Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
muddy120

What do you guys think of the DQ person who doesn't support the series because of views of Sugiyama

Recommended Posts

In my opinion, this kind of fan frustrates me for a number of reasons but what do you guys think of this type of person on the internet who won't support Dragon Quest because of the views of one man being Sugiyama.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I highly doubt there are a large quantity of fans like this and I think it’s rare to find them?

I could be wrong though as I haven’t met anyone like this. I think there idiots, there’s no homophobia in DQ games, or anything like that. Sugiyama is an idiot, nothing will change that, he will carry his beliefs to his grave soon enough. There will always be people in the world who thinks like he does, so it doesn’t surprise me TBH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was laughing when I was reading posts where they were saying that he was a bigot which I think they need to look the word up. To me I could care less what his personal views/opinions are. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Short on time. Will expand later.

As I've mentioned in the past, we as consumers have the right to vote with our wallet. Being a comic fan, there are certain creators I don't support, not necessarily solely because of their views, but how they treat others. A comic is different, though. It has a creative team of 1-6 people. Games can have hundreds. If people are truly offended by Sugiyama's views, if they don't want to support the game, that's their choice. Though I see many in the gaming press and punchlines like ResetEra using Sugiyama for shallow virtue signaling. This gives the series bad press it doesn't deserve. It cast so much of a shadow that Square Enix had to give a PR apology. Out of everyone working on the titles, Sugiyama is the least involved, and he's done less and less with every title. While I don't like his views, it's not fair to punish the hundreds of coders, modelers, and testers.

  • Like 4
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dwaine said:

Short on time. Will expand later.

As I've mentioned in the past, we as consumers have the right to vote with our wallet. Being a comic fan, there are certain creators I don't support, not necessarily solely because of their views, but how they treat others. A comic is different, though. It has a creative team of 1-6 people. Games can have hundreds. If people are truly offended by Sugiyama's views, if they don't want to support the game, that's their choice. Though I see many in the gaming press and punchlines like ResetEra using Sugiyama for shallow virtue signaling. This gives the series bad press it doesn't deserve. It cast so much of a shadow that Square Enix had to give a PR apology. Out of everyone working on the titles, Sugiyama is the least involved, and he's done less and less with every title. While I don't like his views, it's not fair to punish the hundreds of coders, modelers, and testers.

I mostly agree with this. Saying they can't support a game with the likes of Sugiyama on board is perfectly fine. It's certainly sad and frustrating to see people pass up a game but no big. I certainly think the sooner Sugiyama is out the better.

 

What I HATE seeing is people making dumb generalizations about the series and hiding behind their ire. "The music sucks anyway". I've seen people say that DQ is tainted and doesn't deserve to be repped in Smash because of him. I had a person go from "Sugiyama is an absolute monster of a human being and I just can't support paying for a DLC character knowing a little bit of money goes to him." which is fine, to, "The series sucks anyway, Chrono Trigger is a thousand times better. I'd rather have Yuffie, who I hate, than a DQ character." Not okay. Piss off with that nonsense 😠

Edited by Choppasmith
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All of those people are tumblr-brains, who cares what they think.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mefista said:

All of those people are tumblr-brains, who cares what they think.

Merry Christmas to you Mefista (and everyone else here).

----

So let's see, you have people who have an opinion and wish to express it by not buying a game?  Ok, that's their loss.  It's stupid because as mentioned by Dwaine one individual's outlook and views on certain topics is then impacting everyone else, and regardless of opinions, it's the actions taken within the context of making a product itself that ultimately should count towards whether something should be respected or not.

Benjamin Franklin was not opposed to slavery for most of his life.  Owning 6 until 1781, when he changed his mind after being exposed to a school with black children.  That altered his perception that black people were inferior to white people.  So should we ignore his personal research and dump his inventions, and all inventions made since then based on his work?  Should we toss out electricity as his kite experiment predates his position on slavery, by a good 29 years, when he felt blacks were inferior and it was in their best interest to work in bondage (and the Irish, as there were ample Irish slaves at the time in the US)?

Most of what our modern world is today is as a result of Franklin, including most of modern medicine (where I do have issues with certain practices, but in general terms he applied the scientific method first to medicine before it was done in Europe), because he was paying for bodies to be dug up and helped to craft and map the human body?  Leading to understanding of organs and tissue, and biological science as an actual science?  Most of which, again, was done during the period where he felt Blacks should be slaves?

I could give examples of scientists behaving badly, of swathes of them in the 1900's and 1800's who felt society were merely cretins, and should be enslaved by governmental forces.  Of inventors with opinions today that would be problematic.  Not a single invention today that we take for granted doesn't have the hands and mind of someone who could easily be considered "problematic," and just as bad if not far worse in their beliefs and even practices that they themselves partook in or directly supported that would be considered abhorrent by general society today.

It's one thing to shun an opinion, it's another thing to shun the work of the holder of that opinion, and it's no different to toss away the work of one individual because it's art as it is for another because it's science as it is for work that is deemed merely as entertainment.  I wonder what people would think of cars if they had any clue what Gerald T. Ford thought of the general populace, and why he decided to pay his employees just enough to buy his automobile, and no it's not because he like the American worker, it's because he realized rioting and picketing isn't productive for business, but he certainly didn't think highly of his employees by his personal statements.  Same with the Rockefeller family.  Standard Oil might be the life blood of modern society, and has helped develop a plethora of items that most of us cannot live without (even if there are far superior alternatives today and big oil has a hard time letting go, and governments are deeply in bed with them), but the majority of the heads of these companies care little for their workers or the people who purchase their goods.

Nevermind the number of powerful professors who have done a huge service to the sciences that have been part of societies bent on world domination and technocracy, like the Fabian Society.

So in the end, yes, as consumers they have this right, and they should express it if they feel a need to, but it doesn't alter what happens to the series.  It just hurts the games in general, it harms SE in general, it ignores Japanese culture (where the series might tank for such treatment), and it ignores the issue that all of DQ would require rewritten songs to avoid contract disputes and being sued, nevermind the fact that what a person says and their opinions in their personal lives are separate from their work and privacy and the freedom to speak and have a different opinion should be respected (the hypocrites on the left, right, and even the center should realize the "shoe is sometimes on the other foot" before opening their mouths about controversial opinions).  Plus he is one cog in a larger wheel, and it harms sales for a game for people who would like it.

Thankfully most people don't care what they think anyway, so, it isn't like it matters.  Ignoring idiots is often the best action, as loud-mouth brats tend to prefer the spotlight, and denying them this is often the equivalent of putting them in the corner and placing a pinwheel hat on their heads.

Or maybe just laughing at them and realizing they're extremists with extreme opinions, so why do they matter?  You can't stop them from having their opinions, but laughing and/or ignoring is often a good remedy to shut them down, and hope maybe they rethink their position or are more willing to talk about it.  If they want to talk, then just be ready with good thoughtful arguments.  Certainly has helped me with some friends to at least get them to question their beliefs and chill out.  I haven't done that in awhile, though the internet is a really poor forum for that type of discourse, as you can't see eye to eye and thus it lacks that human connection, irl is great.

Edited by ignasia
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



In my opinion, this kind of fan frustrates me for a number of reasons but what do you guys think of this type of person on the internet who won't support Dragon Quest because of the views of one man being Sugiyama.


Hit mute.

1. On the game if you're so offended.
2. On the people who do that. Don't need to read so much negatively in life.

07d96d66ca3f4a251276bdfc4a9be96b.jpg
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Plattym3 said:


 

 


Hit mute.

1. On the game if you're so offended.
2. On the people who do that. Don't need to read so much negatively in life.

07d96d66ca3f4a251276bdfc4a9be96b.jpg

 

This graph basically represents the entire internet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This graph basically represents the entire internet.
It's why I don't Internet much. Getting really sick of people on Facebook butthurt about the people butthurt by whatever that Christmas carol dumb stuff is going on. I just want to see kids opening gifts and what they're cooking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Plattym3 said:
26 minutes ago, eal said:
This graph basically represents the entire internet.

It's why I don't Internet much. Getting really sick of people on Facebook butthurt about the people butthurt by whatever that Christmas carol dumb stuff is going on. I just want to see kids opening gifts and what they're cooking.

On my end, since I don’t really read the news, I was totally unaware of this Baby, It’s Cold Outside thing until every one of my co-workers and my family were complaining about how people are too sensitive people. Wasn’t it just like one radio station that wasn’t gonna play it? I know that people were upset about someone at the Huffington Post calling Rudolph problematic, which is personally funny to me because it’s a joke in my family about how everyone in the special are jerks to him and that Santa especially is a douche.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On my end, since I don’t really read the news, I was totally unaware of this Baby, It’s Cold Outside thing until every one of my co-workers and my family were complaining about how people are too sensitive people. Wasn’t it just like one radio station that wasn’t gonna play it? I know that people were upset about someone at the Huffington Post calling Rudolph problematic, which is personally funny to me because it’s a joke in my family about how everyone in the special are jerks to him and that Santa especially is a douche.
Haha. I don't news either outside my wonderfully curated Google News feed, which is mainly football, science, and video games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Plattym3 said:
40 minutes ago, eal said:
On my end, since I don’t really read the news, I was totally unaware of this Baby, It’s Cold Outside thing until every one of my co-workers and my family were complaining about how people are too sensitive people. Wasn’t it just like one radio station that wasn’t gonna play it? I know that people were upset about someone at the Huffington Post calling Rudolph problematic, which is personally funny to me because it’s a joke in my family about how everyone in the special are jerks to him and that Santa especially is a douche.

Haha. I don't news either outside my wonderfully curated Google News feed, which is mainly football, science, and video games.

Haha, I’m the same. I don’t read/watch the news much, so when people ask if I’ve heard about X thing, I just tell them nope.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are certain game companies I don't support and it all comes down to how the heads of the company interact with people. I'm not talking about people like Kamiya, which is mostly done for persona and laughs. It's the ones that spew nastiness and insult fans on forums and Twitter. Not only does it hurt the product, it hurts the employees. Putting "my views are my own" or some jazz in a bio doesn't absolve you when you're the face of a company. That doesn't mean you can't be passionate or outspoken. There's a certain level of responsibility people seem to be missing. Arrogance and spite have replaced constructive dialogue. Sugiyama, however, doesn't act this way at all. If you want to know his views, you have to actively seek them out. As far as I know, he's never associated his views with the Dragon Quest brand.

That's what people are doing lately. It would be like saying supporting DQ supports real estate fraud because of Toriyama being named in the Paradise Papers. Both are hugely successful independent creators that are contracted to work on this series. Now if Yuji Horii was going around and saying those things and insulting people, that'd be one thing! That's not the case. Horii has always been friendly with the producers and community managers positively representing the brand. Sugiayama's views, while sad and unfortunate, is a tangent, convenient way to mar the series. So many of the people who make this stand think they're being so progressive; so woke. It's all just empty rhetoric. It doesn't help anyone.

  • Like 4
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a free country (for now). I'm surprised I didn't hear more griping about Sylvano's character. I wondered if DQ creators were told to add a gay main character by executives and the response was over the top Sylvano as a joke.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's a free country (for now). I'm surprised I didn't hear more griping about Sylvano's character. I wondered if DQ creators were told to add a gay main character by executives and the response was over the top Sylvano as a joke.
 
 
 
Why griping? Have you played DQVIII at all? Morrie, anyone? Especially in the 3DS version!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Red Dragon said:

It's a free country (for now). I'm surprised I didn't hear more griping about Sylvano's character. I wondered if DQ creators were told to add a gay main character by executives and the response was over the top Sylvano as a joke.

 

 

 

Jim Sterling loved Sylvando because of how campy he was. Maybe someone else might feel differently then he does. Not everyone is gonna have the same opinion.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jim Sterling loved Sylvando because of how campy he was. Maybe someone else might feel differently then he does. Not everyone is gonna have the same opinion.
It's my opinion that everyone should have the same option.

And thereby I've proven@eal correct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How can one describe Sylvando as "campy?"  That is literally the opposite of how I see him.  The 8th character, I can see that.  He's literally a cut+paste perfect warrior with a strong sense of honour, just have to direct him at the right bad guy and under the umbrella of the right cause, and he'll fight to the death.

Edited by ignasia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How can one describe Sylvando as "campy?"
I can see that. If you watch a B or C movie produced in 2018, I can imagine they'd have an over-the-top gay guy like him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Red Dragon said:

It's a free country (for now). I'm surprised I didn't hear more griping about Sylvano's character. I wondered if DQ creators were told to add a gay main character by executives and the response was over the top Sylvano as a joke.

In the Japanese version Sylvando was named Sylvia and used female pronouns for himself. Basically he was trying to be a woman.

1 hour ago, Plattym3 said:
1 hour ago, Red Dragon said:
It's a free country (for now). I'm surprised I didn't hear more griping about Sylvano's character. I wondered if DQ creators were told to add a gay main character by executives and the response was over the top Sylvano as a joke.
 
 
 

Why griping? Have you played DQVIII at all? Morrie, anyone? Especially in the 3DS version!

That’s more innuendo I’d say. The joke with Morrie is his poor choice of words due to his accent, and he does have 4 bunny girls (who are all sisters too) who adore him. Some of their dialogue definitely implies something goes on between all of them... 😏

And it’s hard to hate Morrie. The guy is so ridiculous but badass at the same time, and is a genuinely nice guy. Him being playable was one of the best additions to the 3DS version, and his skill set made it worth the effort to go through the Monster Arena. Though I could be biased since I did make that mini-guide to recruit him. 🤪

16 minutes ago, ignasia said:

How can one describe Sylvando as "campy?"  That is literally the opposite of how I see him.  The 8th character, I can see that.  He's literally a cut+paste perfect warrior with a strong sense of honour, just have to direct him at the right bad guy and under the umbrella of the right cause, and he'll fight to the death.

Have you seen his reactions to a certain magazine when looking for Rab? Or party chat with him when visiting Nautica in Act 3 (he even has a voiced line of “WHAT?!” when he realizes you were listening to him)? He can be uptight, but when he gets distracted it’s hilarious. Oh, and can’t forget when he and the hero meet up with Sylvando in Act 2. His confused reactions were pretty damn funny.

Edited by YangustheLegendaryBandit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, ignasia said:

How can one describe Sylvando as "campy?"  That is literally the opposite of how I see him.  The 8th character, I can see that.  He's literally a cut+paste perfect warrior with a strong sense of honour, just have to direct him at the right bad guy and under the umbrella of the right cause, and he'll fight to the death.

He has said in past podcasts that he loves really campy stuff like James from Team Rocket and the wrestler The Velveteen Dream. Just look at Jim Sterling’s own wrestling persona, Sterdust, to get an idea of what he means by campy.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've heard several people in person say they won't buy Dragon Quest because of Sugiyama, and that his music has gotten more and more terrible as the franchise has gone on. Some have said they couldn't even play DQXI because of this. It's sad to hear that, of course. I wish they could look past it because of what Dwaine expanded on above.

 

edit: I've found at least twice that the "bad music" stance is just a strawman for how they feel though.

Edited by Bururian
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I viewed Morrie as an over the top Italian character. Catherine and I got our own versions of that over the top stereotypes in DQIV when Taloon had a bad Oirish accent. I never saw Morrie as the bad late 1980's stereotype of a gay man (or of Saturday Night Live's "Lyle" for the straight version).

The more I thought about it  - I think what grates me a bit about Sylvando is his overuse of "honey" or "darling" more than the camp character (Lyle I thought was funny, and non of the gay folks I know actually talk like Sylvando). The only person allowed to call me "darling" or "honey" is my wife. That's it. No other women (or dudes). My first reaction to others on that is "I don't know you that well." Yes, I'm definitely from the Midwest. 

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Red Dragon said:

I viewed Morrie as an over the top Italian character. Catherine and I got our own versions of that over the top stereotypes in DQIV when Taloon had a bad Oirish accent. I never saw Morrie as the bad late 1980's stereotype of a gay man (or of Saturday Night Live's "Lyle" for the straight version).

The more I thought about it  - I think what grates me a bit about Sylvando is his overuse of "honey" or "darling" more than the camp character (Lyle I thought was funny, and non of the gay folks I know actually talk like Sylvando). The only person allowed to call me "darling" or "honey" is my wife. That's it. No other women (or dudes). My first reaction to others on that is "I don't know you that well." Yes, I'm definitely from the Midwest. 

 

 

I’m from the Midwest and I thought it was hilarious whenever Sylvando called the hero honey or darling.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...