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ErdrickRotoLotoOrtega

I noticed a trend concerning the secondary worlds that began with DQVII and beyond

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By "secondary worlds" I'm referring to other dimensions/realms (IE: Zenithia, Dark Worlds, Fairy Lea, etc).

In DQ III, IV, V and VI, the secondary worlds all sported their own dedicated world maps and were rather interactive environments.

Starting with VII, the secondary worlds no longer had dedicated maps and were, instead, just relegated to dungeons, shrines, etc. Isolated areas. For example, in VII you'd have the Time Vortex, dark world accessible from the Buckinham region (the world with the glow in the dark monster tracks), Sky Town, Orgodemir's castle in the dark dimension, bonus dungeons, etc.

In VIII you'd have the Troll Mirror World, Moon Shadow Land, Dragovian Realm and the Dark World. The Dark World in that game was just a simple pallet swap with more difficult enemies and boss dungeon.

From what I've researched, XI apparently follows this same pattern with a world in a painting, an afterlife-type dimension/etc.

I guess the point I'm driving at is that, after VI, the games no longer featured fully-mapped secondary worlds. The secondary worlds in VII and beyond simply exist as little segues/dungeons.

I always loved having multiple world maps to explore in III-VI and have missed this aspect in the later games.

Could this change have been due to data restrictions? After all, VII was a two-disk game even with just one world map, for example, while VIII-XI all have 3D world maps.

I guess I just miss those secondary world maps. They add extra dimensions to the game. I mean--imagine if you played DQV and Fairy Lea was just an isolated town/dungeon. Just wouldn't be the same.

I would have enjoyed seeing Orgodemir's castle as part of a Nadiria-esque dark world with towns/shrines/etc. 

While VI is low on my DQ list, I loved how the Dread Realm was a fully-realized world: towns full of people in despair. It's more of an immersive experience, if that makes sense.

Edited by ErdrickRotoLotoOrtega

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Quite simply, it’s harder to make a whole new world (A NEW FANTASTIC POINT OF VIEW NO ONE TO TELL US NO OR WHERE TO GO OR SAY WE’RE ONLY DREAMING) in a fully rendered 3D world than it is to make a 2D overworld.

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It is much easier to make a 2D map then it is to make a full 3D rendered world. A lot more thought in the design, and art direction with 3D models. I think a big part of the "clone world" aspect had to do with expanding the gameplay without taking up that much memory. It is much easier to copy and paste a world, and slightly change the tiles then it is to make a secondary world. Which would allow developers to make more content for the game. Once memory became less of an issue, most developers moved away from this as they were able to create more unique environments for the gameplay.

I think it is a much better direction to make a larger world, then to make a clone for players to go through. This helps build world. As of DQXI, this was far from a non issue. With today's technology, I would much rather see two completely different and unique worlds. And not ones that were copy and pasted and slapped over with a filter.

Also, I think Dragon Quest VII was on two discs because they HAD to include the incredibly bad animated cut scenes. Not from the content itself.

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I don't know, VII may have had just one world, every island of this world has two faces. Present and past. That's kinda like two worlds in the end. 

As for the following games, I don't feel like a second world was necessary. VIII was already massive, with a world bigger than in any previous games, IX being on DS and having an already incredibly huge world it would have been difficult, I imagine, to make a second world in it. 

X is another story imo. The world is bigger than VIII and XI's, and each new expansion add another part of the world, sub-worlds (Dragoviens' realm, and what will probably be Nadiria or something soon) etc. 

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2 hours ago, eal said:

Quite simply, it’s harder to make a whole new world (A NEW FANTASTIC POINT OF VIEW NO ONE TO TELL US NO OR WHERE TO GO OR SAY WE’RE ONLY DREAMING) in a fully rendered 3D world than it is to make a 2D overworld.

Nice Aladdin reference. ;)

Yeah, that makes sense. It's still a bit of a shame, I think. III spoiled me, I guess. Nothing more special and falling into a game-sized world from DQI.

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1 hour ago, Twinkie said:

It is much easier to make a 2D map then it is to make a full 3D rendered world. A lot more thought in the design, and art direction with 3D models. I think a big part of the "clone world" aspect had to do with expanding the gameplay without taking up that much memory. It is much easier to copy and paste a world, and slightly change the tiles then it is to make a secondary world. Which would allow developers to make more content for the game. Once memory became less of an issue, most developers moved away from this as they were able to create more unique environments for the gameplay.

I think it is a much better direction to make a larger world, then to make a clone for players to go through. This helps build world. As of DQXI, this was far from a non issue. With today's technology, I would much rather see two completely different and unique worlds. And not ones that were copy and pasted and slapped over with a filter.

Also, I think Dragon Quest VII was on two discs because they HAD to include the incredibly bad animated cut scenes. Not from the content itself.

Makes sense.

What was that about XI? Did XI have a clone world? I heard something about an "Afterworld" map or something but didn't look into it.

Ah, yes--the PS1 era and its "cutscenes for the sake of having cutscenes" style. I'm happy the 3DS version did away with these.

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41 minutes ago, Xiggy said:

I don't know, VII may have had just one world, every island of this world has two faces. Present and past. That's kinda like two worlds in the end. 

As for the following games, I don't feel like a second world was necessary. VIII was already massive, with a world bigger than in any previous games, IX being on DS and having an already incredibly huge world it would have been difficult, I imagine, to make a second world in it. 

X is another story imo. The world is bigger than VIII and XI's, and each new expansion add another part of the world, sub-worlds (Dragoviens' realm, and what will probably be Nadiria or something soon) etc. 

True. VII had a duel map system similar to VI and most of them featured different scenarios, so you're right--that was sort of like having two world maps. I guess I just missed having a dark world in that game. I mean--there IS a dark world (that's where you fight Orgodemir the first time) but it's just a castle and you're never allowed to see anything beyond the castle except for what looks like an orange-black void outside.

Same thing with that dark world near Buckinham where you battle a boss on this floating island tethered by a giant chain--I wanted to see more of that world in the form of a map. 

Now that I'm discussing this, I just realized that VII had a lot of inter-dimensional travel on TOP OF time travel.

Well, VIII and IX had these little fringe dimensional worlds (Mirror World, Moon Shadow Land, Realm of the Almighty, Observatory, etc) but it would have been nice to see more of the Realm of the Almighty in the form of a map. I imagine it looking like something akin to Fairy Lea.

I get it, though--harder and more time-consuming to accomplish in 3D.

Like I said to the others, III spoiled me. When I realized I'd left Earth and entered Alefgard, it was one of the greatest, most satisfying feelings I've had as a gamer. I was in an entirely different map altogether. From that point forward, I came to expect a separate Dark World map in each game. You're right, though--the duel map nature of VII was interesting in the way the destinations changed depending upon whether it was past or present.

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14 minutes ago, ErdrickRotoLotoOrtega said:

What was that about XI? Did XI have a clone world? I heard something about an "Afterworld" map or something but didn't look into it.

Bit of a minor spoiler. But just to be safe I will tag it without mentioning about the story.
 

Spoiler

You will have to explore the world more then once that does have some changes.

 

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56 minutes ago, Twinkie said:

Bit of a minor spoiler. But just to be safe I will tag it without mentioning about the story.
 

 

Ah, I see. Thanks for the info!

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DQVI went overboard. 2 full world maps and one of them letting you go underwater in one of them effectively doubling+ the size of that. Sure they had almost doubled it in 7, but pulled back a bit in 8.

I blame DQVI. As I do for most things in life.

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The worst part of the Dream World in VI is that it was mostly the same map and that made it so that I sometimes couldn’t even remember which world I was even in. And with how obtuse your next objective is, you’ve found yourself in a situation where you have to travel around two identical maps trying to figure out what to do next.

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10 hours ago, eal said:

I sometimes couldn’t even remember which world I was even in

I felt the same while playing it. However, as time-consuming as it was to jump from one world to the other, I rather enjoyed it. 

In a way, it made sense (to me), that even the in-game characters would sometimes lose themselves into these convoluted adventures. Since they don't know if what they've experienced in the real word was real or a dream, it also feels natural (again, to me), to not know if you're in the right world or not. ^^

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On 9/6/2019 at 9:53 PM, Plattym3 said:

DQVI went overboard. 2 full world maps and one of them letting you go underwater in one of them effectively doubling+ the size of that. Sure they had almost doubled it in 7, but pulled back a bit in 8.

I blame DQVI. As I do for most things in life.

LOL! 

DQVI did go overboard, yes. The fraternal twin maps were confusing, to say the least, and not very interesting. I loved the Dread Realm, though. That was the most "involved" of the Dark Worlds since III.

I actually loved the Dark World in VIII despite it being a carbon copy of the real world--I simply wish we were able to explore the ENTIRETY of the dark world in that game--not just a single continent. That would have been interesting.

On 9/6/2019 at 10:46 PM, eal said:

The worst part of the Dream World in VI is that it was mostly the same map and that made it so that I sometimes couldn’t even remember which world I was even in. And with how obtuse your next objective is, you’ve found yourself in a situation where you have to travel around two identical maps trying to figure out what to do next.

Agreed. VII handled it FAR better.

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