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How Well do you think Dragon Quest XI is doing?

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1 hour ago, ignasia said:

Spiderman...Laura Croft's...

*rage intensifies*

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If DQXI doesn't even hit 1 million sales in the west, that's a bit of a disappointment, especially considering its extremely positive reception.
Nier Automata supposedly sold 3 million copies (I think split almost 50-50 between digital and physical sales, but it's hard to find numbers). If DQXI sold 400K digital at best, that puts it way below Square Enix's other "sleeper" hit

(ignoring Japanese sales which were given to be high simply due to the IP)

Edited by Sumez

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Dragon Quest has such an uphill battle, though. By western standards, it looks like a kid's game. It's in a genre that doesn't typically sell well any more. Unlike other games in the same genre that have sold well recently, like OT, it's on a console with a large back catalogue that people are buying instead, with enormous games released alongside it (e.g. Spider-Man, SotTR), and it wasn't advertised properly by either Sony or Square Enix. Man, advertised at all, really. I've seen no IRL ads for it whatsoever, and that's where you really need to aim for if you want more than the dedicated fans who would've bought it anyway.

The silver lining is that at least there are no other similar releases (e.g. other RPGs, let alone JRPGs) at the same time, but I don't know if that matters when almost everyone with a PS4 has just bought Spider-Man and FIFA 19, and are also waiting to buy RDR2, with Rise of the Tomb Raider also muscling in on the action. There're are more major releases too. But the point is, regardless of genre, people only have so much time and money to ago around. 

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13 hours ago, ignasia said:

There was also a period of nearly 5 days where the game didn't show up on any list except for the total list of games, or if linked to through related games, like Heroes 2 (but not Heroes 1 for some reason, or Builders).

Not sure what happened.  Plus SE failed to pay to promote the game, as it was never on the "What's Hot." section.  It's just ludicrous seeing Spider-Man and then Lara Croft's face.  Maybe Sony requires a heavy price tag? 

But it did get put in the best seller list on PS store and what new for exposure

41 minutes ago, Teclo said:

Dragon Quest has such an uphill battle, though. By western standards, it looks like a kid's game. It's in a genre that doesn't typically sell well any more. Unlike other games in the same genre that have sold well recently, like OT, it's on a console with a large back catalogue that people are buying instead, with enormous games released alongside it (e.g. Spider-Man, SotTR), and it wasn't advertised properly by either Sony or Square Enix. Man, advertised at all, really. I've seen no IRL ads for it whatsoever, and that's where you really need to aim for if you want more than the dedicated fans who would've bought it anyway.

The silver lining is that at least there are no other similar releases (e.g. other RPGs, let alone JRPGs) at the same time, but I don't know if that matters when almost everyone with a PS4 has just bought Spider-Man and FIFA 19, and are also waiting to buy RDR2, with Rise of the Tomb Raider also muscling in on the action. There're are more major releases too. But the point is, regardless of genre, people only have so much time and money to ago around. 

I saw a poster if it in gamestop myself, near check out

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Yes, it is there still, and was prior to Sony screwing up and accidentally taking it off all list flags the moment the street date hit.  Just took them some time to fix or even notice their error.

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I hope it’s a lot because I just read this:

https://sea.ign.com/m/switch/141780/news/dragon-quest-xi-will-have-to-sell-well-in-the-west-for-futur

The DQ producer said DQ 11 has to sell well in the West if we want any hope for future games. 

Edited by Bob_the_Almighty

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3 hours ago, Bob_the_Almighty said:

I hope it’s a lot because I just read this:

https://sea.ign.com/m/switch/141780/news/dragon-quest-xi-will-have-to-sell-well-in-the-west-for-futur

The DQ producer said DQ 11 has to sell well in the West if we want any hope for future games. 

I wouldn't be that worried:

“We need Dragon Quest to sell in the West, even just a certain amount, if we want to keep making [localized versions].” Dragon Quest XI producer Hokuto Okamoto 

That screams: we don't expect millions, just reasonable amounts, so don't worry too much, but we would love to see millions.

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Yeah I’m sure it will be fine but I hate it when they pull the “if ____ doesn’t sell well we might not release future games” crap.   If they were that concerned about sales you should have properly advertised it lol. 

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Why must they always hold Dragon Quest at ransom for western releases? Seriously, just let another company publish them outside Japan if it’s that much of a “hassle” for Square Enix themselves.

I love Dragon Quest to death, but I HATE how Square Enix doesn’t advertise it much outside Japan and then goes “Well why didn’t it sell that well? Guess they don’t like it!”

Edited by YangustheLegendaryBandit

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So Square Enix is gonna pull the Capcom gambit now?

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9 minutes ago, eal said:

So Square Enix is gonna pull the Capcom gambit now?

Thought of that as well. 

It’s stupid.  SE wants Dragon Quest to be a blockbuster like Final Fantasy but they don’t want to spend money on Dragon Quest like they do Final Fantasy...

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What are you guys talking about? DQXI had a huge budget. The western localization was a huge effort, and it's been advertised to hell and back.

Sure it's no FFXV, but they made a damn good effort. I'm not sure what they should have done different for it to be "properly advertised".

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12 minutes ago, Sumez said:

What are you guys talking about? DQXI had a huge budget. The western localization was a huge effort, and it's been advertised to hell and back.

Sure it's no FFXV, but they made a damn good effort. I'm not sure what they should have done different for it to be "properly advertised".

I’d argue it got a stronger push then Tomb Raider. Some people didn’t even know that game came out.

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28 minutes ago, Sumez said:

What are you guys talking about? DQXI had a huge budget. The western localization was a huge effort, and it's been advertised to hell and back.

Sure it's no FFXV, but they made a damn good effort. I'm not sure what they should have done different for it to be "properly advertised".

Other than a couple of emails from SE (which I’d get anyway from being on their mailing list) and some banner adds on gaming related sites I saw nothing promotion wise.   No TV ads, no PSN ads (Spider-Man was plastered all over the PSN store), nothing before movies, not a lot of Facebook or YouTube ads, and so on.  

Compare that to Final Fantasy 15, which was everywhere.  You couldn’t turn your head two degrees without seeing some form of promotion for the game.  And it clearly worked as it blew every other FF out of the water in terms of Western sales (sold over 7 million outside of Japan, compared to the 4-5 million they typically sell outside Japan). 

Chances are if you weren’t already a DQ fan you wouldn’t even know the game was out.   I still think 1.5 million or so in the West should be easily doable but it’s not going to explode in the West the way FF 15 or Monster Hunter World did.  It will sell to DQ fans for sure but I’m doubtful if it will substantially grow over DQ 8 and 9 (which honestly it doesn’t have to, which is probably why it got a modest marketing budget). 

Edited by Bob_the_Almighty

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1 hour ago, Bob_the_Almighty said:

Chances are if you weren’t already a DQ fan you wouldn’t even know the game was out.

I've talked to tons of people who are playing the game, and never touched a DQ game before. It definitely made waves.

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1 hour ago, Bob_the_Almighty said:

Other than a couple of emails from SE (which I’d get anyway from being on their mailing list) and some banner adds on gaming related sites I saw nothing promotion wise.   No TV ads, no PSN ads (Spider-Man was plastered all over the PSN store), nothing before movies, not a lot of Facebook or YouTube ads, and so on.  

Compare that to Final Fantasy 15, which was everywhere.  You couldn’t turn your head two degrees without seeing some form of promotion for the game.  And it clearly worked as it blew every other FF out of the water in terms of Western sales (sold over 7 million outside of Japan, compared to the 4-5 million they typically sell outside Japan). 

Chances are if you weren’t already a DQ fan you wouldn’t even know the game was out.   I still think 1.5 million or so in the West should be easily doable but it’s not going to explode in the West the way FF 15 or Monster Hunter World did.  It will sell to DQ fans for sure but I’m doubtful if it will substantially grow over DQ 8 and 9 (which honestly it doesn’t have to, which is probably why it got a modest marketing budget). 

While the marketing budget was small, it was definitely larger than 8 and 9.  They just used it in different ways.

DQ11 had substantially more press, far more convention showcasing (8 and 9 had nothing beyond e3).  It did lack a proper demo release, which I still think is asinine and just plain stupid, especially when, if you WANT convention goers new to DQ11 who are talking about it in social media to spread it properly, their followers need something to play themselves as not everyone can go to conventions.  That would have had the best chance by far to spread the word by mouth rather rapidly.  Octopath had a demo, and once that was released, there was a lot of buzz over it, as it was released a month prior, and Nintendo both released it and made buzz at e3 by talking about it openly, which is when the majority share of the OP buzz was generated as people played the demo and SE was overwhelmed because late preorder numbers were jacked up much much much higher than early.  It's why their stock wasn't prepared more so than "they were caught with their pants down." 

DQ11 was not promoted well on PSN for sure.  This is a foolish move, but despite this, and despite that the day of release and 4 days after the game not showing up (which is a CRITICAL sales period...just absolutely critical) on any list because someone mucked up the flagging for the game on release day at Sony, and SE took too long to pay attention to get them to correct it (or Sony took too long...), it's still up in the ranks.  Several times from e3 to release day, it was near the top of pre-orders, then two weeks prior it sank loooow.  Now it's up again, and apparently has been since at least a week ago.  So that means sales are consistently good.

The biggest issue is that while Amazon lists put it near the top again (and higher than it ever was when it was a pre-order, where it's cap was #5, and it was consistently at #7 for three weeks, then dropped only as low as #12 in PS4 sales, #15 in overall videogame), and Steam sales seem to be picking up (I'd wager anything it's due to the music mod, and I'd wager because of the music mod and because of the sales spike likely attributed to it, SE isn't going to TOUCH that mod, and probably won't mention anything to Sugiyama, because we all know he would demand it's removal and SE would have to contractually comply, despite knowing it would hurt sales and trigger potential refunds), we just don't know numbers.  So they could be good, or they could be great.  What is true is that it's selling well this late after release, and that bodes well for the overall picture.

Plus the nature of the marketing was different this time.  Modest budget for sure, and it's stupid as based on number of commercials and total sales, I could make a good argument that Dragon Quest has the same or a better Marketing $ to Profit $ in the US than Final Fantasy does, only that SE is too worried about high-level risk to rewards ratios beyond a certain sales point (which makes sense).  As despite the ratios likely preferring DQ, it's very possible that if DQ's had FF's marketing budget the returns wouldn't be as high.  They could be as high or higher, but the risk of lower returns is much greater because it's an unknown and because FF's (and Pokemon) level of success has yet to be copied, even by Persona 5.  Though P5 is close to KH, not quite there, but close.  While there is a definitely revolution for JRPG's and TB games in general (probably because if everything is action RPG, TB actually is "new" despite constant droning on about "archaic" when Action predates Turn-Based in the PC world, and actually the Console world as well (Hydlide predates Dragon Quest by 1 year 5 months and 14 days, and that's not even the first ARPG...I forget what is, I just don't feel like researching it).

However the type of marketing means that it's special targeted.  You and me would likely see 0, 1, maybe 2 ads, and once the cookie trackers pick up on your history, you'll be exempted so they don't spend extra cash where it isn't needed.  The biggest problem is this can overlook certain people by picking up on your history too early by being part of a blocked add where the cookie tracker still gets past the blocker, picks you up, and when sites where you don't have the blocker on or they use bypasses for some banners/video commercials, you just don't see them at all.

So it's REALLY hard to determine effectively what the marketing is, or how widespread and how effective it is.

Edited by ignasia

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2 hours ago, Sumez said:

I've talked to tons of people who are playing the game, and never touched a DQ game before. It definitely made waves.

Hope you’re right.  I’m the only person I know in real life that even knew it was out lol.  I showed it off to several people so I hope they decide to jump in.

I think making a Steam version was incredibly smart though.  That version will likely sell much longer than the PS4 version. 

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5 hours ago, eal said:

I’d argue it got a stronger push then Tomb Raider. Some people didn’t even know that game came out.

Explain this point, because I've seen ALOT of Tomb Raider ads and commercials on Youtube, online and everywhere. I saw some DQ XI ones too of course but yeah explain further how you would argue DQ XI had a bigger push here to someone, cause that's an interesting claim

5 hours ago, Bob_the_Almighty said:

Other than a couple of emails from SE (which I’d get anyway from being on their mailing list) and some banner adds on gaming related sites I saw nothing promotion wise.   No TV ads, no PSN ads (Spider-Man was plastered all over the PSN store), nothing before movies, not a lot of Facebook or YouTube ads, and so on.  

Compare that to Final Fantasy 15, which was everywhere.  You couldn’t turn your head two degrees without seeing some form of promotion for the game.  And it clearly worked as it blew every other FF out of the water in terms of Western sales (sold over 7 million outside of Japan, compared to the 4-5 million they typically sell outside Japan). 

Chances are if you weren’t already a DQ fan you wouldn’t even know the game was out.   I still think 1.5 million or so in the West should be easily doable but it’s not going to explode in the West the way FF 15 or Monster Hunter World did.  It will sell to DQ fans for sure but I’m doubtful if it will substantially grow over DQ 8 and 9 (which honestly it doesn’t have to, which is probably why it got a modest marketing budget). 

It sold 7 million total worldwide not outside of japan, 7 million is actually common, that's what FF XIII sold as well, FF X and VIII sold 8 million, VII 10 million when it came out

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy

Edited by muddy120

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4 hours ago, ignasia said:

While the marketing budget was small, it was definitely larger than 8 and 9.  They just used it in different ways.

DQ11 had substantially more press, far more convention showcasing (8 and 9 had nothing beyond e3).  It did lack a proper demo release, which I still think is asinine and just plain stupid, especially when, if you WANT convention goers new to DQ11 who are talking about it in social media to spread it properly, their followers need something to play themselves as not everyone can go to conventions.  That would have had the best chance by far to spread the word by mouth rather rapidly.  Octopath had a demo, and once that was released, there was a lot of buzz over it, as it was released a month prior, and Nintendo both released it and made buzz at e3 by talking about it openly, which is when the majority share of the OP buzz was generated as people played the demo and SE was overwhelmed because late preorder numbers were jacked up much much much higher than early.  It's why their stock wasn't prepared more so than "they were caught with their pants down." 

DQ11 was not promoted well on PSN for sure.  This is a foolish move, but despite this, and despite that the day of release and 4 days after the game not showing up (which is a CRITICAL sales period...just absolutely critical) on any list because someone mucked up the flagging for the game on release day at Sony, and SE took too long to pay attention to get them to correct it (or Sony took too long...), it's still up in the ranks.  Several times from e3 to release day, it was near the top of pre-orders, then two weeks prior it sank loooow.  Now it's up again, and apparently has been since at least a week ago.  So that means sales are consistently good.

The biggest issue is that while Amazon lists put it near the top again (and higher than it ever was when it was a pre-order, where it's cap was #5, and it was consistently at #7 for three weeks, then dropped only as low as #12 in PS4 sales, #15 in overall videogame), and Steam sales seem to be picking up (I'd wager anything it's due to the music mod, and I'd wager because of the music mod and because of the sales spike likely attributed to it, SE isn't going to TOUCH that mod, and probably won't mention anything to Sugiyama, because we all know he would demand it's removal and SE would have to contractually comply, despite knowing it would hurt sales and trigger potential refunds), we just don't know numbers.  So they could be good, or they could be great.  What is true is that it's selling well this late after release, and that bodes well for the overall picture.

Plus the nature of the marketing was different this time.  Modest budget for sure, and it's stupid as based on number of commercials and total sales, I could make a good argument that Dragon Quest has the same or a better Marketing $ to Profit $ in the US than Final Fantasy does, only that SE is too worried about high-level risk to rewards ratios beyond a certain sales point (which makes sense).  As despite the ratios likely preferring DQ, it's very possible that if DQ's had FF's marketing budget the returns wouldn't be as high.  They could be as high or higher, but the risk of lower returns is much greater because it's an unknown and because FF's (and Pokemon) level of success has yet to be copied, even by Persona 5.  Though P5 is close to KH, not quite there, but close.  While there is a definitely revolution for JRPG's and TB games in general (probably because if everything is action RPG, TB actually is "new" despite constant droning on about "archaic" when Action predates Turn-Based in the PC world, and actually the Console world as well (Hydlide predates Dragon Quest by 1 year 5 months and 14 days, and that's not even the first ARPG...I forget what is, I just don't feel like researching it).

However the type of marketing means that it's special targeted.  You and me would likely see 0, 1, maybe 2 ads, and once the cookie trackers pick up on your history, you'll be exempted so they don't spend extra cash where it isn't needed.  The biggest problem is this can overlook certain people by picking up on your history too early by being part of a blocked add where the cookie tracker still gets past the blocker, picks you up, and when sites where you don't have the blocker on or they use bypasses for some banners/video commercials, you just don't see them at all.

So it's REALLY hard to determine effectively what the marketing is, or how widespread and how effective it is.

It's ranked #101 for all games and #14 on Amazon, would you call that good still? And do you personally think it gained most of its sales digitally on PSN or physically on Amazon and Gamestop?(and other retailers) cause its been doing really well in the rankings on PSN by number 2 next to spiderman for a while now but I don't know if as of right now this month do digital games or still physical games do better now in the states.

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27 minutes ago, muddy120 said:

Explain this point, because I've seen ALOT of Tomb Raider ads and commercials on Youtube, online and everywhere. I saw some DQ XI ones too of course but yeah explain further how you would argue DQ XI had a bigger push here to someone, cause that's an interesting claim

First of all, I didn’t even know it was out now, and I was listening to a gaming podcast and one of the hosts says they were playing it and one of the other hosts didn’t even know it came out. Compare that to Spider-Man, where I was telling my folks a story about the GameStop midnight release I saw a few weeks back and they texted back that they were seeing a commercial for it at the exact same moment.

Couple that with the fact that sales are down 70% from the original reboot game’s, it’s fair to say it didn’t get much of a push.

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12 minutes ago, eal said:

First of all, I didn’t even know it was out now, and I was listening to a gaming podcast and one of the hosts says they were playing it and one of the other hosts didn’t even know it came out. Compare that to Spider-Man, where I was telling my folks a story about the GameStop midnight release I saw a few weeks back and they texted back that they were seeing a commercial for it at the exact same moment.

Couple that with the fact that sales are down 70% from the original reboot game’s, it’s fair to say it didn’t get much of a push.

I totally forgot they even had a new Tomb Raider game coming out. I’ve seen more advertisement for DQ11 than for Tomb Raider. How weird is that?

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1 hour ago, muddy120 said:

Explain this point, because I've seen ALOT of Tomb Raider ads and commercials on Youtube, online and everywhere. I saw some DQ XI ones too of course but yeah explain further how you would argue DQ XI had a bigger push here to someone, cause that's an interesting claim

It sold 7 million total worldwide not outside of japan, 7 million is actually common, that's what FF XIII sold as well, FF X and VIII sold 8 million, VII 10 million when it came out

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy

FF 15 has sold 8.1 million worldwide, with only 1.1 million or so coming from Japan.  It's actually the worst-selling numbered FF in Japan since FF 2, which sold about 740,000 on the Famicom back in 1988/1989.  On the flip side it's the best-selling FF game in the West by a large margin (it's a million ahead of FF 7 right now).

https://www.dsogaming.com/news/final-fantasy-xv-has-sold-8-1-million-copies-worldwide/

When you look at FF 7, 4 million of its 10 million sales came from Japan, meaning it sold 6 million outside Japan.  Only FF 7 and FF 8 sold better than FF 15 and those games were multi-million sellers in Japan.  FF 8 sold 3.7 million in Japan and again FF 7 sold 4 million.

Edited by Bob_the_Almighty

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