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Sackchief

What would your ideal class system look like?

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Just wondering what everyone’s thoughts are. Obviously DQ has experimented with this kind of gameplay in the past with varying success and DQ III, VI, VII and IX all tackle it slightly differently. What would you take from each of them and other games and what would you leave?

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Of the four, I thought IX did it the best.  My only real complaint is being able to use skill points from one class on another, I thought that was dumb but I did like that classes that shared weapons also shared already invested skill points in those weapons.  

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Huh. I could've sworn we discussed classes not too long ago.

I dig VII's multi-level prestige system that I saw on the wiki, though I'd throw in more vocation hearts, possibly as a reward for IX-style quests. I'd also go for something more involved, like a system where your vocation affects how NPCs talk to you.

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Hmmm... if I had to pick a single one, I'd say DQVII.

If I could make up my own, it'd be a mashup of DQVII and grids like DQXI. Like you could earn Job Points and invest them in different jobs, but you'd have a limit to maybe 5 or 6 jobs and the grids would line up and extra skills would appear at the bottom if you had specific jobs next to each other, like mage and cleric next to each other would have sage skills below their grids that could only be accessed by working through both.

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Honestly I want something like what XI has: skill panels, and depending how you unlock them you earn new skills or stat boosts.

Perhaps each specific skill panel tree would have a hidden skill that allows you to pass on the skills of that tree to the next class you choose, or will always pass on to specific classes.

 

I like Platty’s idea too, and I prefer what DQ7 3DS did for the job class system. Basically I’d rather see each class be more unique with some things that transfer, but not everything. When everyone can do the same thing it gets kind of boring.

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I loved the class system in PS1 DQVII. It was vast and there was almost no downside to picking up new classes. It wasn't perfect, though. I hated the way cross-class skills and making up in a class were handled.

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Honestly, Dragon Quest IX is already my ideal class system. Even compared to almost all other RPG series.

Its only issue as I see it is that it's a little too easy to abuse, which makes it super hard to balance the game to not be a complete walkover (like IX was). On the other hand, it makes grinding super fun.

DQ6 and 7 both had a serious issue with an absurd abundance of skills, most of which were either useless or redundant, and often made no sense. DQ8 did a great scale back, by allowing only few select skills for each character, and 9 took that to heart when it reintroduced the dynamic class system.

Edited by Sumez

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Upon further thought, I would love to see a Dragon Quest game with something like D&D's class system where your class levels are tied to your character levels. For instance, if you were a lv 50 character you'd potentially be 50 levels of Priest or 18 Priest, 20 Wizard, 2 Martial Artist, 10 Warrior. Could have the advanced classes act as prestige classes. For instance, in order to become a Sage you would have to know the spells Boom and Healmore. This would naturally lean towards a DQ3/9 type party setup where the characters are interchangeable blanks, but I think it would be easy to give the characters party chat based on a combination of their class levels, gender, and a personality modifier. I liked that DQ3's remakes had personalities. I, however, did not like that it changed stats.

Edited by GrandAlchemist

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I would say something like Dragon Quest VII's, but streamlined to not have all of those useless skills. Perhaps you gain skills/stat bonuses in a similar way skill allocation works in DQVII/DQIX, Where you have your weapon allocation and your class allocation which you get points for through leveling up, and when you bring the skill points to 100 you mastered the class? The one problem I feel, however, is IX was kind of "clunky" with its grinding and leveling system, and VII was much more streamlined. The advantage of the DQVII system is it modified the DQVI system which I feel was far superior to the original III class system, and allowed for theoretically more permutations, and the whole class rank titling and progression also felt more satisfying. So all in all: DQVII's class system with its titles and the like but using DQVIII/DQIX's skill point system. One thing I also suggest is that means skill points are given more liberally (Like 5-6 points per level-up), allowing job progression to be faster.

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How was IX more clunky than VII? I feel like it's exactly the improvements you are looking for in the first place.

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I think DQXI could have used a prestige system now that I think about it. Like every character should be able to upgrade to a tree of classes that are at least somewhat related (ex: Veronica can become an arch mage, but can’t become a Warrior etc.)

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11 hours ago, Sumez said:

How was IX more clunky than VII? I feel like it's exactly the improvements you are looking for in the first place.

Dragon Quest IX has my absolute favorite bonus content of any game, yet the one thing I disliked:

  • Instead of a "classless" class, they force you as a Troubadour/Minstrel. Not too much of a problem, but I just don't like the idea of a minstrel being the "base" class
  • The way to get the classes level up is much slower and arduous, as you get only ~3 points every other level up, and it just takes forever to master the class. Moreso with leveling, when you change classes you go to the level of you when you are in that class, which is tedious. I did not like the revocation process.
  • The actual quests to obtain classes are just a tedious bother to complete, and some of the quests to get their (underwhelming in some cases) scrolls are trollerifically awful. I think some classes should require a quest to obtain, but perhaps only either extremely top tier classes like The Hero, or bonus ones like Liquid Metal Slime?  Also, the fact that this now applies to all party members sans any prerequisites makes it too easy to have everyone just get the class at once.
  • Scrolls themselves feel undercooked and wasted in potential, but I will get to that later
  • No ultimate hero class. As with me being weirded that there is a Minstrel Class for Base, I dislike the lack of a powerful, excel-at-all-categories, ultimate class.

Now, DQIX's system does have some aspects I prefer:

  • While I do like that there are clear superior classes in DQVII like Hero or Champion, I also like how in DQIX all the classes are balanced to have some use of some sort (Whether or not the meta ends up dictating some classes are useless). It's not like you are "Finished soldier, got what I need, never need to go to him again," and there is more involvement and effort put into a class instead of simply grinding.
  • Fource powers... Simply amazing. They add much more strategy and type planning into the battle, and are just great
  • The skill point system makes you have to tactically prioritize whether you want to progress your class or your equipment skills, which again adds more strategy and planning on how to use them
  • Scrolls do have potential, but in a different lite

I will write it up in a bit, but I have an ideal system which would have the best of both worlds from DQIX and DQVII

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9 hours ago, Shun 'Kanamee said:

The way to get the classes level up is much slower and arduous, as you get only ~3 points every other level up, and it just takes forever to master the class. Moreso with leveling, when you change classes you go to the level of you when you are in that class, which is tedious. I did not like the revocation process.

Conversely my experience was the opposite. Since any new class always starts from level 0, if you are further into the game you'll be able to level up that class much much faster, by having stronger characters powerlevel the weaker ones. If you have two level 30+ dudes/dudettes they can take two level 1 dudes/dudettes to level 15-20 in a matter of minutes, earning a massive amounts of skill points.

Meanwhile in DQ7 is felt so tedious having to start over with every new class and level them all the way through only to unlock another class which is the one you actually want. Even mastering the most basic classes takes the same amount of time no matter how far you are into the game, which I think really ruins the dynamic of progress.

9 hours ago, Shun 'Kanamee said:

The actual quests to obtain classes are just a tedious bother to complete

I absolutely love the concept, and I would love to see it return. The quests themselves were way too reliant on luck though.

9 hours ago, Shun 'Kanamee said:
  • Instead of a "classless" class, they force you as a Troubadour/Minstrel. Not too much of a problem, but I just don't like the idea of a minstrel being the "base" class
  • No ultimate hero class. As with me being weirded that there is a Minstrel Class for Base, I dislike the lack of a powerful, excel-at-all-categories, ultimate class.

These have nothing to do with the system itself, and in the case of the former it's just a question of the name of the class.

I agree it would be cool to master the aspects of every other class to unlock quest that will subsequently unlock a hero class only available to the main character. I don't think the class system itself requires any changes to accomodate that.

Edited by Sumez

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