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11 minutes ago, Plattym3 said:
7 hours ago, Madesagora said:
I believe Horii mentioned fans would like XII to be more like IV so you may get your wish. As for retroactively adding gender options to the older games? I don't see that happening. It'll take a bit more than just swapping he to she and changing the sprite.

As long as XII doesn't play itself, I'm fine with a female (which lately I've been playing many games as because for 30 years I never did so fun to switch it up), a monkey, or a bag of bricks as the main hero.

There’s our hero for Builders 3: a bag of bricks named Brickdrick.

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Finally, a ship I can get behind.

Ig and Jay, thanks for telling me not to feel too bad about all the discussion. I'm a very nonconfrontational person, and it was just bothering me that there was the *possibility* of feelings being hu

Well that would be fantastic! (Re: XII) And, yeah, I guess I kinda figured a rom hack would be tough to do. It was nice thinking about it though.

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2 minutes ago, Plattym3 said:

As long as XII doesn't play itself, 

You mean linear gameplay? Yeah, after BotW I've really come to enjoy an open world. But I witnessed the story suffer a little for it. Every new town and dungeon had to be written and designed as if the player might head there first. There's a lot of introductory repeat among NPCs. I finally got to my last area, and I was still "being taught" how to cook meals.

1 hour ago, Sackchief said:

You’re not wrong lol. Technically the only DQ game where a gender swap at the beginning would simply not work is DQV because the narrative calls for a male protag. I don’t think it’s done intentionally though.

I agree. And I don't really want to change that one. I think Horii might primarily be a storyteller, and his medium is video games. I appreciate a lot (even all) these stories. It's why I love DQ. But then sometimes I want to put myself in the story. ;)

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No, like FFXII where I can put my controller down and come back a half hour later and enough monsters have been beat to go up a level.

This is a running joke with me that FFXII plays itself. I doubt DQ will fail like that.

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9 hours ago, Plattym3 said:

No, like FFXII where I can put my controller down and come back a half hour later and enough monsters have been beat to go up a level.

This is a running joke with me that FFXII plays itself. I doubt DQ will fail like that.

Plattym wants to put his controller down and come back an hour later to find a holy man screaming at him for an idiot.

That's his idea of genius gameplay.

Edited by JaybirdC
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11 hours ago, Plattym3 said:

No, like FFXII where I can put my controller down and come back a half hour later and enough monsters have been beat to go up a level.

This is a running joke with me that FFXII plays itself. I doubt DQ will fail like that.

Dragon Quest IV NES/PS1/DS: turn on AI, put the Hero/ine in the wagon, tape down any d-pad button, let it run overnight.  For the DS, tape down the L or R trigger as well.

Dragon Quest V SFC/PS2/DS: turn on AI, put the Hero in the wagon, tape down any d-pad button and either the L or R trigger.

Dragon Quest VI SFC/DS: turn on the AI, put the Hero in the wagon, tape down any d-pad button and either the L or R trigger.

Dragon Quest VII PS1/3DS and Dragon Quest VIII PS2: turn on the AI to No Magic (assure either healing items are present, but no resurrection stuff), kill the Hero, tape down the analog stick to any corner direction.

OR, for the PS1 and PS2, get a turbo-controller.

Turn on the AI to any setting you want to or don't turn it on so everyone just presses "fight", tape the D-pad in the right position, tape down an action button (for the 3DS, it has to be the L trigger).

Dragon Quest VIII 3DS: turn on AI for all party members, tape down the analog in any direction.

Dragon Quest IX: turn on the AI for all part members, tape down the analog in any direction.

Dragon Quest XI: turn on the AI for all party members, tape down the analog in any direction.

 

=p``

Edited by ignasia
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14 hours ago, Plattym3 said:
22 hours ago, Madesagora said:
I believe Horii mentioned fans would like XII to be more like IV so you may get your wish. As for retroactively adding gender options to the older games? I don't see that happening. It'll take a bit more than just swapping he to she and changing the sprite.

As long as XII doesn't play itself, I'm fine with a female (which lately I've been playing many games as because for 30 years I never did so fun to switch it up), a monkey, or a bag of bricks as the main hero.

DQXII, where a Golem with a heart of gold is the hero.

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10 minutes ago, Plattym3 said:
18 minutes ago, Fates said:
DQXII, where a Golem with a heart of gold is the hero.

Basically, a Gold Golem.

Who has a sidekick who’s a bag of bricks named Brickdrick.

Edited by YangustheLegendaryBandit
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5 hours ago, JaybirdC said:
15 hours ago, Plattym3 said:

No, like FFXII where I can put my controller down and come back a half hour later and enough monsters have been beat to go up a level.

This is a running joke with me that FFXII plays itself. I doubt DQ will fail like that.

Plattym wants to put his controller down and come back an hour later to find a holy man screaming at him for an idiot.

That's his idea of genius gameplay.

It occurs to me that this comment reads as more mean-spirited than I intended. My bad for a poor impression, Plat.

On 8/10/2018 at 8:55 PM, Madesagora said:

I believe Horii mentioned fans would like XII to be more like IV so you may get your wish. As for retroactively adding gender options to the older games? I don't see that happening. It'll take a bit more than just swapping he to she and changing the sprite.

A lot of the stories are written to assume a male character, which informs a lot of the implicit dynamic with the rest of the world. In VI, for example, main character Rek has little enough character that you could feasibly give him a female alt, but you'd still have to rejigger her relationships with Tania and Buddy at the least.

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16 hours ago, JaybirdC said:

Plattym wants to put his controller down and come back an hour later to find a holy man screaming at him for an idiot.

 That's his idea of genius gameplay.

I didn't see this as mean-spirited.  I actually... I have no idea what you were trying to say here, my interpretation was "must be a typo" and I moved on.  Haha, either way, no offense!

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2 hours ago, Plattym3 said:

I didn't see this as mean-spirited.  I actually... I have no idea what you were trying to say here, my interpretation was "must be a typo" and I moved on.  Haha, either way, no offense!

Well, it was supposed to be a joke about how running off in DQ and setting things to automatic would be a good way to get yourself killed, but my brain works in odd ways when I'm exhausted (it works in odd ways when I'm awake, too, now that I'm at it).

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Well, it was supposed to be a joke about how running off in DQ and setting things to automatic would be a good way to get yourself killed, but my brain works in odd ways when I'm exhausted (it works in odd ways when I'm awake, too, now that I'm at it).
Duh how'd I miss that. Throw in "and with only 1/2 his gold" and I'd have understood! Haha, good one!
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17 hours ago, JaybirdC said:

 

On 8/10/2018 at 10:55 PM, Madesagora said:

I believe Horii mentioned fans would like XII to be more like IV so you may get your wish. As for retroactively adding gender options to the older games? I don't see that happening. It'll take a bit more than just swapping he to she and changing the sprite.

A lot of the stories are written to assume a male character, which informs a lot of the implicit dynamic with the rest of the world. In VI, for example, main character Rek has little enough character that you could feasibly give him a female alt, but you'd still have to rejigger her relationships with Tania and Buddy at the least.

Good point. I really do not remember much about DQ6 at all. :cry2:

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38 minutes ago, aerynb said:

Good point. I really do not remember much about DQ6 at all. :cry2:

Well, the dialogue with Tania isn't difficult to tweak, as it's VERY flat and gender neutral.  You could be her strong and weak adopted sister, either way works for both lower and upper world versions.  It's Buddy that's the difficult one to work out, as he's jealous of Tania's relationship with you, and this is specific to the fact the hero is a male.

Edited by ignasia
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7 would miss out on a ton of the banter from Maribel, but I wouldn't mind losing that for the option of more customization. The hero is as generic as they get anyway, so there's nothing lost by making him/her completely customizable.

There is no reason Medea couldn't stay a girl (in fact , it would add to the triangle drama featuring charmles and the hero, and the controversy of her abandoning her wedding) , however, if the objective is to make the characters relatable to a larger demographic, it would obviously miss the target quite a bit.

On 8/11/2018 at 3:32 AM, ignasia said:

Sure, the Hero could be a woman, but some changes.  Maybe less Strength, definitely more Agility, definitely less HP, definitely more MP

what the f...

Edited by Sumez
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Sumez...

When it comes to Medea, that wouldn't work.  She would have to be made a boy, as the whole point of the secret ending, and the entire post-game is as a leadup to a wedding between the Hero and Medea, who grew up together with sexual tension and a personal desire from both to be with each other.  The kingdom also requires children as well, so you can't make it a lesbian lover connection as that couldn't be allowed, as it would create a future connundrum of a different bloodline producing an heir.  It would also kill the whole point of setting up the Elrio Saga and the decaying Dragovian tribe to expand into the human realm and continue their bloodline by marrying humans.

Nevermind it makes far less sense in lieu of Medea and Charmless, as she would play a sister-type role, and you'd require some potential mate to appear that would be worthy of Medea's hand.

===

What do you mean wtf?  Alena is a one-off, a rare situation.  In real life there aren't many women with the natural testosterone development to create muscle mass enough to compete with men directly, and even with enhanced very very few women are capable of competing in Strength contests and Endurance with males.  Instead you find more dexterity, sometimes more agility.  Typically women in those roles are forced to use their wits and intelligence on a scale more than men, especially if you're accounting for battle.

Here is an example of a girl who competes in fitness competitions and works out constantly, takes testosterone supplements to help boost her stamina and strength arm wrestling a man who is a scrawny nerd who doesn't work out:

This is not the only example of this.  Alena is fun, and I haven't any problem at all with it.

I mean it isn't like you have to make those changes, but for most players around the world, it would break immersion given 6's and 7's Heroes being respectively so physically intimidating, even compared to earlier games, where they were more round-about in stat growth (only 3's has limited MP).  So if you directed such a thing, then fine, don't make those changes, keep their stats identical.  Especially as there aren't any distinctions in the stat growth for male or female leads in 3, 4, and 9.  That's fine, it certainly wouldn't turn me off playing with the same stats, just an altered storyline to compensate for the sex distinctions and how that would have to play out in chat especially.  I just want to do so as it makes more sense to me, and through that I feel you can change the dynamics to improve in other areas.

Most games with female and male alternative leads have VERY different stat growth.  Male = more physical and offensive, Female = more magically inclined and faster.  That's not due to some misguided concept of dislike for the opposite sex in not just allowing for a gender swap, especially when we're already discussing why you can't just swap genders.

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Iggy, don’t forget Jade/Martina. She’s like Alena since she’s physically strong and a martial artist.

I do wish more females in RPGs were the strong physical damage type instead of mainly being magic oriented. That’s why I usually have my physical fighter in Etrian games be a female portrait. Heck, in Etrian 5 my Fencer ended up being the fastest and strongest once I got my link set ups working.

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You don't need to prove to me that women are statistically genetically weaker than men, that is a pretty well known fact. But going from that to "for the hero to be female you'd have to decrease her strength stat" is just a completely needless point that serves no purpose other than to enforce somebody's idea that girls shouldn't be the strong one.
Besides, I bet the average woman is probably stronger than I am, as a man. You wouldn't want to get into a fight with a girl who's been training with her sword her entire life. This is a video game, the stats are used to balance your combat, not enforce medieval gender roles.

36 minutes ago, ignasia said:

When it comes to Medea, that wouldn't work.  She would have to be made a boy, as the whole point of the secret ending, and the entire post-game is as a leadup to a wedding between the Hero and Medea, who grew up together with sexual tension and a personal desire from both to be with each other.  The kingdom also requires children as well, so you can't make it a lesbian lover connection as that couldn't be allowed, as it would create a future connundrum of a different bloodline producing an heir.

Hence my point about cancelling her wedding to run away with the hero being even more controversial and interesting. Completely unlikely for a DQ game to pursue that, but this is a fantasy scenario anyway, so I don't see why you can't entertain the idea.
Like I said, I think the biggest argument against it is that the purpose of a female hero would be female players having an easier time relating to the main character, so it makes more sense to shoot for the broad demography, which is heterosexual women. I've never seen a game that asks your sexuality, that's definitely taking it far. But then we have the Bioware games where everyone is pretty much bisexual. They were probably trying hard not to leave anyone out...

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1 hour ago, ignasia said:

What do you mean wtf?  Alena is a one-off, a rare situation. 

Not that rare anymore. XI has Jade, and before that Heroes 2 gave us big-axed Desdomana, and three makes a trend, even before getting into the iconic female warrior class. DQ's fantasy trappings and conventions certainly allow for stronger-than-realistic women.

A place where the gender dymorphism of strength being a problem is in stuff like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which sets itself in the "Real World" and then, with no real justification, has ballerinas kick linebackers across the room as some kind of ham-handed feminist statement. DQ isn't striving to be realistic like that.

28 minutes ago, Sumez said:

Hence my point about cancelling her wedding to run away with the hero being even more controversial and interesting. Completely unlikely for a DQ game to pursue that, but this is a fantasy scenario anyway, so I don't see why you can't entertain the idea.

Because it's completely contrary to the theme, your interest in the scandal notwithstanding. DQVIII is about fulfilling obligations to family, and the golden ending, in which Eight has an acknowledged Argonian title in his own right, allows him and Medea to fulfill the thwarted marriage promise between Medea's late grandmother and the late former king of Argonia and join their kingdoms properly.

Edited by JaybirdC
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This goes back to my point of, why would anyone let “historical accuracy” affect their fantasy story? Yes, more often then not man are stronger then women but that doesn’t need to be the case in a story with dragons and #$*!.

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6 minutes ago, eal said:

This goes back to my point of, why would anyone let “historical accuracy” affect their fantasy story? Yes, more often then not man are stronger then women but that doesn’t need to be the case in a story with dragons and #$*!.

Because most fantasy characters are still humans, so we process them as humans. Even in wuxia or superhero stories we still need justifications like lineage, training, or body-mods.

DQ specifically allows for super-strong women because the female warrior has been a convention dating back to III, and, further personal stats are determined by the divine imposition of the vocation itself -- in vocational games, the woman is, in effect, made strong by her choice of vocation. It's slightly less justified with the specific NPCs like Alena, but she quite pointedly fills in for the Martial Artist vocation, which assumes audience familiarity with III.

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35 minutes ago, eal said:

This goes back to my point of, why would anyone let “historical accuracy” affect their fantasy story? Yes, more often then not man are stronger then women but that doesn’t need to be the case in a story with dragons and #$*!.

Maybe we need monster ladies so they can be strong and kick ass.

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5 minutes ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:

Maybe we need monster ladies so they can be strong and kick ass.

Trust me, watch enough anime, you’ll realize “monster ladies” is a genre.

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I'm a guy, but in games where I can pick my avatar, I typically just go for the cooler-looking one, or the one that feels more "definitive" to me (I play female Inkling in Splatoon and female Wii Fit Trainer but male Villager in Smash, male in Animal Crossing etc).

A defined female protagonist in DQ would be pretty cool. In fact, I kind of would prefer having the story built around a female character rather than having the option to pick. In a lot of adventure games, the sex of the main character subtly affects how characters interact with them (marriage in DQV, Young Link and Ruto's relationship in OoT, the romance angle in Illusion of Gaia, etc). Assuming DQ is back to being more narrative-driven as opposed to DQX and IX to a lesser extent, maybe we'll see a leading lady in XII.

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