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Should we do a show of hands for everyone who doesn’t have V as their favorite game? It’s in my top 5 DQ games though, so partial hand raise I guess?
Best game? Ehhh
Best DQ story arc? Sure!
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That's my point. DQV is probably the DQ that had the most potential, and which has the most compelling story arc, but imo it's kinda ruined with a bunch of blank companions. Had the game had characters like the wondrous cast of IV, of even less interesting ones like VI, it probably would have been a favourite of mine.

I like the story arc, but the only character I like in the game is the silent protagonist. Hard for me to really enjoy the game in this condition. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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DQV also really suffers from the whole wife-choice deal, which is opposed in spirit to the story it wants to tell, where all these plot threads from your childhood all directly end up tying up into your adventure as an adult.

Nera and Debora aren't part of your childhood, and the story bending over backwards to accommodate them is silly.

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42 minutes ago, JaybirdC said:

DQV also really suffers from the whole wife-choice deal, which is opposed in spirit to the story it wants to tell, where all these plot threads from your childhood all directly end up tying up into your adventure as an adult.

Nera and Debora aren't part of your childhood, and the story bending over backwards to accommodate them is silly.

I didn't see it that way, given the time lapse, and the story only has ONE several day to week long period with Bianca as a child.  That's like meeting a girl at 10 over a weekend, she builds up the greater feelings, being a young girl dreaming of marriage, and you're the first boy she's shown a liking to, while for you, it's another adventure, and sure she means something, but it isn't like the game reminds you of her at any point until she pops back into it.  So I cannot agree.  If anything, I see it bending over backwards to guilt trip the Hero into Bianca, and Nera at that point is more normal in the general sense.  I can see Deborah as being a tad forced, but it's not easy to write someone like that in, and your goal is to marry for the shield, and on top of this, gain a rather stunning bride.

The only real established hard connection gained with Bianca, is in the water cave, where Bianca makes it clear over time she fell in love with your memory and has always wanted to see you again.  Anything implied in the Hero's desire for her is just in our own minds.  So in that sense of adventuring, it does build up a stronger connection, and one made at a point where the Hero is already embroiled in getting married, making the choice about love or access/money.  Where it's implied that because Bianca's feelings are so strong, and because of the past adventure, and new fangled adventure, something has to stir in the Hero's heart.  That said, I feel the way it's handled makes the choice fairly open for both, as there's no hard reason for the Hero to prefer Bianca, only for Bianca to prefer the Hero.

It's not handled in any meaningful way.  I do wish the remakes added a little more padding.  You have to remember, when Harry mentions marriage, it's not Bianca the Hero brings up, according to Harry's response, but the woman Harry ends up marrying.  Like they're having a friendly competition, and she's the first thing on their minds for bride worthy material.  However, unlike Harry, the Hero can't afford yet to settle down, but it's meant to bridge the gap of focus on Pankraz's quest for Martha, to the focus for his own love life, allowing for the acceptance of potentially settling down, and the luck of having the shield, the further enticement, that ties in with his father's quest for the legendary hero and through that quest, saving Martha.  So in a way it's still treated more like a side dish than the main course...a bonus element that could potentially lead to a similar love bond that the Hero's father has for his mother.

Though it is true that we're meant to desire Bianca, and she is designed as the focal point because she's the only one with any connection at all, and going from Harry's connection to his wife, and the Hero's initial desire for the same woman stemming from hardship due to fighting together, we're meant to make that transition stronger in the bonding over the Water Cave's super sized length, and the Hero bridging a connection through that to their earlier childhood adventure.  Combined with Bianca's literally walking away from ALL other suitors for years and years because her heart was always set on the Hero, we're supposed to feel like it's the right thing to do, that it's not so much fate, but a connection that makes more sense.

However, there isn't anything in Bianca's dialogue that indicates the Hero shows her any return in her obvious flirtations, and instead treats her like a long lost friend, while she desperately attempts to get some response indicating he feels something for her beyond that.  Which is why she's so flirtatious.  He's just really good to her and they reconnect in friendship.

So in lieu of his behaviour, and her natural shyness whenever she attempts to communicate she has more feelings...it feels like a forced guilt trip to marry her because Bianca would end up alone.

Then there's the constant suitors for Nera, and Nera's own childhood friend, who nearly kills himself.  A man she already has strong feelings for, but not quite romance, though he's head over heels.  It's made plainly obvious that in picking Nera, the troubadour will likely end up alone, heartbroken, and regardless of his demeanor, possibly suicidal because of his lifelong obsession with marrying her.  It's also made plainly obvious that in marrying Nera, she will definitely pick the man she already has feelings for, and nurses his burns daily out of concern and longtime friendship.

So we're meant to feel guilty not just for Bianca, but for the troubadour.  As in marrying Bianca, everyone is happy...yay!  In marrying Nera, two people are left miserable and likely alone for life, or at least well past the point they'd have children.  This is further impressed upon us by Bianca's father and the parents of the troubadour.

In marrying Deborah, the troubadour is happy, but Bianca still ends up alone...you leave your childhood friend to her fate.

So is it really a choice of love, or being forced into something to please another person, for something that should have been about love in the first place?  Sure the Hero is happy in any situation, and the outcome is always positive in the story, but the nature of the approach seems to favour Bianca, and heavily downplay Nera and especially Debora.

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11 hours ago, ignasia said:

The silent protagonist doesn't express any real romantic thoughts for any of the brides, but the game rather obviously tries to emotionally manipulate you into marrying Bianca.

While I appreciate the detailed discussion, none of what you said actually contradicts my statement. In case it's due to a lack of clarity on my part:

Long-winded discussion follows. TL;DR at the end:

Spoiler

DQV very clearly wants to tell a story about how all these little happenstance moments over the course of Madason's life going back into his childhood actually all stitch together into this positive tapestry of a story, including the fact that your bride ends up being of a legendary race. The girl that the game clearly wants Madason to have kids with is Bianca, who he's known since before he can remember (Pankraz and Bianca's family are old friends, Madason just doesn't remember because he was much younger) and with whom he goes on an adventure to save a certain saberkitten -- that she had a notable hand in raising, and who goes on to become a key party member -- and their efforts also earn a legendary artifact tied directly to Bianca's heritage. Bianca is a core part of the setup of multiple plot threads and is very clearly meant to participate in the payoff.

And then the bride-choice mechanic complicates it. Nera is a sweet girl, certainly, but she has no substantial ties to the story being told, she just shows up inexplicably/inextricably in the middle. She doesn't participate (at all, really) in any of the setup, but she just so happens to meet the requirements for the story to continue mostly unhindered. The only actual reason you have to even participate in winning Nera's hand is because you want her father's money treasure; she's only ever a means to an end.

All this is very suggestive to me; I'd bet money that the bride-choice mechanic was something some executive imposed on the game, and that in resentment the developers implemented it subversively -- the story doesn't quite go Killer Game Master, but ends up taking a turn for the spiteful. Dragon Quest is not typically in the habit of creating deliberately unpleasant things, but nonetheless the game offers you a choice it obviously never wanted to actually offer you, and given the amount of time, effort, and programming that hinges on the choice, I cannot see why they would do such a thing except under duress.

Essentially, I reiterate, the game wants to tell a story with myriad events over the course of one man's life all stitching together into the final result (including a childhood romance) but bizarrely implements a mechanic (the bride choice) that directly gets in the way of what it's obviously trying to do.

In short, Dragon Quest V suffers because the story and a core story mechanic are in radical conflict.

Edited by JaybirdC
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You'd have to be sadistic to choose Nera, that's for sure.

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1 hour ago, JaybirdC said:

While I appreciate the detailed discussion, none of what you said actually contradicts my statement. In case it's due to a lack of clarity on my part:

Long-winded discussion follows. TL;DR at the end:

  Hide contents

DQV very clearly wants to tell a story about how all these little happenstance moments over the course of Madason's life going back into his childhood actually all stitch together into this positive tapestry of a story, including the fact that your bride ends up being of a legendary race. The girl that the game clearly wants Madason to have kids with is Bianca, who he's known since before he can remember (Pankraz and Bianca's family are old friends, Madason just doesn't remember because he was much younger) and with whom he goes on an adventure to save a certain saberkitten -- that she had a notable hand in raising, and who goes on to become a key party member -- and their efforts also earn a legendary artifact tied directly to Bianca's heritage. Bianca is a core part of the setup of multiple plot threads and is very clearly meant to participate in the payoff.

And then the bride-choice mechanic complicates it. Nera is a sweet girl, certainly, but she has no substantial ties to the story being told, she just shows up inexplicably/inextricably in the middle. She doesn't participate (at all, really) in any of the setup, but she just so happens to meet the requirements for the story to continue mostly unhindered. The only actual reason you have to even participate in winning Nera's hand is because you want her father's money treasure; she's only ever a means to an end.

All this is very suggestive to me; I'd bet money that the bride-choice mechanic was something some executive imposed on the game, and that in resentment the developers implemented it subversively -- the story doesn't quite go Killer Game Master, but ends up taking a turn for the spiteful. Dragon Quest is not typically in the habit of creating deliberately unpleasant things, but nonetheless the game offers you a choice it obviously never wanted to actually offer you, and given the amount of time, effort, and programming that hinges on the choice, I cannot see why they would do such a thing except under duress.

Essentially, I reiterate, the game wants to tell a story with myriad events over the course of one man's life all stitching together into the final result (including a childhood romance) but bizarrely implements a mechanic (the bride choice) that directly gets in the way of what it's obviously trying to do.

In short, Dragon Quest V suffers because the story and a core story mechanic are in radical conflict.

That’s not long enough. You need about 10 more paragraphs of text to reach Iggy levels. 😜

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2 minutes ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:

That’s not long enough. You need about 10 more paragraphs of text to reach Iggy levels. 😜

 

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6 hours ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:

That’s not long enough. You need about 10 more paragraphs of text to reach Iggy levels. 😜

The last really long thing I did as a fan of anything was over 25 paragraphs. I don't want to go back to the old me.

6 hours ago, ignasia said:

You'd have to be sadistic to choose Nera, that's for sure.

Or you just resent being manipulated and make the wrong choice on purpose. (Which is an unfortunate situation, but that's probably SQEX's fault).

Edited by JaybirdC
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Or you just resent being manipulated and make the wrong choice on purpose. (Which is an unfortunate situation, but that's probably SQEX's fault).
But Nera is the wrong choice.
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1 hour ago, AustNerevar said:
1 hour ago, JaybirdC said:
Or you just resent being manipulated and make the wrong choice on purpose. (Which is an unfortunate situation, but that's probably SQEX's fault).

But Nera is the wrong choice.

Yes, exactly. I've seen many people write that they chose Nera in defiance over the game obviously trying to manipulate them into marrying Bianca.

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The bride choice stuff also ruined any potential discussion of DQV outside of this site, because it devolves into "best waifu" wankery.

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3 hours ago, Mefista said:

The bride choice stuff also ruined any potential discussion of DQV outside of this site, because it devolves into "best waifu" wankery.

Which is silly, anyway, because Bianca is clearly the best girl and all sane people know this.

DQV is weird in that it's really more notable for its story arc rather than any particular characters. To the day, I'm still not all that impressed with the Chess Club of Evil.

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On ‎8‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 11:36 PM, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:

Should we do a show of hands for everyone who doesn’t have V as their favorite game? It’s in my top 5 DQ games though, so partial hand raise I guess?

🖐️

I think it's really overrated and possibly the weakest of the Zenithian trilogy. I didn't feel attached to any of the characters since they were always in and out of my party. The monster taming aspect was fine but having them as a blank slate in a character slot took away from somebody that could have a personality.

Edited by DrippySlimeStar
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13 hours ago, DrippySlimeStar said:

I think it's really overrated and possibly the weakest of the Zenithian trilogy. I didn't feel attached to any of the characters since they were always in and out of my party. The monster taming aspect was fine but having them as a blank slate in a character slot took away from somebody that could have a personality.

Dragon Quest V really is more about the story than the characters, and a lot of potential character development is wasted because the thrice-accursed bride-choice takes up space with an undercooked romance.

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On 8/25/2019 at 8:01 PM, Mefista said:

The bride choice stuff also ruined any potential discussion of DQV outside of this site, because it devolves into "best waifu" wankery.

Well, that's why the wife choice mechanic is there anyway, and that's why they added a third option in the remake. It is a japanese game.

I played the game 3 times (the DS version), I married Bianca all three times, never managed to let her die alone. The one time I started playing for the purpose playing with other girl I didn't get very far into it.

Edited by Billy MK
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I played the DS version 3 times and married a different bride each time. Just last year I finally did a file where I married Debora. Each bride has their strengths and weaknesses. Honestly I have no preference to any of them: I liked all three when it came to combat abilities and party chat, they each have good character designs, and I like how they change the kids appearance a little bit.

My biggest gripe with the bride system in DQ5 is how long you go without being able to use whichever bride you pick as a party member for a long while after the final events of generation 2. That bugs me. If they were accessible again sooner it would be easier to include them into the party again instead of trying to figure out who to replace them with. Almost makes me wish when you were reunited the bride you chose went through an Earthbound Magicant type event where they get a big old level boost to catch up with everyone.

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11 hours ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:

My biggest gripe with the bride system in DQ5 is how long you go without being able to use whichever bride you pick as a party member for a long while after the final events of generation 2. That bugs me. If they were accessible again sooner it would be easier to include them into the party again instead of trying to figure out who to replace them with. Almost makes me wish when you were reunited the bride you chose went through an Earthbound Magicant type event where they get a big old level boost to catch up with everyone.

Right...I only used Sancho and the kids because I felt like any time I entered a town if I had any other party members it would swap them back in. The girl is useless and Sancho isn't anything special. By the time I got Bianca back it was at the end of the game and I didn't feel like having her weighing the team down.

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  • 1 year later...

lol this thread ia so stupid. All of the dumbass assumptions hahaha. The movie absolutely DID NOT say that playing video games is childish. The movie's whole point at the end, which they state in no uncertain terms, is that video games, the worlds, the characters, are special and are actually as real to the people who play them as anything else in the world. Way to jump the gun people. Lol

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You must feel good pointing that out in a topic from over a year ago. Great first post after joining the Den.

Edited by YangustheLegendaryBandit
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