xenoblade Chronicles, functions in a similar fashion. 

I do wish I could restart with levels at 1 if that were possible, and allow resetting of certain data, like Quests.

Though perhaps we'll see another system like this, with more time to process how it should work, so more refinement.

Yeah, I’m glad Falcom does that for NG+. When I started a NG+ for Cold Steel 1 on my PS4 to see the first few chapters on the system (long story short, transferred my Vita save file to my PS4) I was surprised to see the point system allowed me to pick and choose. I did most everything I could while playing, so the only things I couldn’t access were a few things, but I was able to get my levels and equipment/items over for a Nightmare run.

It was also great to see by playing fully through Cold Steel 1 I was able to get a number of bonuses when I transferred the complete data to Cold Steel 2 once I started it up. A game that ACTUALLY rewards you for playing through the previous entry and doing the side activities? Why don’t more series try to do that?!

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I really would've preferred it if you got the choice to either do it by a certain chapter or just a seamless transition. I hated it the first time and I honestly just stuck with the 3D mode because of three reasons: The transition was jarring to me, and if I remember correctly, you can't skip cutscenes in 2D mode? Idk if I'm remembering wrong but when I switched back to 2D mode briefly, I couldn't skip any cutscenes and it really bugged me. I also never really got to play the game when it initially came out on the PS4, so I kind of wanted to play it in 3D first as well. Also I just got too lazy to switch back in the end since I was already far enough in the 3D mode.

At least I can go back to the very beginning of the game at insanely overpowered levels with super armour and weapons and destroy everything

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You can't outright skip cutscenes in 2D, no. But since there's very little in the way of "cinematography" in 2D mode, they are much shorter and could easily be passed through just by rapidly tapping A/ZL/up/down/left/right.

Edited by Erdrick The Hero
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I will have to say that for the moment now, I am in 2D mode. I switched when I got the Magic Key.

 

IS BOOTIFUL ;-;

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I'm in my 2D run right now and while I'm having a lot of fun there are some annoyances I have. Not all of them are big, but here's a few that have gotten to me the most.

1. No costume selection. An absolute waste to make this a 3D mode only thing. There was no reason not to include this.

2. Removing of certain quality of life features. You can't just open the menu and hit Y to handy all heal, you can't press start to have that command menu, you can't warp to camps, etc.

3. The random encounters are fine, and expected for this mode, but it's incredibly irritating when you need a certain monster mount and it won't spawn. Like I shouldn't have to do 6-7 battles to find the monster I need. They should always spawn around the areas they are necessary in.

Those aren't all of them, but they're what's come to mind. I also agree that the switching back and forth only at chapters thing is annoying. My initial plan was to do one full run and swap back and forth but I immediately dropped that idea when I realized how it worked. Don't get me wrong, I love 2D mode and am so happy they included it, but I feel like it could have been better than it was in certain areas.

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21 hours ago, Kaeneth said:

I'm in my 2D run right now and while I'm having a lot of fun there are some annoyances I have. Not all of them are big, but here's a few that have gotten to me the most.

1. No costume selection. An absolute waste to make this a 3D mode only thing. There was no reason not to include this.

2. Removing of certain quality of life features. You can't just open the menu and hit Y to handy all heal, you can't press start to have that command menu, you can't warp to camps, etc.

3. The random encounters are fine, and expected for this mode, but it's incredibly irritating when you need a certain monster mount and it won't spawn. Like I shouldn't have to do 6-7 battles to find the monster I need. They should always spawn around the areas they are necessary in.

Those aren't all of them, but they're what's come to mind. I also agree that the switching back and forth only at chapters thing is annoying. My initial plan was to do one full run and swap back and forth but I immediately dropped that idea when I realized how it worked. Don't get me wrong, I love 2D mode and am so happy they included it, but I feel like it could have been better than it was in certain areas.

1. I agree.

2. Most of these are unnecessary and redundant. I would like to be able to quickly Handy Heal All though. Being able to zoom to camps in 2D would completely break the game balance as the world is much smaller in scale.

3. This hasn't been much of an issue for me. 9/10 times I encounter the necessary monster before I even need to use it. But I can see how some bad RNG could make this incredibly frustrating.

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7 hours ago, Erdrick The Hero said:

3. This hasn't been much of an issue for me. 9/10 times I encounter the necessary monster before I even need to use it. But I can see how some bad RNG could make this incredibly frustrating.

I have no evidence to support this, but from my personal experience I have gotten the monster almost every time I tried to interact with the specific spot that they use. Trying to use a spot without the monster might increase changes on finding it in battle.

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