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Stuner50

Hmp! The Dragon Quest fanbase has a bunch of meanies...

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57 minutes ago, AustNerevar said:


 

 


Don't forget the side quest where you literally go to the moon and fight alien invaders on their UFO to save bunny girls that live on said moon.

No, I am not making any of that up.

 

Bunny Girl Moon Paradise!  Are tickets available?

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1 hour ago, ignasia said:

Bunny Girl Moon Paradise!  Are tickets available?

Maybe one of them will offer to change your name for you... 🤔

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6 minutes ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:

Maybe one of them will offer to change your name for you... 🤔

What?  Are you saying you don't like my spendiferous, galactic level superfluous and stupendous name!

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20 minutes ago, ignasia said:

What?  Are you saying you don't like my spendiferous, galactic level superfluous and stupendous name!

We need to rename everyone in the space party as Gogo so it gets really confusing.

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17 minutes ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:

We need to rename everyone in the space party as Gogo so it gets really confusing.

Do we get a multicoloured full body shawl and drapery?

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Oh I forgot to mention you go to space with Kandar, to save the Moon Girls. Its a fantastic series of quests.

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Different planets is a yes for me (although one could argue that different worlds are kinda like different planets). Space travel or just different worlds unrelated to each other could be a lot of fun, I agree.


From what I gathered, Joker 3 basically takes place on an interstellar arc/group of flying islands taking humanity to a new home.
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14 minutes ago, ignasia said:

Do we get a multicoloured full body shawl and drapery?

Yes. Or, for those who prefer it, you can have a fancy cape to wear over your regular outfit instead.

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4 hours ago, AustNerevar said:

Don't forget the side quest where you literally go to the moon and fight alien invaders on their UFO to save bunny girls that live on said moon.

I'm not forgetting anything since I never played the game. But heck, this quest sounds so surreal that it has to be true. 

Lo, I hope one day we will be allowed to grasp this fabled game and enjoy it in Frenc- err I mean in English. Well, in lots of language would be the best. 

4 hours ago, AustNerevar said:

 

 

Edited by Xiggy

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Here's an unpopular opinion I have.

I strongly prefer the DQ2 soundtrack over the DQ3 one. In fact, the DQ3 overworked theme is second from bottom on my list.

And then I go about my day.

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49 minutes ago, redneckpride4ever said:

Here's an unpopular opinion I have.

I strongly prefer the DQ2 soundtrack over the DQ3 one.

I’m in the same boat as you. DQ2 has my favorite soundtrack of the Erdrick trilogy.

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4 hours ago, Stuner50 said:

@ignasia im very curious, would you play XII if it had a space/steampunk setting?

Yes, I would play it.

If that's what Horii wanted to do, since it's his baby, I would give it a go.  I might hold my nose a tad, but I'd certainly play it.  Though if it does, it would be a setting, and likely the fantasy setting would be present, but let's say he did make it a full on space setting (which is actually distinct from Steampunk, which is a particular flavour of sci-fi)...sure, though again, I would hold my nose a tad, as it would feel a bit out of place in the DQ universe.

Now steampunk, if it were not just sci-fi, and in space, but also steampunk.  I would still play it, and feel that not matter what anyone says, it wouldn't look like Dragon Quest, even if it played like Dragon Quest.  I'm sure it wouldn't sound like Dragon Quest either, as the necessary shift in musical composition to fit the scenery and style, in particular for Steampunk, is so wildly unique to the standard flavour and format, it would be very vexing.

Even if I found it to be a great game, and thoroughly enjoyed the experience, I already know I would NOT classify it as a great Dragon Quest experience, no matter what label is pasted on the box.  It would just be a great game that happened to be called Dragon Quest.

Now I guess they would need space dragons, and more metal dragon types.  There's only one so far, and it's...kind of steampunkish, but more in the sense it fits 1950's design aesthetic, not true steampunk, which has a darker theme, more layers and additions, and more fantastical elements added to it...though I guess Metal Dragon could be called a proto-steampunk.

If the series simply took that direction and maintained it, then at that point Dragon Quest is just Dragon Quest, regardless of setting.  So I would say 3 games using that as the main setting would satisfy my need to feel comfortable calling that format for Dragon Quest...Dragon Quest.

2 hours ago, redneckpride4ever said:

Here's an unpopular opinion I have.

I strongly prefer the DQ2 soundtrack over the DQ3 one. In fact, the DQ3 overworked theme is second from bottom on my list.

And then I go about my day.

That's not particularly unpopular.  I've rarely met anyone who didn't feel it's one of the strongest OSTs in the series.  Myself included.  I prefer most of the tracks to 1 and 3, despite enjoying both compositions.

4 hours ago, Plattym3 said:

From what I gathered, Joker 3 basically takes place on an interstellar arc/group of flying islands taking humanity to a new home.

 

That's just like New Parma in Phantasy Star III.  A fantasy world living in a spaceship, heading to a new planet, complete with mysticism, the evil dark force that can meld with both biological creatures and machines, swords, magic, bows, guns, and bazooka's.

Edited by ignasia

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Honestly, ignasia your reaction was similar to the reaction i had to Dragon Quest IX back in 2009, i was disapointed of the lack of party members but i gave it a go and it was actually pretty fun and the NPCs were good enough even through it isnt as good as IV, VIII or XI (my favourites) it was fun for what it was.

Sometimes getting diferent mainline games isn't that bad, not at the level of FF but a little change even if it's just setting wouldn't be too bad, i mean i dont know we're at 11 mainline entries so trying something new for one game doesn't sound THAT horrible to me, i really dont know how to feel if all the futurE mainline DQs In let's say the next 20 years were the same.

 

And i dont know how a change of setting, plot or tone would make it less of a DQ game, all DQ have the same enemies, weapons, black UI and combat system so as long they keep that it would feel as a DQ game just fine.

Edited by Stuner50
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There is a drastic difference in having party members you create yourself, which was a staple of the defacto Dragon Quest that refined and defined most of the elements we qualify as Dragon Quest, and having a completely different setting.

Having created party members in DQ9 is akin to having a marriage system in Phantasy Star Online.  It's something already done within the series, and something that is a gameplay element, not a thematic aesthetic that creates the allure and feel of a game world.

Having a Phantasy Star game without technological elements but instead a pure fantasy, with a look similar to Link's Awakening Remaster, would be the equivalent of Dragon Quest going from a Fantasy setting to a Steampunk setting.

One is a minor change in the nature of your characters, that has absolutely no impact on the larger narrative, or the vignette structure inherent to Dragon Quest.  Afterall the hero's personality is defined by other characters, whether they be NPCs or story recruited characters.  Essentially DQ9 is a solo game, and it's treated and meant to be a solo game, much as DQ3 is a solo game, and is meant to be treated as such.  This keeps the spirit and flow of the Dragon Quest story and gameplay structure.  It changes nothing.

Steampunk would be a total overhaul.  You'd have to add in munition type weaponry, something never before seen in Dragon Quest.  The generally clean and friendly look of characters would have to be changed to a more wild and erratic mixture of 50's style art deco shapes and form, with more ragged or wild mixtures of cloth and mechanical elements.  Stuff that seems very strung together, unless they take the cleaner high road and pretend it's the rare exception in steampunk where there isn't a degredation in society, and an inherent metal poison keeping things in a degenerating state where nothing moves forward, and people just repurpose old tech and items.  I forget the word, but Steampunk is specifically...dystopian (remembered as I wrote this sentence).  The few times it's not are more modern interpretations to maintain the feel of steampunk without the psychological and sociological elements that maintain a lack of development in stylization and aesthetic...which make absolutely no sense in context, as it requires total magical thinking that somehow society would retain a specific perspective and the lack of development would not circle back and rot over time.

I'm not saying that wouldn't be cool...but that's such a common thing these days, it's refreshing DQ maintains its roots, as that becomes the exception today.  That level of change would require a total overhaul of the battle system.

It wouldn't look right for DQ style attacks, magic, etc. in that setting. It would look off.  FF6 maintains the illusion because it isn't actually steampunk, it just borrows elements from that era...it's proto-steampunk, showcasing the development from the start of a technological world, and one that melds in magic, leading to new directions and designs that are anything BUT steampunk.  Even the capitol of the empire isn't steampunk, it just has a few elements and parallels, but lacks the overall feel and dynamic.  It's "new" while steampunk has the distinct flavour of "old-rehashed-inability to move forward-static time loop," while the empire and world in FF6 felt alive and developing, where it feels like the capitol would shift in look as the technology progressed, as with the rest of the world.  FF7 has a similar aesthetic.  An alive, functioning, burgeoning new world that develops AS the technology develops, or regresses naturally as the technology is destroyed and taken away.  In such a world, the concept of magic as a mystic force that governs nature is not a juxtaposition, but rather a parallel element growing alongside.  This is something inherent to all FF games with technological wonders.

Steampunk games by definition, maintain that feel of mechanical, even in magic.  I can point to Arcanum, a magical world in a steampunk-like universe.  There's also Septerra Core.  The magic as it exists in both games, has a very sciency feel to it.  There is almost no mystical aspect to either of those worlds.  Magic is treated as a byproduct of biological forces or science, or a connection to natural forces that can also be harnessed by science, and the demonstration in how attacks work, have very mechanical elements to this.  This is true for Fallout as well.

Meaning for a Dragon Quest game, placing Gigaslash into that universe would require a reworking of the form and look.  It's too fantastical.  Too magical in style.  Too mystical and unexplainable in form and function.  It's just there, and we accept it's there because it's a fantastic fantasy, magical force that fits with the setting, with a world steeped in magic and forces one cannot rationally explain with scientific endeavour.  It would feel out of place in that world in its current form.  That would also alter the nature of how it's obtained.  It would need something science related, not just a skill tree where you magically just learn a skill via skill point dumping.

The DQ experience would feel out of place and counter to the world structure and the science and mechanic aspects.  That would be hard to justify for me DQ12 being DQ, as it would be the first that requires a total overhaul of everything.  A dropping of literally all conventions, all carry-overs, the very essence and nature of Dragon Quest itself.  The music, the visual style, the gameplay aesthetic, even the story telling would need tweaking as it would require dropping the lighthearted surface layer inherent to DQ.  It wouldn't feel right in that format.  Maybe it might work...the only thing that could potentially work IS the story format.  Gameplay though, definitely needs a shift to fit the feel and I can't think of the damn word for it, but like the inherent expected format for that type of world.  You'd have to explain Gigaslash away as needing some lightning thing added to the character's robotic arm, or weapon.  Something that works in context with what I would expect in that game world.

I suppose the one thing both have in common...is the nature of being trapped in a time loop, and awash with a nostalgia, a need to maintain form.  They're just very different.

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@ignasia change will happen sooner of later in the series it happens to every long runing series, unless you really think nothing will change between Dragon Quest XIX and Dragon Quest XI...i think that's just pure wishinful thinking.

Dragon Quest won't be inmune of change when the big 3 die, honestly i'ts better to accept it that will happen and move on, change is natural and happens eventually.

Not only that, we will likely get new mainline dragon quest games quickier than we're used too since they will likely reuse UE4 for a bunch of games, no point of creating a new engine anymore, so we might get DQ14 as early as 2029, that's another big chance that the series will face.

XII: 2021/2022

XIII: 2024/2025

XIV: 2028/2029

Edited by Stuner50

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12 minutes ago, Stuner50 said:

Dragon Quest won't be inmune of change when the big 3 die, honestly i'ts better to accept it that will happen and move on, change is natural and happens eventually.

 

 

You're forgetting how big Dragon Quest is in Japan. Many many people there grew up playing Dragon Quest. Anyone that replaces him will likely not want it to change. Horii dying won't suddenly make Dragon Quest a game that changes willy-nilly like Final Fantasy. You remember what happened when they tried changing IX to an action game don't you? Besides they've already told us that they'll be keeping the mainline games vanilla and use the spinoff games for trying out new things and settings. There's no real reason to go against that.

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@Stuner50

1) Changes come to DQ all the time already, but they're handled as branching off elements that expand from base simple elements from previous games.  This would be an overhaul.  So of course there would be changes expected for long-time fans.  It's now expected some new elements will be integrated.  Once they become more consistent and stick around, there's more appeal in the long-term for fans, because it becomes more the new defacto look and style.  Given DQ doesn't change, so much as add on and grow new branches, so the differences are more subtle, it's much easier to shift viewpoints and adopt to those changes with subsequent games, as they really are subtle.

2) SE won't control DQ after the creator trio pass on.  Armour Project will still control the story, content, and gameplay.  Sugiyama Kobo will still control the music.  Bird Studio, the art direction.  There will be other people at the helms of those studios, but this is Japan, and there is a personal desire to show deference and absolute respect for the vision of the original creators.  Something lost in the West, unfortunately.  SE, on its own, would also actively choose to show a measure of respect and deference to the vision of the creator.  There would be lines they would be more willing to cross, such as orchestral music renditions in games, or artistic direction with a little more flair...like DQ's 7 and 9 showed, though both of those were done by Toriyama.  11 shows a little initiative in monster design aesthetic, not as much as 9, or the outright reworks of old monsters 7 attempted (I prefer 7's reformed versions of old classics), but all of them still feel and look like Toriyama, something I would expect from future artists Toriyama puts in charge of handling the series when he moves to retire.

3) As Mordegon above me states, this is Japan.  The main audience expects the DQ experience.  This is something SE would fully understand, and would know they would be taking a massive gamble and potentially kill the series there, at a heavy risk of potentially greater success in the West.  There's also no guarantee that even should it become successful in the West with such drastic changes, that the differential in growth in the West would make up for the loss in Japan.  It would also alienate a lot of fans here, that do exist.

There are people who refuse to buy DQ8 because it looks to them like a Final Fantasy game, as the characters aren't chibi.  It's not 2D.  I know this is true in Japan, but it is true here as well.  Same with 11, except one of those friends passed on, and I no longer speak to the other.   I know people who refuse to buy DQ9 because of enemy spawns on the map rather than random encounters, the heavy puns, and spell translations they just cannot get around.  They don't appear on GameFAQs anymore, but there were people who were long-time fans, who felt alienated because of those minor additions/changes.  There are people who used to post here, who felt VERY strongly about the puns, town/place/enemy/item/npc/character names, and spell names.  I don't know if they left the series or not, or bought any of the new games since 8, but they certainly haven't posted in years, and left rather upset at the changes.  ESPECIALLY when 9 was released.  There was a hell of a lot of haranguing in the forums, so much so that some people who used to post here left as a result.  A lot of them were sick of defending the fact that it's not a huge issue, and it's better to move on and enjoy the games or just stick with nostalgia, or wait out a fan translation that might take a more literal path.

Even FF, which is built around the concept of change, gets shat on by fans who dislike some of the changes, but not because they're necessarily bad (though some do take issues with quality control and integration), but because conventions they feel are inherent to the FF series are dropped, even if they've only been around for two games, at best, but they happen to be the two games those particular fans adore more than anything, and see as the defacto format for FF, and look for even a semblance of similarity in other FF games to point to those systems existing in some primitive form, or as a slight carry-over with a lot of tweaking (even if this is pure fantasy, as the amount of similarity is so minute, the two systems are barely distinguishable).

Plenty of people who jumped on the DQ bandwagon recently, are from other series, who feel betrayed at changes in direction for those other series (most notably FF).

So imagine if you would, the impact in Japan, a country that is notorious for maintaining nostalgic consistency of theme and form in everything.  From daily life, to art, to cultural practices, to even belief systems (even melding old forms and practices to new religious systems...which is fairly human and historically consistent with most cultures who adopt a new philosophy or religion).

Dragon Quest VIII's Japan sales were LOW for what they should have been, despite the release at the height of the system in Japan, when it had roughly the equivalent system sales in Japan to the Playstation 1 sales when DQ7 was released, as it was fading into oblivion.  Yet DQ8 undersold DQ7.  Why?  Harsh criticism over the look and style.  Despite the cell shading look, and that the models maintained a strict adherence to Toriyama's style, and would be the natural progression of that art aesthetic in a game world, after technology allowed for more realistic NPC models, it was taken as a betrayal of form, because DQ was a 2D chibi-pixel art game series in the past.  The overwhelming sense in Japan of that format, once introduced, being the defacto form, and the one that should continue to represent the series, is quite strong.  So for those who started with the NES, I'm sure the SNES releases were seen as an undesired change.  DQ7 PSX a continuation of the SNES format, so for those who played on the SNES, a continuation of form, and for those from the NES era dying to play DQ, and that DQ is the only one maintaining that consistent aesthetic (even Atlus games were seeing drastic changes), it was probably the most comfortable fit that maintained some consistency of form in a new system, that over time, anger over changes might have thawed and reason come to play.

So when a minor shift in DQ8's design, and the dungeon design, and world design can cause such a stir.  Imagine the reaction if DQ makes a dramatic shift in look and art-style.  A total 180.  Not a natural progression, but a complete facelift.

Edited by ignasia

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Yuji Horii has stated that he wants XII to be an action game. The only way I think it could work is if it took some cues from Kingdom Hearts. I feel that would be the natural progression from X's battle system, anyway. Dragon Quest's combat is too complex to nix the menu system, and I wouldn't be interested in a simplified version. The simplifications in XI's Unreal 3D mode were already disappointing. (Most of these actually originate from X, but the simplifications to buffs/debuffs/status effects made sense in the MMO context and were balanced out by other complexities.)

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32 minutes ago, Erdrick The Hero said:

Yuji Horii has stated that he wants XII to be an action game.

Is there any source on this? All that I have ever found regarding this from Yuji Horii is that he wants the series to sell more outside of Japan, and that he wants to "include tricks related to the game system". Which doesn't mean it will be action based. There was also that job posting that was posted about a month ago. The description stated nothing on it being a mainline title or not. For all we know it could be Heroes 3.

Edited by Twinkie

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1 hour ago, Twinkie said:

Is there any source on this? All that I have ever found regarding this from Yuji Horii is that he wants the series to sell more outside of Japan, and that he wants to "include tricks related to the game system". Which doesn't mean it will be action based. There was also that job posting that was posted about a month ago. The description stated nothing on it being a mainline title or not. For all we know it could be Heroes 3.

Erdrick read no such thing.  I am thinking he's conflating statements Horii made about wanting an Action DQ following DQ7's release back in 2001 (no longer exists, not even archived...thanks 1UP!), which was well known to the fanbase for a very long time.  Alongside likely DQ9 starting out as an action RPG, and the recent anniversary couch conflagration of Horii and Level-5's leadership and how they discussed DQ9 and a remake (intended to make it seem as though it wasn't intended, but clearly they had plans before this, and this was how they planned to announce it).  Then probably with the recent job postings SE has put out for new Dragon Quest games, and one which specifically calls for someone with Action oriented battle experience.

DQ9 remake reveal:

https://gematsu.com/2019/07/dragon-quest-ix-staff-discuss-possibility-of-remake-during-10th-anniversary-live-stream

Dragon Quest job postings relevant to Action RPG's:

https://www.jp.square-enix.com/recruit/career/contents/dragon_quest_new/
https://hrmos.co/pages/square-enix/jobs/100400900

https://nintendosoup.com/next-dragon-quest-title-in-development-could-be-an-action-rpg/
https://mynavi.agentsearch.jp/jobDetail/?jobId=31772535

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I looked for the article, but I can't find it now.

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52 minutes ago, Erdrick The Hero said:

I looked for the article, but I can't find it now.

Do you recall when you read it?  Nevermind, it isn't worth looking into.  I just read over 30 articles, they all say the same.  Either the job postings, or DQ12 is a long ways away, or Yu Miyaki's statement regarding making preparations for connections and storylines for 12.

Edited by ignasia

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You're forgetting how big Dragon Quest is in Japan. Many many people there grew up playing Dragon Quest. Anyone that replaces him will likely not want it to change. Horii dying won't suddenly make Dragon Quest a game that changes willy-nilly like Final Fantasy. You remember what happened when they tried changing IX to an action game don't you? Besides they've already told us that they'll be keeping the mainline games vanilla and use the spinoff games for trying out new things and settings. There's no real reason to go against that.
It's worked for Pokémon, I'm sure it'll be similar for DQ. Stay steady with the mainline!

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@ignasia @Erdrick The Hero

I think that pretty much semi-confirms that Dragon Quest XII will have some sort of changes, specially since they want it to appeal to people outside Japan.

It doesn't necesarily mean action-based, but maybe a more cinematic/story-driven game and mature storyline like Final Fantasy or a lot of western games are, peraphs they'll go for a more linear aproach this time around.

Honestly, as long the party and story is as good as XI, i'm in.

 

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