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Does DQ XI sale mean it sold poorly ar BestBuy?


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It's on sale all over the place.

FF15 was on sale 2 days after release, down to 49.99, then a week later, then a week after that, then back up to 59.99 and stayed there for a few months, then sales again, then a permanent price drop.

Sales this early are usually a positive indicator.  It's sold well, or beyond expectations, and it's slowing down so they want to keep sales at a certain level.

In the case of FF15, this was due to the stated 10m required sales, and wanting to maintain high early consistent sales numbers to keep it at #1 for an extended period to make up for Japanese sales, which were paltry.

It's been this way for most games that do well with the sole exception being Nintendo published games.  Nintendo hates putting things on sale for some reason.

Plus when you put a game on sale, it resets its prioritization in store search queues, putting it back up at the top again.

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Now, if it's a price drop, that's a different story altogether.  I'm not sure what that would indicate.

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Granted I guess a sale this early could indicate bad sales, but it isn't like SE spent money on articles spotlighting the game being on sale to boost sales, which is what I would expect if it were selling poorly, to convince fence sitters who aren't paying attention to buy it.  Rather they're letting the normal store search engines and front pages do the work for them. 

Plus it's risen from the 90's to 84 in a week in terms of overall sales on Amazon.  That's slow progress, but still positive.  It's still near the top on PSN and if it's shown on the steam front page, that means it's not being advertised, it means it's actually selling well or is getting a lot of positive reviews, or lot of attention period.

Edited by ignasia
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8 hours ago, ignasia said:

It's on sale all over the place.

FF15 was on sale 2 days after release, down to 49.99, then a week later, then a week after that, then back up to 59.99 and stayed there for a few months, then sales again, then a permanent price drop.

Sales this early are usually a positive indicator.  It's sold well, or beyond expectations, and it's slowing down so they want to keep sales at a certain level.

In the case of FF15, this was due to the stated 10m required sales, and wanting to maintain high early consistent sales numbers to keep it at #1 for an extended period to make up for Japanese sales, which were paltry.

It's been this way for most games that do well with the sole exception being Nintendo published games.  Nintendo hates putting things on sale for some reason.

Plus when you put a game on sale, it resets its prioritization in store search queues, putting it back up at the top again.

---

Now, if it's a price drop, that's a different story altogether.  I'm not sure what that would indicate.

---

Granted I guess a sale this early could indicate bad sales, but it isn't like SE spent money on articles spotlighting the game being on sale to boost sales, which is what I would expect if it were selling poorly, to convince fence sitters who aren't paying attention to buy it.  Rather they're letting the normal store search engines and front pages do the work for them. 

Plus it's risen from the 90's to 84 in a week in terms of overall sales on Amazon.  That's slow progress, but still positive.  It's still near the top on PSN and if it's shown on the steam front page, that means it's not being advertised, it means it's actually selling well or is getting a lot of positive reviews, or lot of attention period.

Oh well people are spreading misinformation that a sale this early means it sold poorly on forums/threads, its still considered a best seller on Bestbuy so I think your right. On another note its strange that on PSN it says its selling well yet Sony's disclosure on top downloads of September don't show DQ, so a typo prob appeared somewhere.

Edited by muddy120
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Top downloads also only show the top 10.

Another problem is again, for a period of 6 days, starting September 4th, DQ11 didn't show up in any list except if you looked for all games.  Not new games, not any hot list, not the general game purchases by category.  Just all games.

It also only became a top download recently, not early on, and not for awhile.

The only spotlight it had was roughly 3~4 days after e3 as well.  So I'm sure pre-order counts were very low.

Given only top 10, it stands to reason those two massive blunders of lack of continual spotlighting, and the critical first week of sales the game literally not being present to any interested party to find and purchase through the normal channels, likely hurt overall September sales by a substantial margin.

So while it has been doing well in the last week of September, that's likely nowhere near enough, and not many major releases at that point except for Tomb Raider and one of the two sports games, I forget which.  Both of those were spot lit for weeks leading into release, and both were on top of DQ11, along with a few other games.  So while in the aggregate it's probably doing well, it has to make up for a lot of #$*!ups on Sony and SE's negligence in not paying attention.

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2 hours ago, ignasia said:

Top downloads also only show the top 10.

Another problem is again, for a period of 6 days, starting September 4th, DQ11 didn't show up in any list except if you looked for all games.  Not new games, not any hot list, not the general game purchases by category.  Just all games.

It also only became a top download recently, not early on, and not for awhile.

The only spotlight it had was roughly 3~4 days after e3 as well.  So I'm sure pre-order counts were very low.

Given only top 10, it stands to reason those two massive blunders of lack of continual spotlighting, and the critical first week of sales the game literally not being present to any interested party to find and purchase through the normal channels, likely hurt overall September sales by a substantial margin.

So while it has been doing well in the last week of September, that's likely nowhere near enough, and not many major releases at that point except for Tomb Raider and one of the two sports games, I forget which.  Both of those were spot lit for weeks leading into release, and both were on top of DQ11, along with a few other games.  So while in the aggregate it's probably doing well, it has to make up for a lot of #$*!ups on Sony and SE's negligence in not paying attention.

But despite all this isnt the golden rule of most of the sales happen the first few days/week so regardless its digital side of downloads had to have come through on PSN. Also what do you think about the misinformation on sales I mentioned

Edited by muddy120
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Yes...that was my point.  The golden rule of sales is the first few days/first week is the heaviest week of sales.  DQ11 on PSN wasn't available to be seen by most players unless someone knew to look for it, or was linked to it through another game (assuming they press down to see what associated games are present, and DQ11 happens to be present).  Meaning during that critical period it wasn't available to purchase and that likely hurt overall PSN sales.  Not sure if it will or is making up for that, and there's no way to know by how much.

As per the "misinformation?"  I don't see it as misinformation.  I see it as most people generally looking for any reason in their minds to say SE failed and DQ11 is selling terribly, and seeing this personally as a negative.  Why shouldn't they?  SE hasn't exactly given us much reason not to, and we can easily track how P3 and P4 US sales combined do not match either DQ8 or DQ9 individually, and yet Atlus clearly spent more money marketing not only those original releases, but their rereleases, PS3FES, and P4 Golden, than did SE with DQ11.  We can easily track how because Atlus saw small growth between P3 and P4, and because SMT 3 and 4 have both benefited greatly SINCE P3, which was the first game they put some effort into marketing, that P5 was given the FF7 treatment, and Atlus and Sega clearly see 2.3m as a massive success.  Yet despite this, we know that SE saw even Tomb Raider's 3.6m initial sales as an utter failure, and while it was given more TV airtime than P5 was, it was given less overall marketing, and it was an Xbox exclusive up front, which was beyond stupid, and likely hurt initial sales, because of the astronomical development costs.  Despite that there is no possible way that Tomb Raider's original reboot should have come near to requiring the 6m figure they stated to "break even," unless SE mismanaged funds to such an extent the game development cost about 10x more than it should have, if not more.

Point being, based on precedent and history, most fans are naturally skeptical and so hurt by the way DQ is treated, that many of us are actively assuming it will fail, and using cognitive bias to prove it.  It's almost like um...what's the word...Stockholm Syndrome.  Especially when SE's Japanese counterparts state emphatically that if the games don't sell enough "no DQ in the future."  Giving the impression we're being held hostage for our favourite series, when they're clearly profiting from that series, and historically haven't accepted either that the sales were phenomenal for an under marketed series (or for games that had literally no marketing at all).

Doesn't help that SE tweeted about DQ7 selling well the week after its street date, and teasing DQ10 if this keeps up, then in a recent interview indicating DQ7 wasn't that popular, which some people take as "it sold poorly," not that it sold better than expected (which is why the tweet), but it wasn't very popular because Nintendo didn't do much to market it.  As just making youtube videos doesn't increase distribution, it's HOW they push and flag those videos that changes things.  Whether they make commercials for it, which they didn't.  Whether SE and Nintendo assured a lot of chatter, previews, and positive articles left and right for the game, which they didn't.  Whether they discussed it in a positive manner and worked out a way to talk about it, which they didn't.  That e3 interview in 2016 looked awkward and wasn't a good sales pitch, as it indicates to any newcomer that the very Development Team of Dragon Quest VII doesn't feel confident their own game is a good game or worth playing, or that we're not Japanese so we don't get it, or something negative.

Nintendo doesn't even know how to sell DQ.  It's why their approach to DQ9 wasn't to sell the game.  It was Seth Green, pretty young girls, and dress up.  Nothing to do with DQ9's story, battles, class progression, etc.  That said what they did was solid, and it worked pretty well.

So what I'm saying is, the mindset of most fans is to see things from the negative, and can anyone blame them?  SE has to step up, and some of their dialogue indicates a sense of breathing room, that they are indeed changing, but words and actions are more profound, and consistent action is far more telling of a real change in direction.

 

SE blundered this one, even though they did a LOT of stuff right.  I mean a lot.  The interviews were positive, but far too many, too many repetitive questions, not many good answers that weren't already answered.  The most interesting one so far is the series where Michi went to Japan.  Horii also has a tendency to speak in simple generalities, and either the translator has a hard time capturing the details inferred, or the questions aren't specific enough to refer to unique character traits, or Horii isn't sure how to approach discussing depth and detail that is clearly present, or perhaps he doesn't want to and prefers players discover what he isn't saying but is clearly there (this last point being quite likely).

Michi and her boss lackey are fantastic representatives, but they should have been given more information, especially concerning the newer features.

Convention showcases was a fantastic idea, but no release demo to follow through and continue the banter and spread the word naturally really cuts down on continued interest and any buzz.  Demos and good games do tend to do well.

The commercials were good, but the original commercial wasn't used outside of e3 and as a youtube plug and the front page of the main site.  The two actual commercials were based off of it, and were solid, sweet, and to the point, as were the banner ads.  However the marketing budget was terrible.  I don't recall people saying they didn't see DQ8 or 9's commercials.  We all did.  Even online.  Plenty of fans saw DQ7's online commercials way back for the PSX, however back then there weren't algorithms to determine audiences.  However the algorithms are picky based on how they determine a potential customer who hasn't already shown interest, or isn't already likely to buy without being prodded.

There was no REAL PSN promotion.  At all.  After e3 isn't sufficient.  Especially when a lot of US gamers do tend to prefer Demo's, and I'll say it again, but both Nier and Octopath skyrocketed from niche discussion to a ton of discussion and attention after their Demo's were announced and released to the public.  They didn't even pay Sony to put it on the front page of its hot lists which yes, they actually DO take money for that, as some games do pop up despite clearly low sales (Divinity 2 for example, which had a large icon for over a month, and yet it wasn't even in the top 30 in PSN's listings for best sellers).  Those larger icons are for the paid for promo spots.  Cheaper PSN promotion, but DQ only had that for those first 3~4 days after e3, then no longer.  The smaller icons are for the games that are actually moving units on their own.

Plus, once this game went Street, and it didn't show up on PSN, after they fixed it, it was WAY down the list from where it was.  At e3, it was in the first 10, when it was spotlit.  After that it was in the first 20~30, usually just above Divinity 2.  When it was popping up at a best seller, it was in the first 15, but only here and there, one day in a week or two days.  The lack of promoting it on PSN directly hurt sales big time, especially for pre-orders.  This is beyond stupid for SE.  Incomprehensibly stupid.

No PS4 system commercials ever mention it.  Nintendo made sure to put up Octopath, not just individually in its own commercial, but in their combined game commercials.  TV spots.  Actual TV spots.  Not just online, not just for streamers, but actual TV commercials.  I saw plenty, and I've said this before, but I don't watch a lot of TV.  Maybe 5 hours a wee while I'm writing stuff or multitasking, so it's background noise.  I still listen for game commercials because anything that isn't about some Medication or a Political ad stands out.  Nothing for the Sony commercials ever mentions or even touches on Dragon Quest.  You think Sony wouldn't want to put in a Slime jumping at players with guns in that all-in-one system commercial?  I bet they would, but it's not a free spot as they aren't required to market it, as they aren't publishing.  So it has to be paid for by SE, and they didn't.  That would have been much cheaper than doing their own commercials.

A massive problem with DQ fans is that we're spread far and wide.  Too much system spread, not enough concentration.  If DQ was only ever on Nintendo consoles, or only ever on Sony consoles, or multiplatformed between them years ago, it would be easier to reach a larger audience due to more consistency for those who are system adherents, and thus pay attention to games on their system first, before genre and games.  There are a lot of people who are like that, and only troll other gamers for other systems for major releases.

So to reach us, and to get us to feel like we're being taken care of, it's a lot.  Honestly I think SE is just very unsure of how to reach gamers.  They feel they should showcase DQ11, because they know it's a good game.  They aren't sure though how far they should spend money as it's too risky, and I think internally they probably feel the ceiling is likely JUST above DQ's 8 and 9, and thus any higher expenditure is too risky for little reward, and if they fail utterly, I'm sure stockholders will demand they stop pushing DQ in the West, while if it slowly builds up, and if somehow it takes off, they'll likely be more open to continued releases.

 

Edited by ignasia
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1 hour ago, ignasia said:

Yes...that was my point.  The golden rule of sales is the first few days/first week is the heaviest week of sales.  DQ11 on PSN wasn't available to be seen by most players unless someone knew to look for it, or was linked to it through another game (assuming they press down to see what associated games are present, and DQ11 happens to be present).  Meaning during that critical period it wasn't available to purchase and that likely hurt overall PSN sales.  Not sure if it will or is making up for that, and there's no way to know by how much.

As per the "misinformation?"  I don't see it as misinformation.  I see it as most people generally looking for any reason in their minds to say SE failed and DQ11 is selling terribly, and seeing this personally as a negative.  Why shouldn't they?  SE hasn't exactly given us much reason not to, and we can easily track how P3 and P4 US sales combined do not match either DQ8 or DQ9 individually, and yet Atlus clearly spent more money marketing not only those original releases, but their rereleases, PS3FES, and P4 Golden, than did SE do with DQ11.  We can easily track how because Atlus saw small growth between P3 and P4, and because SMT 3 and 4 have both benefited greatly SINCE P3, which was the first game they put some effort into marketing, that P5 was given the FF7 treatment, and Atlus and Sega clearly see 2.3m as a massive success.  Yet despite this, we know that SE saw even Tomb Raider's 3.6m initial sales as an utter failure, and while it was given more TV airtime than P5 was, it was given less overall marketing, and it was an Xbox exclusive up front, which was beyond stupid, and likely hurt initial sales, because of the astronomical development costs.  Despite that there is no possible way that Tomb Raider's original reboot should have come near to requiring the 6m figure they stated to "break even," unless SE mismanaged funds to such an extent the game development cost about 10x more than it should have, if not more.

Point being, based on precedent and history, most fans are naturally skeptical and so hurt by the way DQ is treated, that many of us are actively assuming it will fail, and using cognitive bias to prove it.  It's almost like um...what's the word...Stockholm Syndrome.  Especially when SE's Japanese counterparts state emphatically that if the games don't sell enough "no DQ in the future."  Giving the impression we're being held hostage for our favourite series, when they're clearly profiting from that series, and historically haven't accepted either that the sales were phenomenal for an under marketed series (or for games that had literally no marketing at all).

Doesn't help that SE tweeted about DQ7 selling well the week after its street date, and teasing DQ10 if this keeps up, then in a recent interview indicating DQ7 wasn't that popular, which some people take as "it sold poorly," not that it sold better than expected (which is why the tweet), but it wasn't very popular because Nintendo didn't do much to market it.  As just making youtube videos doesn't increase distribution, it's HOW they push and flag those videos that changes things.  Whether they make commercials for it, which they didn't.  Whether SE and Nintendo assured a lot of chatter, previews, and positive articles left and right for the game, which they didn't.  Whether they discussed it in a positive manner and worked out a way to talk about it, which they didn't.  That e3 interview in 2016 looked awkward and wasn't a good sales pitch, as it indicates to any newcomer that the very Development Team of Dragon Quest VII doesn't feel confident their own game is a good game or worth playing, or that we're not Japanese so we don't get it, or something negative.

Nintendo doesn't even know how to sell DQ.  It's why their approach to DQ9 wasn't to sell the game.  It was Seth Green, pretty young girls, and dress up.  Nothing to do with DQ9's story, battles, class progression, etc.  That said what they did was solid, and it worked pretty well.

So what I'm saying is, the mindset of most fans is to see things from the negative, and can anyone blame them?  SE has to step up, and some of their dialogue indicates a sense of breathing room, that they are indeed changing, but words and actions are more profound, and consistent action is far more telling of a real change in direction.

 

SE blundered this one, even though they did a LOT of stuff right.  I mean a lot.  The interviews were positive, but far too many, too many repetitive questions, not many good answers that weren't already answered.  The most interesting one so far is the series where Michi went to Japan.  Horii also has a tendency to speak in simple generalities, and either the translator has a hard time capturing the details inferred, or the questions aren't specific enough to refer to unique character traits, or Horii isn't sure how to approach discussing depth and detail that is clearly present, or perhaps he doesn't want to and prefers players discover what he isn't saying but is clearly there (this last point being quite likely).

Michi and her boss lackey are fantastic representatives, but they should have been given more information, especially concerning the newer features.

Convention showcases was a fantastic idea, but no release demo to follow through and continue the banter and spread the word naturally really cuts down on continued interest and any buzz.  Demos and good games do tend to do well.

The commercials were good, but the original commercial wasn't used outside of e3 and as a youtube plug and the front page of the main site.  The two actual commercials were based off of it, and were solid, sweet, and to the point, as were the banner ads.  However the marketing budget was terrible.  I don't recall people saying they didn't see DQ8 or 9's commercials.  We all did.  Even online.  Plenty of fans saw DQ7's online commercials way back for the PSX, however back then there weren't algorithms to determine audiences.  However the algorithms are picky based on how they determine a potential customer who hasn't already shown interest, or isn't already likely to buy without being prodded.

There was no REAL PSN promotion.  At all.  After e3 isn't sufficient.  Especially when a lot of US gamers do tend to prefer Demo's, and I'll say it again, but both Nier and Octopath skyrocketed from niche discussion to a ton of discussion and attention after their Demo's were announced and released to the public.  They didn't even pay Sony to put it on the front page of its hot lists which yes, they actually DO take money for that, as some games do pop up despite clearly low sales (Divinity 2 for example, which had a large icon for over a month, and yet it wasn't even in the top 30 in PSN's listings for best sellers).  Those larger icons are for the paid for promo spots.  Cheaper PSN promotion, but DQ only had that for those first 3~4 days after e3, then no longer.  The smaller icons are for the games that are actually moving units on their own.

Plus, once this game went Street, and it didn't show up on PSN, after they fixed it, it was WAY down the list from where it was.  At e3, it was in the first 10, when it was spotlit.  After that it was in the first 20~30, usually just above Divinity 2.  When it was popping up at a best seller, it was in the first 15, but only here and there, one day in a week or two days.  The lack of promoting it on PSN directly hurt sales big time, especially for pre-orders.  This is beyond stupid for SE.  Incomprehensibly stupid.

 No PS4 system commercials ever mention it.  Nintendo made sure to put up Octopath, not just individually in its own commercial, but in their combined game commercials.  TV spots.  Actual TV spots.  Not just online, not just for streamers, but actual TV commercials.  I saw plenty, and I've said this before, but I don't watch a lot of TV.  Maybe 5 hours a wee while I'm writing stuff or multitasking, so it's background noise.  I still listen for game commercials because anything that isn't about some Medication or a Political ad stands out.  Nothing for the Sony commercials ever mentions or even touches on Dragon Quest.  You think Sony wouldn't want to put in a Slime jumping at players with guns in that all-in-one system commercial?  I bet they would, but it's not a free spot as they aren't required to market it, as they aren't publishing.  So it has to be paid for by SE, and they didn't.  That would have been much cheaper than doing their own commercials.

 A massive problem with DQ fans is that we're spread far and wide.  Too much system spread, not enough concentration.  If DQ was only ever on Nintendo consoles, or only ever on Sony consoles, or multiplatformed between them years ago, it would be easier to reach a larger audience due to more consistency for those who are system adherents, and thus pay attention to games on their system first, before genre and games.  There are a lot of people who are like that, and only troll other gamers for other systems for major releases.

 So to reach us, and to get us to feel like we're being taken care of, it's a lot.  Honestly I think SE is just very unsure of how to reach gamers.  They feel they should showcase DQ11, because they know it's a good game.  They aren't sure though how far they should spend money as it's too risky, and I think internally they probably feel the ceiling is likely JUST above DQ's 8 and 9, and thus any higher expenditure is too risky for little reward, and if they fail utterly, I'm sure stockholders will demand they stop pushing DQ in the West, while if it slowly builds up, and if somehow it takes off, they'll likely be more open to continued releases.

----

Going to the DQ10 as a single player game.  Well the game is already translated fully to English.  That's what companies do when they distribute to the SEA region, because the most commonly spoken and written language between countries, is the language of international business: English.  It's just easier.  Much like how DQ11's VA work is English only, as most schools in Europe will and do teach English.  It's almost mandatory, and through 2nd and 3rd speakers, is by far the most prevalent language in the world, despite claims of Spanish and Chinese, where they only utilize 1st language speakers as a determinant.

So they know it wouldn't be as difficult as it sounds.  The harder part is the programming and adding in party members, backstories, etc.  Picking the races for the potential characters that join.  Or maybe using a DQ9 approach to alternative characters (which wouldn't go over well, as that's the main gripe for DQ9 from most Western gamers).

Is that true? They didn't have DQ XI available upon release for PSN??? Damn wtf is Sony doing nowadays jeez, thats crazy that def has a chance to hamper sales but still I think DQ XI managed through all that BS so we prob dont need to worry I just amazed that happened.

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It's not that it wasn't available.  It was.  If you access PSN from a computer, it wasn't an issue.  Only from a PS4.

So let's see.  If you turn on your PS4, pick Playstation Store, and went to the following areas, it would not show up for those 6 days:

  • Featured
  • What's Hot
  • Deals
  • Popular
  • Just For You
  • Games -> Featured
  • Games -> New Games
  • Games -> Popular
  • Games -> Genre

You could only find it on:

  • Games -> Explore
  • Games -> All Games
  • Pick any RPG, let's say Dragon Quest Heroes 2, if you select it, then press the down button, you'll go to "Recommendations," and if DQ11 was an associated Recommendation, it would show up
Edited by ignasia
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2 hours ago, ignasia said:

It's not that it wasn't available.  It was.  If you access PSN from a computer, it wasn't an issue.  Only from a PS4.

So let's see.  If you turn on your PS4, pick Playstation Store, and went to the following areas, it would not show up for those 6 days:

  • Featured
  • What's Hot
  • Deals
  • Popular
  • Just For You
  • Games -> Featured
  • Games -> New Games
  • Games -> Popular
  • Games -> Genre

You could only find it on:

  • Games -> Explore
  • Games -> All Games
  • Pick any RPG, let's say Dragon Quest Heroes 2, if you select it, then press the down button, you'll go to "Recommendations," and if DQ11 was an associated Recommendation, it would show up

What does that mean? How do you buy a PS4 game on PSN without having to be able to buy it on PSN? You can buy it on your computer? People actual buy digital PS4 games on a computer?

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Yeah, you can access the PS Store via website.  The interface for the store on PS4 used to be even worse than it is now, and I always found it easier to buy on a browser and then download on the PS4.

 

Or sometimes if I see a sale, I can buy something away from home.

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13 hours ago, mazoboom said:

Yeah, you can access the PS Store via website.  The interface for the store on PS4 used to be even worse than it is now, and I always found it easier to buy on a browser and then download on the PS4.

 

Or sometimes if I see a sale, I can buy something away from home.

I bought some PS4 stuff before I even got the PS4.

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On 10/11/2018 at 2:26 PM, ignasia said:

 

Nintendo doesn't even know how to sell DQ.  It's why their approach to DQ9 wasn't to sell the game.  It was Seth Green, pretty young girls, and dress up.  Nothing to do with DQ9's story, battles, class progression, etc.  That said what they did was solid, and it worked pretty well.

 

Great post but I disagree here.  Nintendo did a great job with those ads.  They were exactly how you market DQ.  Get celebrities involved.  Make it look sexy.   Those commercials did a great job of presenting the functions of the game in a humorous and fun way.

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On 10/11/2018 at 6:51 PM, ignasia said:

It's not that it wasn't available.  It was.  If you access PSN from a computer, it wasn't an issue.  Only from a PS4.

So let's see.  If you turn on your PS4, pick Playstation Store, and went to the following areas, it would not show up for those 6 days:

  • Featured
  • What's Hot
  • Deals
  • Popular
  • Just For You
  • Games -> Featured
  • Games -> New Games
  • Games -> Popular
  • Games -> Genre

You could only find it on:

  • Games -> Explore
  • Games -> All Games
  • Pick any RPG, let's say Dragon Quest Heroes 2, if you select it, then press the down button, you'll go to "Recommendations," and if DQ11 was an associated Recommendation, it would show up

Iggy, I must ask. What is this you say of DQX already translated into English in SEA region?

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9 hours ago, Megalosaro said:

Great post but I disagree here.  Nintendo did a great job with those ads.  They were exactly how you market DQ.  Get celebrities involved.  Make it look sexy.   Those commercials did a great job of presenting the functions of the game in a humorous and fun way.

That's not selling DQ as DQ though.  It's selling it on arbitrary elements and celebrity connections.  I'm not saying that isn't a smart commercial, nor that it doesn't correlate with the more goofy side of DQ, but they didn't tie into that goofy side, they were simply goofy.

 

6 hours ago, redneckpride4ever said:

Iggy, I must ask. What is this you say of DQX already translated into English in SEA region?

Bloody hell, I could have sworn DQ10 was released in the SEA regions or they were planning on it.  I just double checked.  I guess I'm confusing it with Phantasy Star Online 2 and Dragon Quest Monsters Super Lite.  I could have sworn they did, but they obviously didn't.

My apologies.  I'll erase the above.

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What do you think would be involved in selling DQ as DQ though?    They can't really rely on prestige or nostalgia.  And charm doesn't really sell well.  It's one of those things you have to experience and not be told about.

I'll be honest, I'm not really sure how to sell DQ to Americans.  It's a great product and brand, but it's not what I would call flashy.

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8 hours ago, Megalosaro said:

What do you think would be involved in selling DQ as DQ though?    They can't really rely on prestige or nostalgia.  And charm doesn't really sell well.  It's one of those things you have to experience and not be told about.

I'll be honest, I'm not really sure how to sell DQ to Americans.  It's a great product and brand, but it's not what I would call flashy.

DQ is very marketable here, despite its history. Imagine if those PS4 youtube trailers aired on TV, it'd be cold

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9 hours ago, Megalosaro said:

What do you think would be involved in selling DQ as DQ though?    They can't really rely on prestige or nostalgia.  And charm doesn't really sell well.  It's one of those things you have to experience and not be told about.

I'll be honest, I'm not really sure how to sell DQ to Americans.  It's a great product and brand, but it's not what I would call flashy.

I agree with Muddy.

DQ11's commercials played up the darker and more mysterious elements of the story.  Meaning they marketed the game based on itself.  Then went around with a Demo that played well with audiences who tried it (very well).  It just didn't spread far because the demo wasn't released on PSN and Steam, and most people won't go to conventions, while having a demo to download to your PS4 or PC would work very well.  Especially as DQ11 does three things right:

1) It caters to those who consistently complain about FF moving further and further away from its roots, even if they happen to like the newer games.

2) Easy and smooth Turn-based, which actually does play well when most people try it out.  There are always detractors and people who absolutely abhor TB, but they're often in the minority, especially if not overly complex.

Use music that intrigues, give it a sense of wonderment, play up some of the attacks, like certain Pep Powers (THAT is flash, and actual good flash, as it's short, sweet, and does a better job conveying power and destruction than a lot of FF's since 7, which get a tad old for the length of the summons, and in later ones, lack of cool factor like with FF13, and the time spent "forming" the summon before it even unleashes its power, which gets old very fast, and 15 is ridiculous to the point where I prefer FF8).

Plenty of stuff to work with in a slow burn campaign they could have gone for.  Helps if they released certain pep powers that do not include the 8th party member (PLENTY of them) in gameplay vid leaks.  Or not even Zone, but special attacks like Falcon Slash.  Those are pretty cool looking.  Your swords turn into light sabers, then do a quick double tap with a little flash, and it looks really awesome.  Nevermind the new critical hit effects with slow-mo.  They could have done small bits like that alongside pushing the Demo's release on PSN and Steam.  Would have gotten a lot of renewed interest on top of the what they actually did.

As Muddy states above me, airing the commercials they had on TV, or having Sony air a short version within their PS4 system things, and airing short versions on PSN and Steam as highlighted commercials that lead into the game's logo.  Or hell run a cycle of 7 or 8 videos with different special pep powers, lead into the dark and light cover art, then the logo and zoom into the log.  That would work very well and play very well in the US especially.

Plus if you're going to really build a fanbase, you have to really go out of your way to see maximum exposure.  This did wonders for Nier, where the first two games, which were excellent, were niche titles.  They went all out with the third game (which is the best of the three from what I've played).  Nevermind Octopath.  Nintendo played up everything about Octopath's gameplay, and special attacks.  They're not very flash, but they handled it in a way where it LOOKS cool using camera tricks, cutting to particular moments, odd angles highlighting particular parts, then slow or speeding up at particular points as it phases back to normal camera work.  That was frickin' amazing.  I was salivating over that game.  Still am, and it's on my list of must-haves for a Switch when I can afford it, and I was already going to add it to my must-haves.

Nevermind how Persona 5 was sold.

Just follow a similar playbook and anything looks great, while still playing up what it is without aiming for something completely unrelated or a minor and totally insignificant element worked into an utterly unrelated marketing that is designed to shock or create some laughs and memory of the name with a particular face.

Plus it's far more expensive using celebrities, and most marketing data suggests they have limited effect.  Sports stars used to, but as a just-in-case a lot of companies prefer celebrity endorsements, as some do work spectacularly when they do.  Sadly it's for all the wrong reasons, like the Kardashians.  So many companies will pay for them as a backup in case their fans would follow through.  It's just not as common these days as in the 20's and 30's when people respected hollywood, and if they endorsed something it usually meant a decent product.  Now they're just money whores.

https://adage.com/article/cmo-strategy/celebrities-ads-lead-greater-sales/148174/

This is based on one of literally thousands of studies that have shown these endorsements have virtually no impact.  It's the nature of the commercial, or simply the reminder a product exists that triggers recollection.  Like a catchy theme song like Oscar Mayer.  Or funny and memorable moment, such as the Budweiser frog commercial.  A catch phrase like, "Got Milk," or, "Where's the Beef?"

The few times today when they work, and work because they should, are a chef endorsing cookware, most significantly a well known chef endorsing cookware they branded themselves or who own the company that makes said product, and due to their established reputation provide a sense of trust (and if most of their products really do work very well).  Sadly this also works for TV shows, like Richard Karn's "Al Borland" from Home Improvement, where they sell products like it's a short infomercial or a sales pitch guy as the trusted TV character...

Seth Green is not that guy though, and it's very hard to determine whether nerd endorsements work for nerd products.

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4 hours ago, muddy120 said:

Imagine if those PS4 youtube trailers aired on TV, it'd be cold

Do you guys regularly get video game commercials on TV around there??

I haven't watched TV for more than ten years, and I imagine most of the target audience don't have any TV channels nowadays either, but I think the "smallest" video game title I've ever seen advertised on TV is Gears of War. That stuff requires an absolutely gigantic marketing campaign in order to be viable.

3 hours ago, ignasia said:

This did wonders for Nier, where the first two games, which were excellent, were niche titles.  They went all out with the third game (which is the best of the three from what I've played).

There are only two Nier games. If you are thinking of "gestalt" and "replicant", those are just two variants of the same game. We got the better one in the west.

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12 minutes ago, Sumez said:

Do you guys regularly get video game commercials on TV around there??

I haven't watched TV for more than ten years, and I imagine most of the target audience don't have any TV channels nowadays either, but I think the "smallest" video game title I've ever seen advertised on TV is Gears of War. That stuff requires an absolutely gigantic marketing campaign in order to be viable.

There are only two Nier games. If you are thinking of "gestalt" and "replicant", those are just two variants of the same game. We got the better one in the west.

Ah, I see.  I thought they were separate games.

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Absolutely play it though. I loved the first Nier.

I guess I'm a bit alone in that opinion, but Automata was a bit of a let down in comparison. Yeah, it's a better made and much more polished title, but the story in the first game is just immediately much more appealing (where the second game takes at least two complete playthroughs to get barely interesting), and the soundtrack is out of this world.

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6 hours ago, ignasia said:

I agree with Muddy.

DQ11's commercials played up the darker and more mysterious elements of the story.  Meaning they marketed the game based on itself.  Then went around with a Demo that played well with audiences who tried it (very well).  It just didn't spread far because the demo wasn't released on PSN and Steam, and most people won't go to conventions, while having a demo to download to your PS4 or PC would work very well.  Especially as DQ11 does three things right:

1) It caters to those who consistently complain about FF moving further and further away from its roots, even if they happen to like the newer games.

2) Easy and smooth Turn-based, which actually does play well when most people try it out.  There are always detractors and people who absolutely abhor TB, but they're often in the minority, especially if not overly complex.

Use music that intrigues, give it a sense of wonderment, play up some of the attacks, like certain Pep Powers (THAT is flash, and actual good flash, as it's short, sweet, and does a better job conveying power and destruction than a lot of FF's since 7, which get a tad old for the length of the summons, and in later ones, lack of cool factor like with FF13, and the time spent "forming" the summon before it even unleashes its power, which gets old very fast, and 15 is ridiculous to the point where I prefer FF8).

Plenty of stuff to work with in a slow burn campaign they could have gone for.  Helps if they released certain pep powers that do not include the 8th party member (PLENTY of them) in gameplay vid leaks.  Or not even Zone, but special attacks like Falcon Slash.  Those are pretty cool looking.  Your swords turn into light sabers, then do a quick double tap with a little flash, and it looks really awesome.  Nevermind the new critical hit effects with slow-mo.  They could have done small bits like that alongside pushing the Demo's release on PSN and Steam.  Would have gotten a lot of renewed interest on top of the what they actually did.

As Muddy states above me, airing the commercials they had on TV, or having Sony air a short version within their PS4 system things, and airing short versions on PSN and Steam as highlighted commercials that lead into the game's logo.  Or hell run a cycle of 7 or 8 videos with different special pep powers, lead into the dark and light cover art, then the logo and zoom into the log.  That would work very well and play very well in the US especially.

Plus if you're going to really build a fanbase, you have to really go out of your way to see maximum exposure.  This did wonders for Nier, where the first two games, which were excellent, were niche titles.  They went all out with the third game (which is the best of the three from what I've played).  Nevermind Octopath.  Nintendo played up everything about Octopath's gameplay, and special attacks.  They're not very flash, but they handled it in a way where it LOOKS cool using camera tricks, cutting to particular moments, odd angles highlighting particular parts, then slow or speeding up at particular points as it phases back to normal camera work.  That was frickin' amazing.  I was salivating over that game.  Still am, and it's on my list of must-haves for a Switch when I can afford it, and I was already going to add it to my must-haves.

Nevermind how Persona 5 was sold.

Just follow a similar playbook and anything looks great, while still playing up what it is without aiming for something completely unrelated or a minor and totally insignificant element worked into an utterly unrelated marketing that is designed to shock or create some laughs and memory of the name with a particular face.

Plus it's far more expensive using celebrities, and most marketing data suggests they have limited effect.  Sports stars used to, but as a just-in-case a lot of companies prefer celebrity endorsements, as some do work spectacularly when they do.  Sadly it's for all the wrong reasons, like the Kardashians.  So many companies will pay for them as a backup in case their fans would follow through.  It's just not as common these days as in the 20's and 30's when people respected hollywood, and if they endorsed something it usually meant a decent product.  Now they're just money whores.

https://adage.com/article/cmo-strategy/celebrities-ads-lead-greater-sales/148174/

This is based on one of literally thousands of studies that have shown these endorsements have virtually no impact.  It's the nature of the commercial, or simply the reminder a product exists that triggers recollection.  Like a catchy theme song like Oscar Mayer.  Or funny and memorable moment, such as the Budweiser frog commercial.  A catch phrase like, "Got Milk," or, "Where's the Beef?"

The few times today when they work, and work because they should, are a chef endorsing cookware, most significantly a well known chef endorsing cookware they branded themselves or who own the company that makes said product, and due to their established reputation provide a sense of trust (and if most of their products really do work very well).  Sadly this also works for TV shows, like Richard Karn's "Al Borland" from Home Improvement, where they sell products like it's a short infomercial or a sales pitch guy as the trusted TV character...

Seth Green is not that guy though, and it's very hard to determine whether nerd endorsements work for nerd products.

Also the DQ light hearted humor and sillyness WOULD appeal to americans too just mix it in with the seriousness. People forget the US loves humor, ALOT, things like Nintendo games and mario humor, or comedy shows and so on like family guy or sitcoms in such do really well here. People only bash and think stuff like Dragon Quest or One Piece won't sell because of its sillyness as a justification of them failing initially only because they didn't MARKET the series over here well. The exact same thing happened with earthbound, bad marketing like "This game smells", while that humor in the

advertising totally fits with the Mother series style of humor if you don't market something and do stuff like that when you do its just not gonna do well. So the DQ aesthetic and humor point is not an excuse as Americans love DBZ and Americans love light hearted humor alongwith serious badass content as well which DQ has both of those mastered like the other series I mentioned before. The

only reason DQ failed is bad marketing on Enix part and failing to keep the name the same DQ/DW which wasn't entirely there fault but still killed the brand with two names as you see now, that and

failing to market the games properly like I said and capturing the NES magic and nostalgia like in Japan the DQ needed. I actually think RPGs would have been mainstream earlier if DQ succeeded, since

Tons of DQ fans in the older generation still say today I started RPGs and games with Dragon Warrior 1 on the NES and loved it as a kid, since it sold 500k from the Nintendo Power subscription giveaway which shows Dragon Quest's mainstream appeal. If Enix capitalized on that success and released the games EARLIER did much better marketing we wouldn't be in this situation today, and they acknowledged this interviews haha, even Horii himself said it all came down to Enix's poor marketing in the IGN youtube video they did.

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3 hours ago, Sumez said:

Do you guys regularly get video game commercials on TV around there??

I haven't watched TV for more than ten years, and I imagine most of the target audience don't have any TV channels nowadays either, but I think the "smallest" video game title I've ever seen advertised on TV is Gears of War. That stuff requires an absolutely gigantic marketing campaign in order to be viable.

There are only two Nier games. If you are thinking of "gestalt" and "replicant", those are just two variants of the same game. We got the better one in the west.

TV marketing is still the largest marketing platform despite social media, tons of people still have TVs despite the Netflix stereotype and moving to internet social media and so on. Look it up to understand if you don't, SE still made it work without really TV marketing but still the point still stands, I think they got around it with E3 trailer, and stuff like Walmart trailers and gamestop videos I heard other people saw along with all the content media marketing we all discussed in the past along with conventions on why it probably still sold well. Also where do you live. I thought you were in the US assuming lol.

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52 minutes ago, muddy120 said:

TV marketing is still the largest marketing platform despite social media, tons of people still have TVs despite the Netflix stereotype and moving to internet social media and so on. Look it up to understand if you don't, SE still made it work without really TV marketing but still the point still stands, I think they got around it with E3 trailer, and stuff like Walmart trailers and gamestop videos I heard other people saw along with all the content media marketing we all discussed in the past along with conventions on why it probably still sold well. Also where do you live. I thought you were in the US assuming lol.

Purely anecdotal but my parents and grandparents watch TV. They’re too old to have been playing the original Dragon Warrior games back in the day. Meanwhile, my brother would’ve been 7-9 when those games came out. He almost exclusively streams his shows and movies. He would be the target audience at max to market Dragon Quest towards and he barely watches TV.

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1 hour ago, eal said:

Purely anecdotal but my parents and grandparents watch TV. They’re too old to have been playing the original Dragon Warrior games back in the day. Meanwhile, my brother would’ve been 7-9 when those games came out. He almost exclusively streams his shows and movies. He would be the target audience at max to market Dragon Quest towards and he barely watches TV.

And thats great for your scenario, but just think of the masses when we talk about this. TV is still the easiest marketing platform and the biggest, it puts content in front of people who aren't trying to find it like the good ol days. The only thing thats similar is Youtube and some ads on Twitter/FB but TV is still a big market for now

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24 minutes ago, muddy120 said:

And thats great for your scenario, but just think of the masses when we talk about this. TV is still the easiest marketing platform and the biggest, it puts content in front of people who aren't trying to find it like the good ol days. The only thing thats similar is Youtube and some ads on Twitter/FB but TV is still a big market for now

But it’s important to think about who makes up the audience watching that ad. My grandmother watching NCIS on CBS Tuesday night (I think it’s Tuesday) is gonna shut her brain off during that ad. You would never put a Dragon Quest ad on a channel that courts the 49 and older audience, so there goes most major networks.

I would bet that more people grew interested in Dragon Quest from seeing banner ads on Crunchyroll or seeing it promoted on their Facebook and sharing it with their friends which would likely include likeminded gamers, then would ever develop an interest from seeing an ad on TV.

The best possible channel would be Cartoon Network, specifically Adult Swim, and preferably Toonami. Maybe Tom would do a game review of it. But there are likely only marginally more people that watch Toonami then sub to Crunchyroll.

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