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NeoDevilbane

Connections between Dragon Quests post-DQ VI?

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In the story, I mean. Obviously I-III is the Erdrick trilogy and IV-VI is "the Celestial Trilogy" (and can someone tell me exactly how IV connects to V and VI?)... there are no connections between VII, VIII, and IX, right? Or are there? If so, what? I'm really curious. One of the things I always loved about the DQ/DW games over the Final Fantasy games was how there was some continuance between games, and a sense of a saga.

I also see stuff about XI being a prequel to DQ III. Is that true?

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I think DQVIII is linked to III. There’s some evidence.

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4 hours ago, Sackchief said:

I think DQVIII is linked to III. There’s some evidence.

I read that Ramia is linked to it, the bird. Was that it?

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I read that Ramia is linked to it, the bird. Was that it?

Ramia and the orbs you need to gather heavily hint at it. Erdrick’s token is supposedly designed after Ramia.
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The Manga adaptation of DQVII claims that it is set in a far future of DQII. Kiefer being the descendant of DQII's Prince of Midenhall. The game also hints that since you can find a sword reaaally similar to Erdrick's sword (having the same stats too) in Melyor's Castle. 

If I recall correctly -which may not be the case-, in DQVIII the God Bird, Empyrea, says that she is known as Ramia in another world. Ramia being the God Bird that hatches in DQIII. Then again, the God Bird design changes from games to its remakes, making it rather difficult to know for sure what's canon. Like, the GBC remake of DQIII depicts Ramia as a peacock-like bird, while any other representation of her depicts her as she appears in DQVIII (and the Battle Road series game).

I'd even say that the Joker series is happening in a far future of DQVII (since, as aforementioned, it'd happen centuries after DQII). Description of some monsters, like Atlas ("Once opposed a certain trio of warriors while in the service of Hargon"), Dargonlord ("This monarch spoken in ancient lore was once bested by the legendary dragon warrior") or Orgodemir ("In ages past, he sought to become a god") makes it sounds as if those games (DQI, II, III, and VII) happened ages ago, but in this world. 

There are even pieces of evidence as to why the Joker series is not happening in a far future of the Zenith trilogy with the description of the Alabast Dragon: "This regal deity is known as the Zenith dragon on another plane of existence"). Plus, the "Tachyon Sphere" if I recall, if very similar in its design to the sphere of light's seen in DQIII and I. Tho of course, it could simply easter eggs of nodes to previous games. 

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It's my personal theory that the Ultimate Magic Zeppel was searching for in VII was somehow linked with the Secret of Evolution from IV, and that the Lefans are descendants of the Zenithians.

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On 12/2/2018 at 6:04 AM, Xiggy said:

The Manga adaptation of DQVII claims that it is set in a far future of DQII. Kiefer being the descendant of DQII's Prince of Midenhall. The game also hints that since you can find a sword reaaally similar to Erdrick's sword (having the same stats too) in Melyor's Castle. 

If I recall correctly -which may not be the case-, in DQVIII the God Bird, Empyrea, says that she is known as Ramia in another world. Ramia being the God Bird that hatches in DQIII. Then again, the God Bird design changes from games to its remakes, making it rather difficult to know for sure what's canon. Like, the GBC remake of DQIII depicts Ramia as a peacock-like bird, while any other representation of her depicts her as she appears in DQVIII (and the Battle Road series game).

I'd even say that the Joker series is happening in a far future of DQVII (since, as aforementioned, it'd happen centuries after DQII). Description of some monsters, like Atlas ("Once opposed a certain trio of warriors while in the service of Hargon"), Dargonlord ("This monarch spoken in ancient lore was once bested by the legendary dragon warrior") or Orgodemir ("In ages past, he sought to become a god") makes it sounds as if those games (DQI, II, III, and VII) happened ages ago, but in this world. 

There are even pieces of evidence as to why the Joker series is not happening in a far future of the Zenith trilogy with the description of the Alabast Dragon: "This regal deity is known as the Zenith dragon on another plane of existence"). Plus, the "Tachyon Sphere" if I recall, if very similar in its design to the sphere of light's seen in DQIII and I. Tho of course, it could simply easter eggs of nodes to previous games. 

Manga adaptation I'm not familiar with, so I'll take your word for it.  However if it does say that and Horii had actual input, I would dismiss it as it's not possible for that to be the case.

1) the creator of 2's world, Alefgard (which is both the name of the island and the whole world from what I can tell), is Rubiss.

2) the creator of 7's world, which has no given name, is God.  There is nothing in the lore that would suggest anything else.

3) that doesn't mean that Kiefer's family did not somehow come from Alefgard and warp into 7's world sometime in the past.  We already know Estard isn't nearly as old as most of the other kingdoms, as some do not recognize it.  So that is possible, but nothing in the actual game suggests this, or even hints at it.

What sword are you talking about in Dragon Quest VII?  The only castles with Swords you can find in DQVII are Gracos', with the Rippled Rapier, which looks and functions nothing like Erdrick's Sword (though is has similar attack stats if we're comparing DQ2's Erdrick's Sword), the Kings Blade in Estard Castle, which looks and functions nothing like Erdrick's Sword (though it's the closest sword in DQ7 to Erdrick's Blade, and is FAR in excess of power even comparing Erdrick's Sword in DQ2 to the Thunder Sword in DQ2 and Kingsblade to Okeanos Sword), and the Okeanos Sword in Orgodemir's palace, the strongest sword in the game, but it too is not relatable to Erdrick's Sword at all (it's special function is nothing like Erdrick's Sword in any appearance except maybe the FF12 easter egg Wyvern Hero's Blade).

Looking through all the different weapons, nothing either looks like Erdrick's Sword, nor functions like ANY version of the weapon from 1, 2, or 3.

Also...what place are you referring to with the name "Melyor", as I can't find any reference to that, nor place it.  I'm assuming a transliteration.

My point being there is no reference in DQ7 to DQ2 at all.  Horii himself stated DQ7 is a stand alone world, and the context of the world of 7 has nothing in common with 1~3.  There's no Rubiss either.  There is a Sea King, which correlates somewhat to DQ6's Poseidon, but not directly, even in function.

Rubiss is in DQ6 however, and the remakes of DQ3 have Zenithia, though in that sense it's implied Zenith is a spiritual overseer and thus it's castle is present in all worlds.  Rubiss' function in DQ6 is more of an overseer than a Creator/God-like figure.  It's never implied by her that she is the creator, only a spirit that lives underwater that needed to awaken the Hero so Murdaw could be defeated and the Hero was the only one with the power.

----

What are you basing Joker being tied into 7?  That wouldn't fit at all.  Hell, even Caravan Heart and the original DQM suggest the monster's worlds are distinct worlds tied into the mainline worlds.

Your usage of descriptions makes no sense.  They're talking about the DQ historical context, and that would also include the other bosses present, such as Psaro.  You're cherry picking what bosses you want tied in together to force a narrative that you want.  That's fine, but it's not accurate, as ALL the bosses present in the Joker series make the same bloody references to their history and actions in their own original respective games.  The point being we ignore that as it has no context or meaning in lieu of Joker's world itself and any direct connection to that world or interconnectivity in a literal sense between DQ worlds, as we would be ignoring any and all context, any and all statements made prior by Horii, such as 11 is connected to 1~3, but nothing was or has ever been even hinted at that 7 is...let alone 4~6 being connected, and his statements made when creating 7 and after 7's release that 7 was a stand alone world, and the same with 8, with the hints in 8 that the only connection between 3 and 8 is Ramia and Ramia outright indicates she came from a DIFFERENT WORLD, and the Ragnar + Torneko semi-easter egg implying they're from a completely different world, and the start of Monsters 1, 2, and even Caravan Heart indicating a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLD.

8's ties into 3 are based on a similar theme.  Ramia is able to traverse worlds and connect to worlds.  This was first presented in DQ3, where the underworld is tied into the overworld through Zoma's ripping a hole between them, and once he's defeated, there is no connection, meaning it was not a literal underworld, but only served as such due to magic.  That Alefgard is indeed its own world, its own universe, with its own sun and moon, and was only sealed off from its normal course due to Zoma taking over.  So worlds are tied by magic and portals, but they are separate worlds.

The easter eggs do exist to indicate there are portals between worlds, and some people know how to access them, such as Mori and his ability to communicate with Torneko and Ragnar, and that both of them have been back and forth.  Then with the Heroes games, and again the Monsters series.

There really isn't much more than that between worlds.

1~3+11+Builders 1+2 is one world.  4+5 is one world, 6 is spiritually connected to 4+5, 7 is its own world, 8 is its own world, 9 is its own world.  Joker 1+2 is its own world, Joker 3 is its own world, Monsters 1+2+Caravan is its own world, Heroes 1 is its own world, Heroes 2 is its own world.

 

All worlds are interconnected dimensionally, and many have their own dark-world, where it's distinct depending on the world:

 

1) 3's dark world is not a true dark world, it was forced into that position by Zoma's power

2) 4 and 5's dark world is a literal underworld, with a literal physical presence, though in 5 it takes on some distinct form in terms of taking its own space almost like an alternative universe, and yet it's physical.

3) 6's dark world is a subspace of reality created in Morty's mind and manifested into reality due to his power, and thus it changes on his whim, and cannot exist without him.

4) 7's dark world is like 4 and 5's in that it's a literal real underground world that is dug out of the dirt, and like 5, also has subspacial special properties, and there are alternative dimensions as per the post game dungeons.

5) 8's dark world is a mirror world that is a physical place, but is a dimensional world on the other side of a coin, existing on top of the normal world, only everything is literally black and white.  Totally new and cool concept.

6) 9's doesn't have a dark world, much like 1, 2, and 11 does not.  However 11 does have a series of testing grounds that function similarly to a dark world, that were crafted by the good guys as a permanent testing place.  However this wouldn't carry into the Erdrick trilogy.

 

I'm sorry I'm getting pissy, but I get really pet peevy when people start making #$*! up whole cloth to fit what they want.  I get hints and drawing conclusions based on subtle nuance, but that's different.  I get getting #$*! wrong at times because I do that a lot, but in this case, no.  I mean if you want to write fan fiction and claim it as your own creation to connect storylines together, sure, knock yourself out.  This however is gross misrepresentation of the story and that drives me up the bloody wall nuts.  So not asking to excuse my behaviour, just saying for me it's like someone taking a fork to a chalk board over and over and over and over again.  So for me, this is a tame approach. 

So I apologize for being a total dick in my presentation.

=====

@NeoDevilbane a few things

1) Yes 11 is a prequel to 3's storyline.  This was stated in Japan and the initial interviews in the US/EU prior to the game's release in both territories.  It's not exactly a secret.  Just don't ask how, and play the game to find out.  The how is the biggest reveal.

2) 4 and 5's world are directly connected.  However they're thousands of years apart.  They both have Esturk as their original big bad. They both have the secret of evolution as the core basis for growth.   They both have distinct landmarks.  Zenithia tower + Zenith castle + Zenith Dragon.  Zenith tower is in the same physical location in both games...roughly, with the center island in 5 being substantially larger than in 4.  The underworld access dungeon in 4 leading to the lowest point is replaced by the tallest mountain in the world, leading to the highest point, but in 5, like with 4, it's a place of abject evil, and a direct link to the dark lord in 5 in a physical sense, so that is an interesting link and one has to wonder what happened...maybe Zenith Dragon filled in the dungeon then pilled on as much dirt as possible to seal off the physical access route, thus 5's only access to the underworld is a portal.

There are three other direct linking elements.  OH, right, the nature of the Zenithian equipment.  Their form, design, and function.  Much like Erdrick's equipment they look similar (only DQ2 has some odd changes like how weak Erdrick's equipment is).

6 however, is not directly connected to either 4 or 5.  It does take place in the past, and they both have Zenithia, only the translators intentionally distinguish it by calling 4+5 Zenithia, due to the Zenith Dragon, and that Zenithia in 4 and 5 are PHYSICAL presences that imply a single castle in a single continuous world, and Cloudsgate whenever King Zenith is running the roost, and it's a purely Spiritual castle that interconnects all realms.

6's hero equipment is also distinct from 4 and 5.  The Zenithian Equipment looks like a redesign but lacks the same functionality.  Such equipment wouldn't change form and design for 4, then remain identical for some odd reason for several thousands of years.  That just makes no sense.  Especially when the connection to Cloudsgate Castle is a spiritual portal to the Spiritual realm, not a check at the top of the tower for the inhabitants (see: Zenith Dragon) to assure the hero is worthy by gaining all the Zenithian Equipment.

6's world is also metaphysical in nature, and the bad guy is metaphysical in nature, being a natural demon lord, rather than a being who uses a physical process to perfect himself.  Even his world in 6 is purely of his mind.

The connection to 6 from 4+5 is that 6's world is free of blight, and Zenithia's Dragon's birth heralds a new dawn of a split in the castle's nature from a pure spiritual overseer that links between worlds (as seen in 3), to a physical castle that oversees a single world.  The disappearance of the castle from 6's world even after the birth of the dragon implies the castle emerges physically in a completely different realm.

The nature of this meaning that 6 in terms of time is prior to 4 and 5, but in terms of relationship, are only spiritually connected.  The reason for this is Yuji Horii indicated he wanted to move away from trilogies when making 4~6, so made the links tenuous compared to 1~3 which are direct.  When he made 7 however, he wanted to completely split off from that format, so 7 was made a standalone world.  There are easter eggs though.

Oh right, there is one prophecy in 6 that alludes to the world of 4+5, and the remake of 6 has a special village where you can tie-in later on with characters from 4 or 5 by choosing to make that village like those future scenarios.  So the remake does emphasize the connectivity, but again, it's spiritual more than literal physical.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, ignasia said:

So not asking to excuse my behaviour [...] So I apologize for being a total dick in my presentation.

You absolutely don't have to apologize. Heck, I can understand your point quite easily. ^^

The Joker thing... Yeah the more I think about it, the more far-fetched it feels to me too. Dumb move from me, I'll give you that. I've realized that trying to see connections between games when it's just cameo or easter eggs is not that smart. Like, I know there's a sword in FFXII that resembles Erdrick's sword but linking this game to the DQ lore... Yeah, I'll pass. Just like I doubt the classic characters appearing in IX are the actual characters, but more likely ways to obtains their garbs and clothes. 

Some of those things I've said were stuff I could gather from the auto-translated pages of the Japanese Wikia (https://wikiwiki.jp/dqdic3rd/ this one most of the time), and I might have understood them sideways, due to the rather approximate translation.

About the sword, I was referring to this one: 王者のつるぎ (Kingsblade) from VII, which do bare a similar look (at least to me, the blade part specifically) to this one from III:  おうじゃのけん (Swords of Kings) as both of them, in these respective games, boost the attack by +120. But then again, I can understand people not seeing any resemblance. It's not as striking as Ramia's Sword and Zenith Sword for example.

Now, of course, I should assume that the canon of the DQ lore varies from people to people. Since the DQ universe hasn't been set in stones unlike the Zelda one, it can cause different point of views. If you take into account the games and just the games then the only games that are connected to each other would be XI, I, II, III, and Builder (and maybe CH since you visit II's world). 

However if you take into account books published by Enix and said to be the official past of some games like this one: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ドラゴンクエスト_精霊ルビス伝説 "Dragon Quest - Spirit Rubiss Legend" ('However, Enix at the time recognized this work as a positive history, and the history described in this work is considered to be the official setting of the Dragon Quest series."), and everything supervised by Yuji Hori, like Emblem of Roto (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Quest_Retsuden:_Roto_no_Monshō), its sequel and the third wheel, the manga adaptation of DQVII, then it becomes possible to make some links between different games. It'll always be speculation and theory at best tho since the canon can vary. 

Again, you absolutely don't have to apologize for speaking your mind. I should be the one apologizing for not being more cautious or precise in December when I posted my message. ^^

Edited by Xiggy
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Protip for myself: stop eating sugar.  I cut it out of my diet almost entirely, and starting eating it again for coffee....if I mix Sugar in the Raw with Heavy Cream (love Coffee with Heavy Cream), and my Chocolate Pinon Coffee, it's like dining in heaven.  It's soooo good.  Plus Sugar in the Raw + Heavy Cream, when mixed tastes almost exactly like Creme Brulee with little effort.  I don't know why, but the molassus must play a role.  In anycase, I get a little pissy on sugar.  So that adds a whole lot of extra stupid to the recipe.  For that I further apologize, especially as I did not take into account when you wrote your initial post Xiggy.

Yeah, there is some similarity in the hilt with the King's sword, and a little in the shape of the blade, but it's not quite an exact copy.  Hmm...interesting.  So I'm not 100% sure if this is original Toriyama artwork, except that the sword of Destruction IS original:

 

kings_sword.png

 

So I'll assume this is the original artwork for the Sword of Kings, the precursor original form of Erdrick's Sword before further embellishment.

Now, one thing I find interesting is that this looks more like Erdrick's Sword in terms of the hilt being curved, and the straight lines at the edges of the hilt on both sides.

However, a few interesting things.  The design aesthetic in the original DQ7 was rehashed for DQ11's revision of the Sword of Kings:

kings_sword.png

DQ7 3DS, from this site...the menu icon that shows up in the equipment list:

kingsblade.png

Though it looks a bit different...let me see if I can't pull that up here from DQ7 3DS when actually equipped:

D6_a_mtUYAAwGz-.jpg:large

There we go!

Yeah there are similarities and differences.  Let me see if I can't find DQ11's alteration of the original DQ3 design.  Have to use my own:

D6_beEzUcAAiY4y.jpg:large

So there are differences, but they certainly went out of their way to make the Kingsblade look nearly identical to the Sword of Kings.  Then went a step further and made sure the Sword of Kings looks even more like the Kingsblade.

So it seems like while DQ7 was initially set to be a stand alone game, the manga definitely influenced elements of connectivity.  Plus, as you state all versions of this weapon, including the DQ11 version, are exactly 120 Atk power.  Only the Kingsblade has no special function (in either version of DQ7).  However in DQ11 it gives +32 Charm and in DQ7 +55 Style.  So similar and different all at once.  Creating connectivity but not direct connectivity, kind of like, as you pointed out, the Sword of Ramias and the Zenith Sword, which are similar but distinct (Ramias is more similar in function however to the Okeanos Sword).

Swordoframias6.jpg

Zenithian_Sword.png

 

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1 hour ago, ignasia said:

For that I further apologize, especially as I did not take into account when you wrote your initial post Xiggy.

And again, you don't have to. There's no beef between us. 😁

 

1 hour ago, ignasia said:

So it seems like while DQ7 was initially set to be a stand alone game, the manga definitely influenced elements of connectivity

That's exactly what I mean, yep. It doesn't change what Horii said when he made the game. Nods and references are presents in every game, and it's my belief that the manga author seeing some of them decided after the initial work release, that it could/would nice to see them connected. The game still functions on its own really, as there are no really connection to any of the first three DQ. It's really the extended universe that connects them. 

The novel version and manga version of DQVII expand the initial game and add some stuff that weren't there un the game. Kinda like what official Doctor Who novel adaptation of episodes do (The Day of the Doctor for example, which see the Curator having much more scenes), or the DW comics, who ties some story lines together, when the TV stories weren't connected, or simply gives more importance to some characters that were seen just once (like the War Doctor and the 9th Doctor). And now I'm realizing that this is all gibberish of you don't watch the show. x) 

Oh and should you one day want to look for the chapters and volumes that display the connections between DQII and VII, it's in the 10th and 11th volumes of the manga. It's in Japanese, sadly, but the DQ specialized  Japanese wikia can be translated thanks to the navigator, and certainly helps figuring out what's going on. Or I can always send the passages right in your pm should you like to see 'em. ^^

Well, without further ado, i' m off watching the last of the horrendous GoT season 8 episode. \o

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On 5/20/2019 at 1:57 AM, Xiggy said:

Oh and should you one day want to look for the chapters and volumes that display the connections between DQII and VII, it's in the 10th and 11th volumes of the manga. It's in Japanese, sadly, but the DQ specialized  Japanese wikia can be translated thanks to the navigator, and certainly helps figuring out what's going on. Or I can always send the passages right in your pm should you like to see 'em. ^^

But so... VII is the same world as in DQ I-III? Or what?

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The timeline for Zenithia is as follows: VI (Birth of the Zenith Dragon at the end and Zenithia's ascent from the fading Dream World)<IV<V (Multiple references to IV's events and hero throughout the game).

There is much debate on this but I've always assumed the world in IV-VI is the same world that simply has continental shifts/changes between each installment. Every world map has an island with a Zenith tower in the center of the world.

As for the other links--they are vague and more easter eggs than anything else. The only REAL connection is VIII and III with Ramia's inclusion. And it IS the same Ramia as she mentions something along the lines of flying through other worlds/meeting other heroes.

IX has MANY links to the other games in the form of the grotto legacy bosses but--again--those may be non-canon easter eggs more than anything.

I heard XI is a prequel to III, I and II but I don't know the full specifics as I haven't played beyond the Switch demo yet.

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On 12/2/2018 at 8:04 AM, Xiggy said:

The Manga adaptation of DQVII claims that it is set in a far future of DQII. Kiefer being the descendant of DQII's Prince of Midenhall. The game also hints that since you can find a sword reaaally similar to Erdrick's sword (having the same stats too) in Melyor's Castle. 

If I recall correctly -which may not be the case-, in DQVIII the God Bird, Empyrea, says that she is known as Ramia in another world. Ramia being the God Bird that hatches in DQIII. Then again, the God Bird design changes from games to its remakes, making it rather difficult to know for sure what's canon. Like, the GBC remake of DQIII depicts Ramia as a peacock-like bird, while any other representation of her depicts her as she appears in DQVIII (and the Battle Road series game).

I'd even say that the Joker series is happening in a far future of DQVII (since, as aforementioned, it'd happen centuries after DQII). Description of some monsters, like Atlas ("Once opposed a certain trio of warriors while in the service of Hargon"), Dargonlord ("This monarch spoken in ancient lore was once bested by the legendary dragon warrior") or Orgodemir ("In ages past, he sought to become a god") makes it sounds as if those games (DQI, II, III, and VII) happened ages ago, but in this world. 

There are even pieces of evidence as to why the Joker series is not happening in a far future of the Zenith trilogy with the description of the Alabast Dragon: "This regal deity is known as the Zenith dragon on another plane of existence"). Plus, the "Tachyon Sphere" if I recall, if very similar in its design to the sphere of light's seen in DQIII and I. Tho of course, it could simply easter eggs of nodes to previous games. 

Wow...I never played Caravan hearts but I read about it and now the connection to II with that game makes much more sense.

So...are they basically saying that the world of Torland in DQ II is actually the SAME world as VII? As in--VII is a far future version of the same world from the Erdrick series?! If so...wow...

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On 5/19/2019 at 2:45 PM, ignasia said:

Manga adaptation I'm not familiar with, so I'll take your word for it.  However if it does say that and Horii had actual input, I would dismiss it as it's not possible for that to be the case.

1) the creator of 2's world, Alefgard (which is both the name of the island and the whole world from what I can tell), is Rubiss.

2) the creator of 7's world, which has no given name, is God.  There is nothing in the lore that would suggest anything else.

3) that doesn't mean that Kiefer's family did not somehow come from Alefgard and warp into 7's world sometime in the past.  We already know Estard isn't nearly as old as most of the other kingdoms, as some do not recognize it.  So that is possible, but nothing in the actual game suggests this, or even hints at it.

What sword are you talking about in Dragon Quest VII?  The only castles with Swords you can find in DQVII are Gracos', with the Rippled Rapier, which looks and functions nothing like Erdrick's Sword (though is has similar attack stats if we're comparing DQ2's Erdrick's Sword), the Kings Blade in Estard Castle, which looks and functions nothing like Erdrick's Sword (though it's the closest sword in DQ7 to Erdrick's Blade, and is FAR in excess of power even comparing Erdrick's Sword in DQ2 to the Thunder Sword in DQ2 and Kingsblade to Okeanos Sword), and the Okeanos Sword in Orgodemir's palace, the strongest sword in the game, but it too is not relatable to Erdrick's Sword at all (it's special function is nothing like Erdrick's Sword in any appearance except maybe the FF12 easter egg Wyvern Hero's Blade).

Looking through all the different weapons, nothing either looks like Erdrick's Sword, nor functions like ANY version of the weapon from 1, 2, or 3.

Also...what place are you referring to with the name "Melyor", as I can't find any reference to that, nor place it.  I'm assuming a transliteration.

My point being there is no reference in DQ7 to DQ2 at all.  Horii himself stated DQ7 is a stand alone world, and the context of the world of 7 has nothing in common with 1~3.  There's no Rubiss either.  There is a Sea King, which correlates somewhat to DQ6's Poseidon, but not directly, even in function.

Rubiss is in DQ6 however, and the remakes of DQ3 have Zenithia, though in that sense it's implied Zenith is a spiritual overseer and thus it's castle is present in all worlds.  Rubiss' function in DQ6 is more of an overseer than a Creator/God-like figure.  It's never implied by her that she is the creator, only a spirit that lives underwater that needed to awaken the Hero so Murdaw could be defeated and the Hero was the only one with the power.

----

What are you basing Joker being tied into 7?  That wouldn't fit at all.  Hell, even Caravan Heart and the original DQM suggest the monster's worlds are distinct worlds tied into the mainline worlds.

Your usage of descriptions makes no sense.  They're talking about the DQ historical context, and that would also include the other bosses present, such as Psaro.  You're cherry picking what bosses you want tied in together to force a narrative that you want.  That's fine, but it's not accurate, as ALL the bosses present in the Joker series make the same bloody references to their history and actions in their own original respective games.  The point being we ignore that as it has no context or meaning in lieu of Joker's world itself and any direct connection to that world or interconnectivity in a literal sense between DQ worlds, as we would be ignoring any and all context, any and all statements made prior by Horii, such as 11 is connected to 1~3, but nothing was or has ever been even hinted at that 7 is...let alone 4~6 being connected, and his statements made when creating 7 and after 7's release that 7 was a stand alone world, and the same with 8, with the hints in 8 that the only connection between 3 and 8 is Ramia and Ramia outright indicates she came from a DIFFERENT WORLD, and the Ragnar + Torneko semi-easter egg implying they're from a completely different world, and the start of Monsters 1, 2, and even Caravan Heart indicating a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLD.

8's ties into 3 are based on a similar theme.  Ramia is able to traverse worlds and connect to worlds.  This was first presented in DQ3, where the underworld is tied into the overworld through Zoma's ripping a hole between them, and once he's defeated, there is no connection, meaning it was not a literal underworld, but only served as such due to magic.  That Alefgard is indeed its own world, its own universe, with its own sun and moon, and was only sealed off from its normal course due to Zoma taking over.  So worlds are tied by magic and portals, but they are separate worlds.

The easter eggs do exist to indicate there are portals between worlds, and some people know how to access them, such as Mori and his ability to communicate with Torneko and Ragnar, and that both of them have been back and forth.  Then with the Heroes games, and again the Monsters series.

There really isn't much more than that between worlds.

1~3+11+Builders 1+2 is one world.  4+5 is one world, 6 is spiritually connected to 4+5, 7 is its own world, 8 is its own world, 9 is its own world.  Joker 1+2 is its own world, Joker 3 is its own world, Monsters 1+2+Caravan is its own world, Heroes 1 is its own world, Heroes 2 is its own world.

 

All worlds are interconnected dimensionally, and many have their own dark-world, where it's distinct depending on the world:

 

1) 3's dark world is not a true dark world, it was forced into that position by Zoma's power

2) 4 and 5's dark world is a literal underworld, with a literal physical presence, though in 5 it takes on some distinct form in terms of taking its own space almost like an alternative universe, and yet it's physical.

3) 6's dark world is a subspace of reality created in Morty's mind and manifested into reality due to his power, and thus it changes on his whim, and cannot exist without him.

4) 7's dark world is like 4 and 5's in that it's a literal real underground world that is dug out of the dirt, and like 5, also has subspacial special properties, and there are alternative dimensions as per the post game dungeons.

XI's world is the same world from 1-3? Really? I wasn't aware of that. I knew this was a part of the Erdrick saga but I didn't know it was the literal same world. Perhaps that's why it's a mainly a singular Pangaea-esque landmass? Because the continents have yet to fully split into the world we know from II? Interesting...

I also love your talk of the Dark Worlds because I'm a huge fan of the Dark Worlds in this series.

About VII--I was always confused about what actually IS the Dark World of that game. There is the one world where you fight a boss on that platform connected to a giant chain link. That's not the dark world, is it? There is also another world where you access via the excavation site that transports you to Orgodemir's lair and a strange dark void full of floating platforms where you fight Orgodemir in the past. Is THAT the Dark World you're referring to? I'm assuming so because the robots in Falrod are said to descend from the Dark World and those same robots are present in that Orgodemir lair in the past. Can you clarify that?

Also--are you sure the world of VI isn't the same one from IV-V? Yes, it looks different but I always assumed that was due to continental shifts. There is still a Gottside Island-type location with a Zenith tower structure, so I just assumed it was a younger version of the world from IV and V.

Also, can you finally put this debate to rest for me? You seem to be one of the most knowledgeable people here regarding this series: Is Zenithia a fragment of the Dream World? This has bugged me for years now.

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I would say more specifically, 3's initial world is 11's world, but due to Zoma, there is that connection to Alefgard that's erased at the end when Alefgard is returned to its own sun, and Rubiss completes it (the main map we know in 2).  However they're still somehow connected.  We're never given an actual world name for the first world in 3.  It just looks like Earth.

It's also one of those scenarios that plays out like 4+5+6 in the way it connects.

1)

Spoiler

Yggdrasil is in the same position as the Dragon Queen in 3, which would make sense with the ominous premonition about the eventual Dragonlord and the really old fan theory that the egg the Dragon Queen births on her death, is the Dragonlord.  There is no Yggdrasil in DQ3, only a spot where one can find leaves, or it's just a baby sapling, which is why it's buried in trees.  The Dragon Queen's castle is also nestled deep within a circle of mountains, and requires the rainbow feathered bird to access, much as Yggdrasil requires the rainbow road.

2)

Spoiler

Aliahan is in the same place as Nautica, which is kind of an inverse of the whole Atlantis and Mu lores, which Aliahan is playing off of.  Cobblestone matches with Lancel, and it's funny in that like with DQ's 4+5 and both the deepest dungeon in 4, is the same place as the tallest mountain in 5, Cobblestone Tor is the highest peak in 11, used as a coming of age ceremony, and the hometown of the hero, Lancel has the Navel of Earth, a deep dungeon going into the Earth, and used as a form of heroic challenge, designed only for the true hero.  The laid back Lonalulu is in between where Lazumi is, the laid-back town of sky watchers, and the Pirate's Den.  Heliodor

3)

Spoiler

Both Erdrea and Earth have 6 orbs (DQ8 also has them, and 7 at that, with the Gold Orb), and the same colour pattern.  Though they're connected to different things.  3's it's to awaken the rainbow-coloured bird Lamia to climb high in the air to reach the castle of Baramos, the "main" boss we find is only a mere creation of the true boss who exists in the dark world, Alefgard.  11's is to generate a rainbow road to climb high in the air to reach Yggdrasil to seek the Sword of Light, only to be accosted by the "main" boss, Mordegon, who reveals himself finally, and who we learn was only created by the true main boss, who came from the abyssal plane, a dark and cold universe seeking to swallow up all light.

4)

Spoiler

The Super Sword of Light, the original weapon used by the Hero, with the same properties as the "Sphere of Light," in DQ3 (and it's also implied Zoma destroyed the first Erdrick's Sword because it had the ability to nullify his special barrier), and the whole point of the Sphere of Light is because Zoma has a super barrier that nothing can pass, and is the last act of the Dragon Queen.  The power of the Luminary, which is what generates the power inherent to the Super Sword of Light (and the other two Swords of Light that are present in the DQ11 storyline, two of which the Luminary we play as created), stems from the Yggdragon.

5)

Spoiler

At the end of DQ11, the Hero's mom closes a book at around the half-way point.  She's also sporting the same hair colour as Serenica, but with Brown roots (dyed/wig).  The point where the book closes, is the crux point in DQ11, where the party places the orbs to access Yggdrasil.  This is so we're left wondering what the true ending really is...did the original timeline in 11 actually disappear, or did it continue onward without the Luminary and thus leading to the lack of a Luminary in 3's world, or is the real ending the true actual real ending that leads into DQ3's storyline waaaaaaaaay down the line, and because of Zoma's initial attack, theft and destruction of the original Sword of Light, and Yggdragon (now Dragon Queen) being ancient, no longer needing Yggdrasil to maintain life, and incapable of creating a new Luminary, could only muster the power for the Sphere of Light.

There's also the Scion of Erdrick in the end, holding Erdrick's Sword, which looks like the Sword of Light and Super Sword of Light (not the Supreme Sword of Light).

Then there's Erdrick's Shield, which is called Erdwin's Shield.  The only relic in DQ11 with Erdrick's symbol (Erdwin's is different...also bird-like).  The Luminary we play as, is also called the first Erdrick...leading into the whole "who knows that one I might turn to evil," from Yggdragon, and the "Scion of Erdrick" on a hill holding Erdrick's Sword, and the clear implication that this title will resonate forever and anon.  Though it is curious that Erdrick is granted in Alefgard, not the upper world, as a title. 

6)

I don't recall if the original Sword of Light that Zoma destroys is found in the upper world, but I remember that being the case.  Not from Tantegel, though I could be very wrong.

========

The amount of plate techtonics and shifts necessary to alter the world feels much like 4 and 5.  We know 4+5 is supposed to be the exact same world, but wow are the changes drastic.  It's the same here, with 11 and 3.

So in that sense, we can say it's more like 6, with the ending, and the book, it's more fanservice and spiritually connected, while also implying physically connected.  Leading to all sorts of fan speculation.

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1 hour ago, ignasia said:

I would say more specifically, 3's initial world is 11's world, but due to Zoma, there is that connection to Alefgard that's erased at the end when Alefgard is returned to its own sun, and Rubiss completes it (the main map we know in 2).  However they're still somehow connected.  We're never given an actual world name for the first world in 3.  It just looks like Earth.

It's also one of those scenarios that plays out like 4+5+6 in the way it connects.

1)

  Hide contents

Yggdrasil is in the same position as the Dragon Queen in 3, which would make sense with the ominous premonition about the eventual Dragonlord and the really old fan theory that the egg the Dragon Queen births on her death, is the Dragonlord.  There is no Yggdrasil in DQ3, only a spot where one can find leaves, or it's just a baby sapling, which is why it's buried in trees.  The Dragon Queen's castle is also nestled deep within a circle of mountains, and requires the rainbow feathered bird to access, much as Yggdrasil requires the rainbow road.

2)

  Hide contents

Aliahan is in the same place as Nautica, which is kind of an inverse of the whole Atlantis and Mu lores, which Aliahan is playing off of.  Cobblestone matches with Lancel, and it's funny in that like with DQ's 4+5 and both the deepest dungeon in 4, is the same place as the tallest mountain in 5, Cobblestone Tor is the highest peak in 11, used as a coming of age ceremony, and the hometown of the hero, Lancel has the Navel of Earth, a deep dungeon going into the Earth, and used as a form of heroic challenge, designed only for the true hero.  The laid back Lonalulu is in between where Lazumi is, the laid-back town of sky watchers, and the Pirate's Den.  Heliodor

3)

  Hide contents

Both Erdrea and Earth have 6 orbs (DQ8 also has them, and 7 at that, with the Gold Orb), and the same colour pattern.  Though they're connected to different things.  3's it's to awaken the rainbow-coloured bird Lamia to climb high in the air to reach the castle of Baramos, the "main" boss we find is only a mere creation of the true boss who exists in the dark world, Alefgard.  11's is to generate a rainbow road to climb high in the air to reach Yggdrasil to seek the Sword of Light, only to be accosted by the "main" boss, Mordegon, who reveals himself finally, and who we learn was only created by the true main boss, who came from the abyssal plane, a dark and cold universe seeking to swallow up all light.

4)

  Hide contents

The Super Sword of Light, the original weapon used by the Hero, with the same properties as the "Sphere of Light," in DQ3 (and it's also implied Zoma destroyed the first Erdrick's Sword because it had the ability to nullify his special barrier), and the whole point of the Sphere of Light is because Zoma has a super barrier that nothing can pass, and is the last act of the Dragon Queen.  The power of the Luminary, which is what generates the power inherent to the Super Sword of Light (and the other two Swords of Light that are present in the DQ11 storyline, two of which the Luminary we play as created), stems from the Yggdragon.

5)

  Hide contents

At the end of DQ11, the Hero's mom closes a book at around the half-way point.  She's also sporting the same hair colour as Serenica, but with Brown roots (dyed/wig).  The point where the book closes, is the crux point in DQ11, where the party places the orbs to access Yggdrasil.  This is so we're left wondering what the true ending really is...did the original timeline in 11 actually disappear, or did it continue onward without the Luminary and thus leading to the lack of a Luminary in 3's world, or is the real ending the true actual real ending that leads into DQ3's storyline waaaaaaaaay down the line, and because of Zoma's initial attack, theft and destruction of the original Sword of Light, and Yggdragon (now Dragon Queen) being ancient, no longer needing Yggdrasil to maintain life, and incapable of creating a new Luminary, could only muster the power for the Sphere of Light.

There's also the Scion of Erdrick in the end, holding Erdrick's Sword, which looks like the Sword of Light and Super Sword of Light (not the Supreme Sword of Light).

Then there's Erdrick's Shield, which is called Erdwin's Shield.  The only relic in DQ11 with Erdrick's symbol (Erdwin's is different...also bird-like).  The Luminary we play as, is also called the first Erdrick...leading into the whole "who knows that one I might turn to evil," from Yggdragon, and the "Scion of Erdrick" on a hill holding Erdrick's Sword, and the clear implication that this title will resonate forever and anon.  Though it is curious that Erdrick is granted in Alefgard, not the upper world, as a title. 

6)

  Hide contents

I don't recall if the original Sword of Light that Zoma destroys is found in the upper world, but I remember that being the case.  Not from Tantegel, though I could be very wrong.

 

========

The amount of plate techtonics and shifts necessary to alter the world feels much like 4 and 5.  We know 4+5 is supposed to be the exact same world, but wow are the changes drastic.  It's the same here, with 11 and 3.

So in that sense, we can say it's more like 6, with the ending, and the book, it's more fanservice and spiritually connected, while also implying physically connected.  Leading to all sorts of fan speculation.

Wow, that's for the massive detail! It's just crazy to think of the world of 11 being an ancient Earth from 11 before the full continental shifts. I also find it intriguing in regards to what you said about Nautica/Aliahan.

Either way, I love that XI is essentially the "Skyward Sword" of the Dragon Quest series.

Also, in regards to what you said about the "Dark World" in VII--are you referring to Orgodemir's lair in the floating orange-black void that you access via the Excavation Cave pedestal? The one that transports you to Orgodemir's world in the past?

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Yes, that Dark World.

Though I guess we can say VII has two dark worlds.  That one, in an ethereal subspace, from a plate found deep underground, and a literal physical underground chamber at the end of the final dungeon.  Though it's possible that due to the boss room being accessed through a portal, that it's the same original dark world we visited earlier, from the dig site, just altered over time by his minions, to suit his needs.

Edited by ignasia
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On 5/19/2019 at 2:45 PM, ignasia said:

6) 9's doesn't have a dark world, much like 1, 2, and 11 does not.

Wouldn't the Realm of the Mighty qualify? It's essentially a morphed/corrupt version of the Realm of the Almighty but it's in a darkened state. If anything, it's reminiscent of Alefgard in III as being a once-light world that was corrupted.

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33 minutes ago, ignasia said:

Yes, that Dark World.

Though I guess we can say VII has two dark worlds.  That one, in an ethereal subspace, from a plate found deep underground, and a literal physical underground chamber at the end of the final dungeon.  Though it's possible that due to the boss room being accessed through a portal, that it's the same original dark world we visited earlier, from the dig site, just altered over time by his minions, to suit his needs.

Yeah, that part in the final battle seems to transition to a void in space in the 3DS version. You can actually see the world below you in that if I recall. Looks like a portal in space directly over the planet.

The other realm I was referring to was the one at the top of the tower in the Buckenham region where you follow those glowing monster footprints. They lead you to another dark world type location where a giant stone platform is being held in place by a chain link.

That's one aspect of VII that I loved: all this inter-dimensional hopping.

PS: I just wanted to say it's nice to FINALLY find someone here who seems to be as interested in all those little extra worlds/dimensions in these Dragon Quest games as I am. While I haven't played XI beyond the demo so far, I know from youtube videos that there is a world you access from within a mural of some sort. It reminded me of DQVII when I saw it. My retail copy of XI arrives tomorrow but I don't mind you guys spoiling me on the game as I've been binging videos of it on Youtube, LOL! And no--it won't spoil my experience. I did the same thing for VII before playing it and the experience was still every bit as magical as DQ games I went into cold.

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23 hours ago, NeoDevilbane said:

But so... VII is the same world as in DQ I-III? Or what?

 

5 hours ago, ErdrickRotoLotoOrtega said:

So...are they basically saying that the world of Torland in DQ II is actually the SAME world as VII? As in--VII is a far future version of the same world from the Erdrick series?! If so...wow...

Not Torland no, but the world from which Erdrick came from, the upperworld, the one that looks just like Earth. 

At least that's what the manga of DQVII wants to tell. And I for one really like this idea. In the manga Kiefer is the latest descendant of Erdrick, and this might be why Magarugi/Gisvarg Caravan Heart's last boss, wanted him to come in Torland in the first place, because as the descendant of the Legendary Hero he would only succeed in bringing her/him the orbs of Erdrick. 

This is also emphasised in the post game of Caravan Heart. When Kiefer is about to fight a resurrected Dragonlord, the latter says that he can smell the blood of Erdrick, and that he does not like this stench. 

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9 minutes ago, Xiggy said:

 

Not Torland no, but the world from which Erdrick came from, the upperworld, the one that looks just like Earth. 

At least that's what the manga of DQVII wants to tell. And I for one really like this idea. In the manga Kiefer is the latest descendant of Erdrick, and this might be why Magarugi/Gisvarg Caravan Heart's last boss, wanted him to come in Torland in the first place, because as the descendant of the Legendary Hero he would only succeed in bringing her/him the orbs of Erdrick. 

This is also emphasised in the post game of Caravan Heart. When Kiefer is about to fight a resurrected Dragonlord, the latter says that he can smell the blood of Erdrick, and that he does not like this stench. 

Kiefer a descendant of Erdrick? Interesting...

If not for him, the time travel mission never would have happened, so I can see why it took an Erdrick to get the mission off the ground.

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So as far as I'm concerned, in order comes: 

1)

Spoiler
 
 
Spoiler

Seirei Rubiss Densetsu novel/manga about Rubiss' childhood, and her love story with the boy named Dialto. The latter revealing at the end that his true/human name is actually Roto/Erdrick. However due to him not becoming a god he eventually dies of old age, but Rubiss makes so that he would reincarnate later, like when the world needs him or something. It isn't really clear in the story. 

Basically the spirit world crashes on the mortal realm, most of the spirits die, and Rubiss lives on, with her pet dragon (a golden one, who is also a female dragon...

2)

Spoiler

Every part of Dragon Quest XI. The ancient past, with the female golden Dragon battling stuff, the Heroes of old, etc. 

Then we go maybe centuries later, to the age of a game that hasn't been released yet: the upcoming Dragon Quest Monsters where you play kid Erik and Mia. 

We continue to follow Erik in the one-shot manga about him shortly before DQXI (Tōzokutachi no Banka). During the manga DQXI starts, and the two branch off when Erik meets the Luminar for the first time. 

DQXI happens. Luminary does one thing, that leads, in my personnal canon to...

3) 

Spoiler
 
Spoiler

"A world without the Luminary"

Erik picks up the broken part of the Sword of Light that didn't make it to the past, and over time reuse it to forge a sword that would one day become Ramia's Sword.

Eons pass, and Yggdragon eventually dies alongside her unhatched egg. The castle she lived on gets either destroyed or abandoned. At some point Mortamort, wishing to conquer the world, creates a parallel world, mixing dreams and afterlife together (the dream world is called "phantom world" in Japanese which makes some sense when we realize that lots of people and places in the dream world are dead people in the real world). 

DQVI happens. At the end, Zenithia materializes from the dream world to the real world, reviving Yggdragon's progeny: the Zenith Dragon. 

At some point, Estark discovers the secret of evolution and becomes the superboss we all know. Zenith Dragon battles him and manages to beat him, but the world has been damaged so much that Zenith Dragon decides not to come down on the human world ever again. Countries and continents have been wrecked, leading to...

4)

Spoiler
 
Spoiler

DQIV ! A Zenithian woman fells from the sky and in love with a woodcutter, Zenith Dragon gets pissed and Zap the woodcutter. The boy or girl becomes the Hero. On the other side of the planet, Rose gets killed by people sent by Aamon so that Psaro would focus a little bit more on killing Humans, and oh boy does he gets to it. Some manslayering later, Psaro obtains the secret of evolution but gets twacked by the Hero, who has obtained the Zenith Sword (once Ramia's Sword) and his Chosen. 

Psaro gets revived, however, and together whit the Hero and the boys go and Kazap Aamon's plan. Rose also gets revived, Zenith Dragon is pleased with mankind once again and everything is well that ends well really.

After that Torneko goes on his own adventures on the Dungeons mini-series. What fun!

5)

Spoiler
 
Spoiler

Centuries later, DQV happens. Nimzo, once a man, wants to rediscover the secret of evolution to topple the gods for reasons that are his alone. Pankraz, on the other hand, is bored of using his every night and wishes to get his wife back. He sadly gets killed, the Hero, his son, becomes a slave. What fun! 

He wants to break free and actually do so, finds a waifu but then actually has to marry one among three. Thankfully the DS remake allows him to marry a different one in each save. Triple fun! Hero and waifu (insert number here) have lots of fun and soon get kids. Then they have much less fun. What a revolting development! 

The manga Tales from Zenithia takes place here and follows the tw kids as they venture the world looking for their parents with the help of Sancho. They eventually do so and the son reveals to his father that he's the actual hero of the game. Nimzo gets defeated. The end.

6)

Spoiler
 
Spoiler

"A world with a Luminary"

The Luminary wakes up in his younger self, after leaving a devastated world behind him. The second part of DQXI happens, the party defeats the bad guy and they're all super happy. 

Yggdragon the warn Luminary that one day she might turn evil, and will then need him or one of his descendant or maybe a reincarnation to stop her should this happen. What a buzzkill. 

Eons pass. At some point, Mu gets destroyed and sink into the depth of the ocean. Rubiss still around, decides that the people of the continent weren't all bad and some should be saved. She then creates Torland a world within a world and places most of Mu's inhabitants on this new world. There she becomes the main deity and receives prayers on a regular basis. Other Mu inhabitants end up living in Zipang. 

Sadly for the people of Torland, at some point, Zoma arrived. Big bugger plunged this world into darkness and only Alefgard was left habitable. Zoma then sent his right hand, Baramos to conquer the upper world for him. The famous warrior Ortega then went on a mission to beat the crap out of Baramos but failed miserably, leaving his son to finish the job, years later. So you guessed it, DQIII happens.

Hero kills Baramos, wakes up Ramia, travels to the Dragon Queen's palace and gets the Orb of Light. Then goes to Alefgard, straight to Zoma's castle, and beat the crap out of him too thanks to the Orb of Light.

7)

Spoiler
 
Spoiler

Years after Erdrick killed Zoma, he gets three children, Loran, Carmen, and Rosa. His two sons go live on the upper world: Carmen in the Dragon Queen's castle and Loran in Baramo'sn while Rosa gets to live in Zoma's castle now called Tantagel. Everything is all and fine until...

Emblem of Roto happens. Evil awakens again, the three descendants of Erdrick, Arus and his cousin Aster have to battle against their other cousin, Jagan who has fallen to the dark side. The Lord of Terror has brought to him some fierce general and amongst them is a young Dragonlord. In this manga, we learn that Gorgona another general of the Lord of Terror, actually stole the Dragon Queen's egg and taught Dragonlord the philosophy of Malroth among many others, resulting in him also joining the dark side. 

Eventually, Jagan is cleansed of evil and feel the blood of Erdrick in his veins turning him good again. As Dragonlord learns about his lineage, his mother being a sacred being he himself ought to be a good guy, he leaves the Lord of Terror's army and decides he wants to get the Orb of Light so he can make Alefgard a suitable place for monsters. Arus, Alan (Jagan's birth name) and Aster eventually kill the Lord of Terror. A Yggdrasil's nut falls on the Lord of Terror's dying body and the nut consumes him to grow into a full Yggdrasil, "resurrecting" Rubiss in the process. 

25 years pass and we're in the Emblem of Erdrick: Heir of the Crest era. Still not over in France and definitely not in Japan either. Arus is around 40 years old now, and this story's heroes are Aros and Anis, the twin brother and sister of Aster and Alan.

8 )

Spoiler
 
Spoiler

Dragonlord eventually manages to get his hands on the Orb of Light, and much like Zoma in the past cuts Alefgard from the rest of Torland. He kidnaps Princess Gwaelin too, just to piss off the king. Fortunately for the latter, a descendant of Erdrick, and of Arus apparently, was around and offers to free the land of the evil Dragonlord, to which the king said: "heck yeah". 

Princess is saved, Dragonlord is defeated, the light comes back and so does peace if the Hero refuses the villain's offer, leading to DQII. But if he accepts...

DQ Builders. Hero accepts Dragonlord's offer and gets half of the world in exchange. Another descendant of Erdrick (which must have porked all around the globe at this rate) saves the day by rebuilding the world, and eventually by defeating the Dragonlord. Upon saving the world, his counterpart from the timeline where Hero defeated Dragonlord in DQI dreams of the event of Builders. Waking up, he then resumes the merging of the town and castle of Tentagel, which leads to...

9)

Spoiler
 
Spoiler

A century after DQI, Kaos the evil priest of Malroth starts his shenanigans and sends his minions attacking Castle Moonbrook. After that the event DQII takes place. Soon after, on Torland, DQ Builders 2 happens too. The cult of Kaos do some stuff yadayadayada (haven't finished the game yet)

After the defeat of Malroth, the Prince of Midenhall decides it's time for him to explore the upper world since he's already explored all of Torland with his two cousins. He jumps into a balloon and takes to the sky, (as seen in the aforementioned DQVII manga adaptation) The Prince arrives in the upper world, right in time to witness the devastating fight between God and Orgodemir. Tough luck. The balloon crashes, he survives but he's trap in a devastated upper world. Over time he starts a family there, passing the bloodline of Erdrick to his descendants. At some point, one of them creates the kingdom of Estard on a remote island. Then or maybe before that, piece of the world start vanishing, until there is just one small island, on which the prince Kiefer would start his adventure...

DQM3 takes place there. A 10 years old Kiefer gets transported to Torland by Magargi. It's centuries after the even of DQII, but it might happen simultaneously with his own present (if that make any sense). In any case, Kiefer manages to find the four Orbs of Erdrick, and procedes on kicking Magarugi's butt, actually possessed by the demon Gisvarg. Kiefer is then thanked by Magarugi and her friend Rubiss, and sent back into the upper world, on his island.

However, this experience made Kiefer certain that the world was bigger than his tiny island. Together with his best friend and the lovable Maribel, they start an epic adventure and restore the world to its normal state. Kiefer then decides to stay behind with the Peregrin, and his own descendant, Ashe, joins the party in the present time, making her the latest descendant of Erdrick alive. 

10)

Spoiler
 
Spoiler

"A world changed in the past"

After Luminary has saved the world, he gives the power of the Luminary to Serenica, which in turn travels back in time herself to prevent the death of Erdwin. In doing so she creates a timeline where DQXI never happens, therefore no DQVI or III either.

My personal opinion is that this results in a mixed timeline, featuring elements from both the Zenith and the Erdrick trilogy. For example, the anime Abel Yusha could take place in this timeline, at the same time as DQIII. Ortega went on to defeat a Baramos that has nothing to do with the one from DQIII but the name, and gets "killed". His son, Abel, then goes on a mission to save his childhood friend, Tiara, from the clutches of Baramos. 

Baramos wants to revive a sacred dragon that doesn't like humans (kinda like Zenith Dragon) so that he can drink his blood and become immortal, which would make him more powerful than his current boss, Zoma. Abel watch Ramia hatch and uses her to get to Baramos' town, the Town of the Esterks. Who are all dead thanks to polluted water or something? Anyway, Abel kills Baramos, the world is saved.

Centuries later, Daï's big Adventure could take place imo. There are some events mirroring those of DQI, mainly the bad guy asking the Hero Aban if he wishes to join him, exactly like how Dragonlord asked to DQI's Hero, etc. 

but really i put these two here 'cause I just want to put them somewhere. 

Again that's my personnal canon for the franchise, nothing else :P

Edited by Xiggy
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Horii stated in a Nintendo Power years ago that the Zentitian games aren't meant to be a trilogy, they just have similarities. I guess it's all fan speculation & fan service after that. Some games show panties to appease their fans, some name drop. DQ is more the name-drop.

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Coincidently got the Nintendo Power article sent to me 10 minutes ago! d3136d04cce9f006ee24fbef6e181f74.jpg

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 10/1/2019 at 8:19 PM, Plattym3 said:

Horii stated in a Nintendo Power years ago that the Zentitian games aren't meant to be a trilogy, they just have similarities. I guess it's all fan speculation & fan service after that. Some games show panties to appease their fans, some name drop. DQ is more the name-drop.

Not to cast doubt on Horii or anything, but I'm not sure I buy that as an answer from him (if that's what he stated--perhaps they misunderstood/mistranslated what he stated?) and here is why:

-IV, V and VI are all based around Zenithia just as I, II and III are all based around Erdrick

-IV and V most definitely have the same world with the same island and same Zenith tower in the center

-V makes numerous references to IV and its hero--particularly in the Helmetnumptra section

-Same armor/sword/etc. used in all three

-VI is an obvious prequel to IV and V

If that's not considered a trilogy then why even consider the Erdrick series a trilogy, for that matter?

Sorry, but I have to call BS on this statement much as I did when George Lucas claimed Luke and Leia were "always intended to be siblings" and how Miyamoto said "The problem with the Super Mario Bros. movie is that it was TOO much like the games".

I respect Horii just the same as I respect the other two I mentioned but I can't accept that answer. DQ I thru III all feature Alefgard/Erdrick lineage whereas DQIV thru VI all feature Zenithia/Zenith Tower/Zenith Dragon. Hell IV and V BOTH feature Nadiria, for crying out loud. If he's going to consider the Zenithia trilogy so "loose" then he might as well consider the Erdrick trilogy the same way.

This isn't just directed at Horii--a lot of creators have pulled this BS over the years and I just don't buy it.

Edited by ErdrickRotoLotoOrtega

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