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'Square Enix "undecided" on whether vanilla Dragon Quest XI will receive Definitive Edition content'

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https://gematsu.com/2019/02/square-enix-undecided-on-whether-vanilla-dragon-quest-xi-will-receive-definitive-edition-content

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Yesterday, Square Enix announced a fall release window and new features for Dragon Quest XI S: Echoes of an Elusive Age Definitive Edition for Switch, including new stories where each character becomes the protagonist.

Asked by The Wall Street Journal's Takashi Mochizuki if Square Enix plans to add these features to the vanilla version of Dragon Quest XI for PlayStation 4 and PC via an update or downloadable content, the company said that it is "undecided."

Dragon Quest XI: Echoes of an Elusive Age is available now for PlayStation 4 and PC. Dragon Quest XI S: Echoes of an Elusive Age Definitive Edition is due out for Switch this fall.

 

Edited by Dakhil

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If they do it will be a ways out after the Switch release comes out (if at all). Nintendo can use that as extra push to sell the Switch version.

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There has to be something as an incentive to get the switch version, or else it would be just a late port with nothing special.

That's the point of making a special edition, like they did with catherine on PC, regular for the port, special for the ps4 console.

I hope switch owners get something exclusive. Nintendo is just recently recovering the RPG franchises that left in the 00s. It needs something.

Edited by wiregu

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Unfortunately, many people who bought Dragon Quest XI on the PlayStation 4 and/or PC are very angry at Square Enix (and presumably Nintendo as well) since the new features that Dragon Quest XI S is getting (switching between 3D and 2D mode, switching between English and Japanese dub, etc.) is likely to be exclusive to the Nintendo Switch version and may not come over to the PlayStation 4 and/or the PC version. And many people are demanding that Square Enix put a DLC patch (even it requires payment) that brings the new features of Dragon Quest XI S to the PlayStation 4 and/or the PC version; I'm guessing that many people would want that DLC patch to be released on the day Dragon Quest XI S is released.

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1 hour ago, Dakhil said:

Unfortunately, many people who bought Dragon Quest XI on the PlayStation 4 and/or PC are very angry at Square Enix (and presumably Nintendo as well) since the new features that Dragon Quest XI S is getting (switching between 3D and 2D mode, switching between English and Japanese dub, etc.) is likely to be exclusive to the Nintendo Switch version and may not come over to the PlayStation 4 and/or the PC version. And many people are demanding that Square Enix put a DLC patch (even it requires payment) that brings the new features of Dragon Quest XI S to the PlayStation 4 and/or the PC version; I'm guessing that many people would want that DLC patch to be released on the day Dragon Quest XI S is released.

Each and every one of them is a buffoon.

Half of them cite "greed," as though double dipping is a big thing (it's not outside of fanboys of a series or a particular game), and the exploitation of gamers for more cash in double dipping is only about profits like they don't have expenses to account for.

DQ11 PS4/3DS took 3 years to complete (just under I think), and DQ11 Switch will be about 2 years and 5~7 months depending on when in the fall the official release date is (subtract a month and a half to two months and that's the finalization date..."gold" date).

They also brought in Nintendo to help finalize the product, and assure maximum quality graphicals and a consistent 30FPS.

That's a LOT of goddamn money to spend on a port.  Nevermind Voice Actors for Japan to account for as well (and well, we're getting that too, which is cool but it will satiate only a few extra tastes at little cost in terms of space).

No company could justify a port so far out after release.  Especially for Japan, given their tastes, it's virtually impossible to satisfy the need for a new experience.   Plus they need the numbers to likely surpass DQ9, given just a single console release alone has seen DQ11 with the lowest numbers since DQ2 if we compare console to console.  Even DQ4 NES outsold DQ11 3DS.  So it isn't like the game really banked out on going multiplatform, even considering the different experiences between both versions.  Though in studies of audiences, the 3DS is mostly youth, the PS4 mostly older gamers (by far).  So the Switch having 2D is even more significant, as the Switch audience is mostly adults (less of a % compared to the PS4).  Meaning there are more gamers who are adults to consider for Japan alone.

 

Even without demographics to consider, the idea of spending that long in development for a port definitely requires some serious consideration for how to sell the game and assure maximum profit potential.  Same with any company.  It isn't like they throw it together.

 

It isn't like they're charging for extra DLC.

 

I don't see a single loot box.

 

I see only stupid complaints about a perfectly justifiable and necessary element.  My God it's not like they're forcing people to buy it.  It's by choice, and everyone who asked was told explicitly by anyone in the fanbase who isn't named eal, that the Switch would have new content unique to it.  That was the only given, as to the nature of that content, no one would know.  So if you're looking at or own a Switch, and prefer content to graphics, get the Switch if you're only planning on a single purchase.

 

It's also possible that if the Switch sales are significantly high they might release a patch for the PS4/PC (though honestly I think this is more to gently let PS4/PC gamers down given Nintendo has its contractual claws all over this, and that means either permanent "definitive edition" status, which wouldn't make sense given the branding scheme, and at no point has any statement used the term "temporary.")  It's possible though given certain long-standing conventions have been broken over the years:

1) No ports, only remakes (2004 for mobile, 2011 for console)

2) Main releases only on the most popular home console (2008 for handheld)

3) Only a single console, no multiplatform (DQ11)

4) Midi only...though this is highly inconsistent, and even Japan suffered Sugi's protestation and wrath with DQ7 and 8 3DS having partial tracks (2005 with DQ5)

5) Online game would be an offshoot of the main series (broken with 10)

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Not to mention if there is a DLC/patch down the road for the other versions, I don't see the 2D mode being included. It was previously a 3DS exclusive and now they're adding it to the Switch version and keeping it in the Nintendo family.

I don't feel gypped with the PS4 version, I don't feel it's an "incomplete" product because a newer version gets new content. 

I enjoyed my time with it on PS4 and it was a complete package.

 

Also, the reason the Switch version took so long was because they had to upgrade to a new version of UE4 for development. So this new content is being developed utilizing the new version while the PS4 version is using the earlier version. It's not as simple as just porting this new content to PS4, they have to "downgrade" it for the older version of UE4.

Edited by Tiael

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This is exactly why I hate being a DQ fan sometimes. Cause the majority of the community is a bunch of entitled complainers. The PS4 owners got the game a year before the Switch owners. That has to count for something. And whats being added to the Switch version that really matters? 16 bit graphics? Some Japanese V/Os that no one is going to understand? A couple of songs/BGM that is a bit more orchestrated ? Who really cares? Its just going to end up making Square Enix angry to hear all these whiners and end up cutting off DQ games from translations for upcoming titles.

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On 2/15/2019 at 1:56 AM, Tiael said:

I don't feel gypped with the PS4 version, I don't feel it's an "incomplete" product because a newer version gets new content. 

I enjoyed my time with it on PS4 and it was a complete package.

Funny enough, I've heard some people say the PlayStation 4 version felt incomplete to them once they've heard about the exclusive features coming to Dragon Quest XI S, which I personally think is a ridiculous claim.

Edited by Dakhil

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2 hours ago, Soera said:

This is exactly why I hate being a DQ fan sometimes. Cause the majority of the community is a bunch of entitled complainers. The PS4 owners got the game a year before the Switch owners. That has to count for something. And whats being added to the Switch version that really matters? 16 bit graphics? Some Japanese V/Os that no one is going to understand? A couple of songs/BGM that is a bit more orchestrated ? Who really cares? Its just going to end up making Square Enix angry to hear all these whiners and end up cutting off DQ games from translations for upcoming titles.

As compared to “gamers” in general, who never act entitled.

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9 hours ago, Dakhil said:

Funny enough, I've heard some people say the PlayStation 4 version felt incomplete to them once they've heard about the exclusive features coming to Dragon Quest XI S, which I personally think it's a ridiculous claim.

People will say anything when they feel cheated.  Discussing the clear point that 2.5 years of development for the Switch version REQUIRES SE assure Switch sales are high.  That's a huge expenditure.  Regardless of whether there is a patch or not.  Mentioning that the main audience is Japan, and if we just consider Japan, a simple port would never suffice, while in the US, too many asshats believe in "muh equality" like they have some right to extra content released on another version to make things equal.  I get willingness to pay for DLC, but again, it would damage Switch sales up front, making the whole point of the spending that much time and energy on the Switch pointless, and further, making the partnership with Nintendo to assure the highest quality in return for Nintendo handling the worldwide release that much more a necessity to guarantee high sales.

Especially when they couldn't start development until 2016, and by that point the 3DS/PS4 were so far along it would have hurt the development of those two if they split the team further for the Switch, so they wisely waited until 2017 to start that up.  The only thing they didn't count on is UE4 not being ready back in 2015 or 16, whenever they initially planned on a Switch release, and would have known insider word was UE4 WOULD become Switch compatible as Nintendo and Epic Games made it clear the tool kit WOULD become Switch ready at some point.

I guess in a way SE created the conditions for this attitude given they announced the Switch so early, and re-announced it with the International release announcement, but again, they were a victim of bad circumstance, that in the end will benefit DQ gamers even more.  The only negative being no 3DS release, which most of us would purchase anyhow.

@Tiael  Not quite.  UE4's engine changes wouldn't require any new learning so much as switch specific development.  Syntax, built in functions and objects, built in structure of the code would be nearly identical and wouldn't itself require any further learning curve above and beyond what it was for the PS4.  It's just what they're able to do on the Switch and methods to downgrade the game while maintaining a pretty design aesthetic and the 30 FPS.  That said...initially, definitely, but only because it took Epic an extra year after announcing UE4 for Switch, to get it working.  I mean if they wanted to they could have started up in 2016, but at the time it would have slowed PS4/3DS production, or reduced quality due to stealing manpower, forcing delays in overall production.  So this benefits us all greatly, and frankly I'm rather happy we're getting anything remotely close to a definitive version of a DQ game.  I know you too welcome that concept.  I'm just hoping they have yet to reveal the Yochi Village stuff, but hey there's plenty of time for that.  Here's to hoping.

Edited by ignasia

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On 2/15/2019 at 3:19 AM, ignasia said:

I don't see a single loot box.

This right here, people should understand that all things considered Square isn't making an antagonistic move, they're just adding some stuff to make the port more appealing.

This isn't anti-consumer, like what most publishers and publications do. It's not lootboxes, it's not insulting the customers. This is just a new version with some interesting stuff added.

Nintendo themselves are publishing it, they have to be very aggressive to get 3rd parties on board. Who can blame them for wanting to have something exclusive? What are they supposed to do? Just give up altogether?

Edited by wiregu

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3 hours ago, wiregu said:

This right here, people should understand that all things considered Square isn't making an antagonistic move, they're just adding some stuff to make the port more appealing.

This isn't anti-consumer, like what most publishers and publications do. It's not lootboxes, it's not insulting the customers. This is just a new version with some interesting stuff added.

Nintendo themselves are publishing it, they have to be very aggressive to get 3rd parties on board. Who can blame them for wanting to have something exclusive? What are they supposed to do? Just give up altogether?

It's also common practice even in Western countries.  Though to a lesser degree than in Japan, but it's a well understood element of releasing the same thing later on.  Even record companies do this with rereleases.  They do enhancements, add an extra song or two that never made it to tape, maybe a special booklet with drawings...a dvd, something.

Bethesda's PS3 release of Oblivion and Skyrim were superior, and had built in extras that were paid-for DLC in the 360, and included some exclusives.

Tales of Vesperia had new content on the PS3 (a LOT of new content).

Ni No Kuni was totally rebuilt from scratch going DS to PS3...no need for that, but they did.  Turn-based to Action, altered the entire storyline, added a ton of new content (like 30% of the game).

All remakes and enhanced ports do this.  Even general ports often add something, even if minor, beyond just bug fixes.

Working Designs...how many games did they release over here with added content (often changed content)?

Even Falcom pulls this with new releases on different systems...though Steam for Ys3 was a downgrade from the PSP, that's because for Western audiences they could get away with it as there was no original PC release...and it did have SOME additions beyond the original PC release of Oath in Felghana.

I don't recall people complaining about RE4 PS2 adding on a ton of new content.  Nor the Wii altering most of it, improving gameplay, and adding a few extras...mostly changes though.  Due to certain downgrades with the PS2 however, at the time, the GC was classified as superior.  I don't recall Capcom releasing a GC version with all PS2 content...that's technically the Wii version, nor people  demanding it.

I do not get the entitled mentality over something that has been an industry standard since the 80's, as even the console ports of PC games often added elements (ultima for example, but even Might and Magic made obtaining certain equipment much easier, and built in intentional exploits...I forget the changes made with Ultima).  Granted it wasn't huge until the 90's and remakes/enhanced ports, and then we saw drastic overhauls and additions to improve games, but wow.  Some...really it's a small vocal minority of complainers, just do not get it.  How else can they sell this game.  We should be thankful they're creating a superior version that accounts for almost every possible complaint I've so far seen from the US side.  Likely quite a few in Japan, or at least potential desires of Japanese gamers.  If you can, why wouldn't someone who actually cares about their audience?  Would you rather they not add anything and just make everything a plain jane carbon copy version with downgraded graphics (or updated depending on the system) graphics?

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Holy crap, the entitlement. 

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4 hours ago, ignasia said:

It's also common practice even in Western countries.  Though to a lesser degree than in Japan, but it's a well understood element of releasing the same thing later on.  Even record companies do this with rereleases.  They do enhancements, add an extra song or two that never made it to tape, maybe a special booklet with drawings...a dvd, something.

Bethesda's PS3 release of Oblivion and Skyrim were superior, and had built in extras that were paid-for DLC in the 360, and included some exclusives.

Tales of Vesperia had new content on the PS3 (a LOT of new content).

Ni No Kuni was totally rebuilt from scratch going DS to PS3...no need for that, but they did.  Turn-based to Action, altered the entire storyline, added a ton of new content (like 30% of the game).

All remakes and enhanced ports do this.  Even general ports often add something, even if minor, beyond just bug fixes.

Working Designs...how many games did they release over here with added content (often changed content)?

Even Falcom pulls this with new releases on different systems...though Steam for Ys3 was a downgrade from the PSP, that's because for Western audiences they could get away with it as there was no original PC release...and it did have SOME additions beyond the original PC release of Oath in Felghana.

I don't recall people complaining about RE4 PS2 adding on a ton of new content.  Nor the Wii altering most of it, improving gameplay, and adding a few extras...mostly changes though.  Due to certain downgrades with the PS2 however, at the time, the GC was classified as superior.  I don't recall Capcom releasing a GC version with all PS2 content...that's technically the Wii version, nor people  demanding it.

I do not get the entitled mentality over something that has been an industry standard since the 80's, as even the console ports of PC games often added elements (ultima for example, but even Might and Magic made obtaining certain equipment much easier, and built in intentional exploits...I forget the changes made with Ultima).  Granted it wasn't huge until the 90's and remakes/enhanced ports, and then we saw drastic overhauls and additions to improve games, but wow.  Some...really it's a small vocal minority of complainers, just do not get it.  How else can they sell this game.  We should be thankful they're creating a superior version that accounts for almost every possible complaint I've so far seen from the US side.  Likely quite a few in Japan, or at least potential desires of Japanese gamers.  If you can, why wouldn't someone who actually cares about their audience?  Would you rather they not add anything and just make everything a plain jane carbon copy version with downgraded graphics (or updated depending on the system) graphics?

I will say, I’m not one to defend “gamer” entitlement, but something being common doesn’t mean it’s okay. It might have happened with Oblivion and Skyrim, but if the last couple months have taught us anything, it’s that the things we were okay with defending that company for has resulted in a situation where we’re no longer willing to accept those practices.

The PS3 version of Tales of Vesperia never came to the US so people didn’t really have much of an opinion on the added content. They were too busy being annoyed it didn’t come at all.

Resident Evil 4’s PS2 port was met with so much negative criticism Shinji Mikami has to apologize for not keeping it a GameCube exclusive. It undercut GameCube sales. RE4 was a part of the Capcom Five, which were all promised exclusives for the GameCube. The situation is admittedly different because RE4 was promised for one console and ended up on others, and that’s not the case for XI, but there was definitely criticism.

Just because it’s standard practice, doesn’t mean it’s something we should accept as a standard. I do think maybe fans should have been informed of some things to expect. It’s easy to forget that, as fans of this franchise, we’re willing to double dip and play it again. I’ve defended franchises that have done that that I shouldn’t have just because I love it enough to be okay with it. But some people might’ve been willing to hold out for the Switch port had they known about the additional content. There was a huge stink about the 3DS version not coming on here and other places. There was a huge stink about the music on here and other places. And this game essentially fixes those problems. There are people that settled for the PS4 version because their preferred version never came. I wouldn’t defend entitled behavior, the idea that they’re owed something, but I think it’s justifiable to be upset about it.

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And to play devil's advocate, Square Enix did say that Dragon Quest XI on PlayStation 4 and PC needs to do well in order for future Dragon Quest games to be localised outside of Japan, so I don't completely blame people who bought the PlayStation 4 and the PC versions to feel upset. 

I'm personally OK with the exclusive features of Dragon Quest XI S being available as a DLC patch (that may require payment) for the PlayStation 4 and the PC versions, but at least a year after the release of Dragon Quest XI S.

Edited by Dakhil
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They did say the Switch version was going to get special/new content, so I don’t get why people have been upset by the news on what all was going to be in the Switch version.

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8 minutes ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:

They did say the Switch version was going to get special/new content, so I don’t get why people have been upset by the news on what all was going to be in the Switch version.

The same reason people were upset that the 3DS version wasn’t coming and wanted to play that specific game, but still wanted to play Dragon Quest XI so they settled for the PS4 version.

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30 minutes ago, eal said:

The same reason people were upset that the 3DS version wasn’t coming and wanted to play that specific game, but still wanted to play Dragon Quest XI so they settled for the PS4 version.

I was referring to people in the Facebook group Platty and I run having meltdowns about the Switch version with my post above. I should have mentioned that before, but like most Saturdays when I have to work I kind of have to blurt out what I want to post, which is not a good habit. I haven’t bothered looking anywhere else on the internet for reactions but I’m sure it’s about the same depending where you look.

I’m hoping they’ll do what they did with World of Final Fantasy when it came to the Maxim version and offer a means to download and enjoy the new content. Maybe do what Dakhil said and make it available after so much time for the PS4/PC version.

Edited by YangustheLegendaryBandit
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26 minutes ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:

I was referring to people in the Facebook group Platty and I run having meltdowns about the Switch version with my post above. I should have mentioned that before, but like most Saturdays when I have to work I kind of have to blurt out what I want to post, which is not a good habit. I haven’t bothered looking anywhere else on the internet for reactions but I’m sure it’s about the same depending where you look.

I’m hoping they’ll do what they did with World of Final Fantasy when it came to the Maxim version and offer a means to download and enjoy the new content. Maybe do what Dakhil said and make it available after so much time for the PS4/PC version.

Honestly, I don’t mind if they decide to include the extra content as paid DLC. I think that’s plenty fair. I don’t see it happening, but stranger things and all that.

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1 hour ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:

I haven’t bothered looking anywhere else on the internet for reactions but I’m sure it’s about the same depending where you look.

I can tell you it's the same on the Dragon Quest subreddit. There was a long post on the Dragon Quest subreddit where one person was ranting about how Square Enix is saying f#@$ you to the people who bought the PlayStation 4 and the PC versions of Dragon Quest XI by making Dragon Quest XI S exclusive to the Nintendo Switch and how that person might personally boycott Square Enix if that's the case.

 

Edited by Dakhil

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Eal, Shinji Mikami apologized for RE6, NOT RE4.  There was no absolute exclusivity for the Gamecube.  It was temporary, and always billed as such.  At no point did RE4 PS2 hurt RE4 GC sales given the time lapse between them assured 6 months when sales trickled to nothing before PS2 pictures came out.  By that point sales had dropped off considerably (well before actually).

I cannot find backlash anywhere regarding RE4 PS2 in relation to the GC from any official sources.

The only complaints I do find are modern complaints that RE4 somehow set the stage for RE5 and 6, and is now a terrible game, from people who praised it openly until RE6 or the most recent remake of RE2.  Like Alpha Omega Sin.

Edited by ignasia

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The gamecube lost all it's exclusives to the PS2, Killer7, RE4, even Harvest Moon, most of the ports were sold as special editions. I don't think anyone boycotted or got angry about it.

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1 hour ago, ignasia said:

Eal, Shinji Mikami apologized for RE6, NOT RE4.  There was no absolute exclusivity for the Gamecube.  It was temporary, and always billed as such.  At no point did RE4 PS2 hurt RE4 GC sales given the time lapse between them assured 6 months when sales trickled to nothing before PS2 pictures came out.  By that point sales had dropped off considerably (well before actually).

I cannot find backlash anywhere regarding RE4 PS2 in relation to the GC from any official sources.

The only complaints I do find are modern complaints that RE4 somehow set the stage for RE5 and 6, and is now a terrible game, from people who praised it openly until RE6 or the most recent remake of RE2.  Like Alpha Omega Sin.

https://m.ign.com/articles/2007/04/05/mikami-alive-and-well

^ If you trust IGN’s translation of a Famitsu article.

Regardless, Mikami quite infamously said he’d “cut off his head” if RE4 went anywhere but GameCube. Whether that was meant literally or was mistranslated to mean “leaving the company,” the meaning is still the same.

And it does hurt the bottom line for Nintendo if they’re trying to boost sales for their flagging console and after Capcom comes out and says that they’re working on five games exclusive to the GameCube backpedals shortly after and says all but one, Resident Evil 4, could potentially end up on other consoles. (https://m.ign.com/articles/2003/01/16/cgd-03-capcom-five-not-gcn-exclusive) Only to then say, two months before release that it would be coming to PS2 as well. Difference is Dragon Quest XI never promised console exclusivity.

29 minutes ago, wiregu said:

The gamecube lost all it's exclusives to the PS2, Killer7, RE4, even Harvest Moon, most of the ports were sold as special editions. I don't think anyone boycotted or got angry about it.

Killer7, along with RE4, Viewtiful Joe, and two other games, were all initially announced as GameCube exclusives and were meant to boost sales for the console. 

Edited for clarity.

Edited by eal
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I wonder if the Switch version will include the Yocchi mini game where you go through a huge dungeon and get scrolls to visit other DQ worlds.

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2 hours ago, DranzerX13 said:

I wonder if the Switch version will include the Yocchi mini game where you go through a huge dungeon and get scrolls to visit other DQ worlds.

The release window means the game is in development until anywhere from June to September, maybe even as late as early October for printing copies for December, which while classified as Christmas, is still Fall, and even in retail is still part of the Fall season, even if it's considered Christmas...but then Christmas season includes the whole of Fall (October through December).

Anyway, there's a LOT of time to both finalize the game, and to leave plenty of room for revealing special content.

It's still possible, even if potentially unlikely.  Though given the terminology is "definitive edition" it would be hard to justify the name without it.  It shouldn't take up that much extra space on the cart, and the nature of the sidequest offers a lot of room for development.  They could even remove the Yochi dungeon element and make the maps something found throughout the world by talking to specific Yochi as the game progresses.  Like the Dreamscapes in DQ6 mobile.

I wouldn't count on it, but I think there is a fair shot they just haven't revealed it yet, nor should they.  Why reveal everything up front?  They didn't even do that for the Japanese release initially.  Bits and pieces of major revelations, just to showcase what to expect.

Plus, if it is in, it will likely be expanded to cater to Japanese tastes, and further help entice secondary purchases from 3DS owners, and add that much extra incentive for PS4 owners who haven't purchased the game, or who did and might have a Switch, or are considering it.

Plus, there's all that talk about "Switch made for the Western market," and given certain additions and changes, and other statements made since 2015, they do pay attention to the fanbase.  I also do not doubt they are aware of the petition for the 3DS game (it's near 3k signatures now, which is much greater than DQ10 in much less time, though nothing like DQ7's), and the constant demands on their social media feed from a decent number of gamers for the 3DS version, even now.  So it would really tack on that extra salivating incentive for us if not just the 2D mode, but the major 3DS sidequest is in.

So I'd like to think so.  Plus the idea of a Definitive Edition already breaks precedent of "each version being unique," and having no definitive version of any release until this point. 

Edited by ignasia

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