Question about the Final Boss (big spoilers)

[Hendrik of Heliodor 31]

I'm referring to Mordegon here. I read here that the Lord of Shadows is a separate entity to Mordegon. It basically says that the being that presents itself after the Fall of Yggdrasil (probably Mordegon's first demon form) proves that it is separate to Mordegon. However, I always thought that Lord of Shadows was just the title that was used to refer to Mordegon and that the being was just Mordegon after absorbing Yggdrasil's powers. And as for the two dragons in his final form, the bestiary states that Mordragon's Tail is the Sword of Shadows so wouldn't that mean that Mordragon is Mordegon.. This seems pretty obvious but I don't know why the site states that it's a different entity. The only thing that would make sense to me is that the Lord of Shadows is the dark force that entered Morcant when he absorbed his powers but even then, Lord of Shadows just seems like a title. So, are they different or is the article wrong?

[Twinkie 229]

I was given the impression that the Lords of Shadows... 

Spoiler

was just a manifestation from a part of Calasmos. The seal on Calasmos wasn't complete, so part of his "power" broke/leaked off. Mordegon was simply the dark spirit of Morcant, while his "true" self was thrown aside when he absorbed the power. It is misleading since Mordegon picks the title up. So essentially Mordegon is part of the spirit of Morcant. Lords of Shadow is the "power" itself. So they would be considered as two separate entities. Which would explain the twin dragon.

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Twinkie

[Hendrik of Heliodor 31]

Ah yes, this is what I thought it could mean if they are two seperate entities, thanks.

[Twinkie 229]

So I got to the final boss in Act 2. I think it throws all of that out the window. "Lords of Shadow" was renamed to "Mordragon's Tail".

[Hendrik of Heliodor 31]

I haven't reached it on Switch personally, but in the PS4/Steam game, the 'Lord of Shadows' (human skull) was referred to as 'Mordragon' in the bestiary and 'Mordragon' (dragon skull) was referred to as 'Mordragon's Tail'. The inconsistency here was weird, I guess they fixed it up for this version. So I think from what you wrote that the renamed 'Lord of Shadows' to 'Mordragon' and renamed 'Mordragon' to 'Mordragon's Tail', correct me if I'm wrong though.

[Twinkie 229]

45 minutes ago, Hendrik of Heliodor said:

I haven't reached it on Switch personally, but in the PS4/Steam game, the 'Lord of Shadows' (human skull) was referred to as 'Mordragon' in the bestiary and 'Mordragon' (dragon skull) was referred to as 'Mordragon's Tail'. The inconsistency here was weird, I guess they fixed it up for this version. So I think from what you wrote that the renamed 'Lord of Shadows' to 'Mordragon' and renamed 'Mordragon' to 'Mordragon's Tail', correct me if I'm wrong though.

Sorry I did get it mixed up. But you are correct.

The "Lord of Shadow" was renamed to Mordragon. The old "Mordragon" was renamed to Mordragon's Tail. 

[AngelFalls 4]

A very late addition that might help build upon this some more lol. The Defeated Monster List describes Mordragon's Tail as "The Sword of Shadows reborn as a brutal, bony dragon." I support the idea that the 'Lord of Shadows' refers to the essence of Calasmos that corrupted Morcant, whilst 'Mordegon' is the end result.

[ignasia 1,171]

...no, Mordegon is the Lord of Shadows.  I'm not sure how you read that from that site, because nothing in the link indicates anything but that Mordegon is the Lord of Shadows, and the only being to have ever gone by that name, not the opposite of that.  So where you came to that conclusion I don't get.

He was developed as a result of

Spoiler

Morcant's strong desire to surpass Erdwin, as the two had long been rivals, along with the overwhelming force of evil that came with Calasmos' essence in the moment Morcant made the decision to take that essence to become more powerful.  It's not specifically Calasmos that grants this, nor is Calasmos the "lord of shadows" as he doesn't hide in Shadows, though he is of the darkness.  So you could say that Mordegon claimed himself as such because he was a being of the light, corrupted by the dark, and is thus half-in and half-out, both human and being of the nether realms at the time before creation.  So he walks in the shadows.  As well it's a title related to his constantly staying hidden until he was ready to reveal himself, planning his eventual control of the world, a shade spoken of only in whispers from people who had encountered him, but nothing more.  Thus Robert's quest for knowledge was a smattering of hints, but little else, because he was a new being, and only gathered enough of an army of monsters, and had cemented the start of his plan in his initial attack on Zwaardsrust, as a precursor (and likely to remove certain information and artifacts that would have pointed to Erdwin's companions, and likely anything related to his origins that maybe Drustan had left for his forebears, nevermind the best trained men who if mustered, could potential come to Dundrasil's aide).

 

[AngelFalls 4]

Apologies, I misinterpreted and misunderstood some of the information lol. My current understanding is that Mordegon uses the title "Lord of Shadows" regardless, but that his 'Lord of Shadows' form, encountered as the final boss of the main game, is a further corruption of his already tainted form. I now understand that this 'essence of Calasmos' merely allowed the creation of Mordegon from Morcant's rent soul in the first place, as opposed to it existing as an individual entity. 

[Hendrik of Heliodor 31]

On 6/5/2020 at 8:44 AM, ignasia said:

...no, Mordegon is the Lord of Shadows.  I'm not sure how you read that from that site, because nothing in the link indicates anything but that Mordegon is the Lord of Shadows, and the only being to have ever gone by that name, not the opposite of that.  So where you came to that conclusion I don't get.

He was developed as a result of

  Hide contents

Morcant's strong desire to surpass Erdwin, as the two had long been rivals, along with the overwhelming force of evil that came with Calasmos' essence in the moment Morcant made the decision to take that essence to become more powerful.  It's not specifically Calasmos that grants this, nor is Calasmos the "lord of shadows" as he doesn't hide in Shadows, though he is of the darkness.  So you could say that Mordegon claimed himself as such because he was a being of the light, corrupted by the dark, and is thus half-in and half-out, both human and being of the nether realms at the time before creation.  So he walks in the shadows.  As well it's a title related to his constantly staying hidden until he was ready to reveal himself, planning his eventual control of the world, a shade spoken of only in whispers from people who had encountered him, but nothing more.  Thus Robert's quest for knowledge was a smattering of hints, but little else, because he was a new being, and only gathered enough of an army of monsters, and had cemented the start of his plan in his initial attack on Zwaardsrust, as a precursor (and likely to remove certain information and artifacts that would have pointed to Erdwin's companions, and likely anything related to his origins that maybe Drustan had left for his forebears, nevermind the best trained men who if mustered, could potential come to Dundrasil's aide).

 

Yes. This makes sense to me. When I wrote this topic the page did suggest that the Lord of Shadows and Mordegon were two separate entities which confused me as the game seemed to imply that they are the same but it seems to have been removed. Perhaps it was a mistake.

[ignasia 1,171]

5 hours ago, Hendrik of Heliodor said:

Yes. This makes sense to me. When I wrote this topic the page did suggest that the Lord of Shadows and Mordegon were two separate entities which confused me as the game seemed to imply that they are the same but it seems to have been removed. Perhaps it was a mistake.

OOOH, LOL.  I guess someone got wise, or made a correction realizing that would cause a stir/confusion.  Cool beans.

Though I have noticed there are now new wiki's for DQ, which is good, but it also means Flying Ragnar's, the best wiki, is buried more often than not, or just inaccessible, as the other three are just meh.  At least the fandom wiki is dying, as that group is horrible in its presentation and while I've never written a page on it, I can't imagine it's as easy to use as others given how sparse most fangroup pages are, and how few use special functions, even in larger community pages (like FF).