Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
eal

Square Enix Responds to Sugiyama’s anti-LGBTQ Comments

Recommended Posts

I guess Anime News Network took it upon themselves to reach out to Square Enix in regards to some negative comments about LGBTQ people that Sugiyama made on TV alongside the show’s host.

The article itself is here: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2018-08-07/square-enix-responds-to-dragon-quest-composer-2015-anti-lgbtq-statements/.134974

Basically, SE said: “The views of an individual do not reflect the views nor efforts of the company. SQUARE ENIX employs a global multicultural staff of various beliefs, sexual orientations and gender identities. As a matter of policy we do not condone discrimination or harassment of any kind and we respect the diversity of sexuality and gender identity of everyone around the world.”

What else did you expect them to say?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.

 

Edited by YangustheLegendaryBandit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a non-american, I am more worried about his other #$*!ry, such as denial of war crimes, or the copyright bullshit he's pulling with music. 

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In all seriousness I’m not surprised this was the response.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty standard thing for any [decent] business to say. They actually teach you to word things like that in business classes. But I digress. It's a nice sentiment but in this day and age, words mean little to the crowds. They want to see action taken. To a civilian, keeping a worker on board with highly discriminatory and/or blatantly wrong views is the same as supporting said views. Ball is now in SE's court as to how far they want to take their actions.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:

In all seriousness I’m not surprised this was the response.

It's obviously a complete standard form. It's hilarious to base a "news article" around it without any real comment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1) Only in the West does anyone really care, and even then it's a very small, but often vocal minority that frankly I can't stand anymore, as they make a mockery of "liberalism," having neither the balls to look themselves in the mirror for their hypocrisy, nor any shred of integrity of their beliefs...thus they constantly devolve into ever smaller and smaller groups looking for more and more problems to solve or conspiracies in the walls out to get them...OMG...THE PAINT IS WHITE...IT'S WHITE PRIVILEGE...OH GOD HELP US...WAIT WE DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD...OH SCIENCE DAMN YOU WH...OH WE DON'T BELIEVE IN SCIENCE ANYMORE...OH SOCIAL JUSTICE TENANTS SAVE US FROM THE PAINT ON THE WALLS...PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE...OMG IT'S OPPRESSING ME...IT'S OPPRESSING ME *SOBBING...MORE SOBBING* I NEED MY SAFE SPACE NOW...*CURLS INTO A BALL* (liberalism requires absolute respect for free speech first and foremost, all other things follow after, so no true liberal in any sense of the word would care about Sugiyama's beliefs in terms of his work or anything he's related to, only his actions based on those beliefs as actions have real meaning and impact).

I have no respect for the opinions or life of anyone who gives a hoot about Sugiyama's words.  I care if he takes direct action, like advocates for Trans people to be put in concentration camps or denied basic rights.  Other than that, as abhorrent as they are, they are words, and words mean only what you want them to.

 

2) Most civilians don't actually care, it's only those who indulge in identity politics, but that's due to forced indoctrination in schools since the 1970's, though in colleges since the 1950's.  Though the original identity politics was at least about true equality.  So I respect what I was taught, because it was just that white or black or gay or straight or whatever...who cares, let people be as they are.  Self defense only if someone tries to force their political crap on you.  Then just argue it out, unless they're idiots, in which case, walk away.  If they physically need you to believe their world view...fight back.  That was it.  Plain and simple.  Liberalism at its purest.  Then it changed to Political Correctness and just devolved into the crap we see today.  Mindless droning on with repetitious statements.  Mass mobs where literally not one person is willing to talk or listen.  People playing so hard into identity politics, now suddenly we're back to a point where we have to separate people again?  For what purpose?  For rights people already have that they claim they don't...oh, you mean special privileges from people where 80+% had nothing to do with your familial plight in the past, and most of whom have the same slavery bs in their history, but we just focus on one group?  Whatever dude, get over yourself.

Most don't want to defend someone like Sugiyama, but are forced to when dumbshits give a rats behind when someone has a stupid opinion but can't do anything specific about it because the whole of his/her country (or near enough) couldn't care less.

 

3) Japan doesn't care, as they take generally 1950's viewpoint on personal opinions versus work, which is the same way most liberal and conservatives in the US tend to think (except for those who actually care about identity politics).

 

4) Assuming SE should care, because it's supposed to be some modern age where we now have "right think" and "wrong think," not positions one can make their mind on, they still can't do anything and their hands are tied because Sugiyama owns the musical rights through his company Sugiyama Kobo.  This means if they part ways, and if SE wants to release any Dragon Quest from that point forward, they would require a new composer, and would require remaking every composition from scratch, and not one of them can sound like the original music.  The only things we would have access to are the already released copies of games and any CD the company Sugiyama Kobo decides to release.  All digital versions would be scrapped and changed before rerelease to the new revisions.

So essentially if SE did cut ties, they would be totally #$*!ed.  They have to wait for him to retire and that's that.  Any action to the contrary would kill the series in Japan.  I don't think for one second the Japanese people would appreciate having someone condemned who is well respected (for their work), and I don't think for one second they would be happy replaying older DQ releases with new music, or new DQ releases with music that doesn't sound remotely like Dragon Quest so as to avoid a potential theft lawsuit from Sugiyama Kobo, which would likely happen even after his death, due to bad blood after having ties cut.

Sugiyama isn't even an SE employee anyway, so even if they wanted to directly impact his life to quell things, they couldn't.

 

5) Square Enix owes the LGBTQ community nothing.  Literally nothing.  Sugiyama is Sugiyama, SE is SE.  In capitulating and somehow doing something to "make amends" they become complacent and inherit guilt by default.  They essentially claim ownership of his own words and opinions.  Nevermind any concept would be giving into a certain entitlement culture.  What's next, a son says he didn't like his mom's baking so she gets compensation?   Are we only supposed to say things now that make people feel better about themselves?  How far does that go?  We've already seen where PC culture has headed in the West, and NONE, not ONE SINGLE DROP is remotely good.  Not even a shred.  It is evil, because it forces everyone into a sense of worry that anything they might say is somehow going to be taken the wrong way.  So we start this same bs in Japan?  No thank you.  I want the culture dead gone and buried, because it doesn't belong.  You don't get to demand compensation when someone says words you don't like.  If this were a common practice, no one would be able to own anything, you'd be paying out the ass each month, and any payment gotten would be given out the next second.  Nevermind it opens up the door for anyone to find anything hurtful or "hate" speech or a "hate crime" or "offensive."

Here's a protip on life for those who don't get it.  Offense is taken, not given.  Everyone in this world will eventually meet someone who will be offended by the very fact you exist.  That you wake up in the morning and take a breath of fresh air.  That you make coffee.  Offense for waving.

Back in the 90's we learned to grow a backbone.  Ok, so someone doesn't like me...whoopdie doo. They said something I find offensive...ok, maybe I'll throw some words back out, maybe I'll argue the point to convince them otherwise, or maybe I'll just not give a #$*! and walk away.  Or hell, maybe I'll throw them the bird and walk away.  Lots of other options.

Edited by ignasia
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ignasia said:

Here's a protip on life for those who don't get it.  Offense is taken, not given.  Everyone in this world will eventually meet someone who will be offended by the very fact you exist.  That you wake up in the morning and take a breath of fresh air.  That you make coffee.  Offense for waving.

This isn't a question of people getting offended, it's a question of someone being a douchebag that you don't want to support. I agree that there is absolutely no reason for Square Enix to take responsibility, but please don't confuse taking the consequences of saying horrible things with "political correctness".

You can't say Square Enix don't owe the LGBTQ "community" anything when a sizeable share of their target demographic is homosexual, etc. It isn't a question of being a part of a community, but a part of who you are born, so you could apply the same logic to people of color. "Square Enix don't owe the black community anything" doesn't sound right does it? If this wasn't a personal issue of Sugiyama I would say there was every possible reason to get into SE's face about it.

If they theoretically made a game that actively made gay, black, transsexual, etc. people look like lesser people not deserving of respect due to their nature, I would hate Square Enix for it. Not because I'm "offended" but because they would be sharing a toxic, bigoted world view that needs to be disposed of.
I'm not talking about being PC here, I'm talking about not being a terrible person. If they made a game with a horribly racist person in it, who kept saying racist stuff, that would be a different situation. It might not be considered PC, but IMO it's an interesting aspect to explore in a story. But it's a touchy subject for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's it.  I'm now not listening to the DQ music anymore when I play!

Edited by Plattym3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, ignasia said:

(liberalism requires absolute respect for free speech first and foremost, all other things follow after, so no true liberal in any sense of the word would care about Sugiyama's beliefs in terms of his work or anything he's related to, only his actions based on those beliefs as actions have real meaning and impact).

Other than that, as abhorrent as they are, they are words, and words mean only what you want them to.

You’re thinking of libertarianism in the first paragraph I’ve quoted.

As for the second paragraph, words don’t mean “only what you want them to.” That implies that a statement said by someone is defined how the receiver of those words interpret them. That’s just flat out wrong. There are times when words can be misinterpreted, yes. However, 95% of the time the speaker’s intention is clear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Plattym3 said:

That's it.  I'm now not listening to the DQ music anymore when I play!

You already do that ;) that would be for me like giving up broccoli for lent

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Woodus said:

You already do that ;) that would be for me like giving up broccoli for lent

Just put some cheese on it. Or make homemade beef and broccoli Chinese. Get a nice steak of some kind and you got something delicious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I'm glad Square Enix said at least something! I'm very used to silence from them after all.

My stance? I wish there was an option to own a version of CE w/o the orchestra CDs. I think most people would be okay with this as well considering the CDs are the main reason why the CE is so darn expensive! Two birds with one stone, you feel me?

Being upset over Sugiyama's views is valid and 100% understandable. If you don't touch the series or "boycott" because of Sugiyama? Now, you're being ridiculous.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, ignasia said:

Here's a protip on life for those who don't get it.  Offense is taken, not given.  Everyone in this world will eventually meet someone who will be offended by the very fact you exist.  That you wake up in the morning and take a breath of fresh air.  That you make coffee.  Offense for waving.

I gotta chime in here to disagree lightly. Offense is given, even accidentally, but not nearly as often as offense is taken.

11 hours ago, Sumez said:

You can't say Square Enix don't owe the LGBTQ "community" anything when a sizeable share of their target demographic is homosexual, etc. It isn't a question of being a part of a community, but a part of who you are born, so you could apply the same logic to people of color. "Square Enix don't owe the black community anything" doesn't sound right does it? If this wasn't a personal issue of Sugiyama I would say there was every possible reason to get into SE's face about it.

If they theoretically made a game that actively made gay, black, transsexual, etc. people look like lesser people not deserving of respect due to their nature, I would hate Square Enix for it. Not because I'm "offended" but because they would be sharing a toxic, bigoted world view that needs to be disposed of.
I'm not talking about being PC here, I'm talking about not being a terrible person. If they made a game with a horribly racist person in it, who kept saying racist stuff, that would be a different situation. It might not be considered PC, but IMO it's an interesting aspect to explore in a story. But it's a touchy subject for sure.

What exactly does SQEX owe any given segment of its fanbase? Last I checked, our relationship is pretty strictly economic -- they make a product that we may or may not like and we buy it as it suits us.

There's this creeping assumption that likes to insinuate itself just about everywhere that because a fanbase expresses its love of a creator's work publicly that the creator therefore owes the fanbase and should create in exchange for that fanbase's public support, as if appreciation is a kind of exchangeable good. Even more ridiculous is the idea that a creator owes not just his fanbase, but his "target demographic", the people he wants to buy his stuff but who have not yet. I've seen it in artistic communities, too, people complaining that one of their favorite artists is producing content for the people who actually pay them and not for the people who've been saying nice things in the comments section for a long time.

7 hours ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:

Just put some cheese on it. Or make homemade beef and broccoli Chinese. Get a nice steak of some kind and you got something delicious.

Are you suggesting Woodus eat more food for Lent? Is he over-starving himself ascetically the rest of the year?

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, JaybirdC said:

Are you suggesting Woodus eat more food for Lent? Is he over-starving himself ascetically the rest of the year?

No. I was just telling him of a recipe that involves broccoli.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has been a difficult subject for me because for me, the music is part of the games. Ok, XI has a weak soundtrack. But I can't imagine something like VIII without that beautiful tower music. And then he goes and says/does things like this...

Sugiyama's a jerk, and I just have to separate the art from the artist.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Fates said:

This has been a difficult subject for me because for me, the music is part of the games. Ok, XI has a weak soundtrack. But I can't imagine something like VIII without that beautiful tower music. And then he goes and says/does things like this...

Sugiyama's a jerk, and I just have to separate the art from the artist.

I’ve said this elsewhere. Dude is ancient and nothing we do will ever keep him from performing music for the games. Every American on Earth could stop playing Dragon Quest because of him and Japan would merrily continue making games featuring his iconic score without a care in the world.

This isn’t like Rurouni Kenshin where our dollars were funding that pig’s disgusting porn. Sugiyama gets paid and he cashes his fat paycheck and life goes on. I doubt he is getting royalties for every copy the of Dragon Quest that sells in the US. I imagine only buying his music outright would be supporting him. And regardless, he is not actively using his money to commit direct harm on LGBT people in Japan the way Watsuki was using his to fund the exploitation of children. My conscious is as clear playing any Dragon Quest game with sound as it is never buying a Rurouni Kenshin volume for as long as I live.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh I agree, the Kenshin situation is a lot more difficult.

The argument I've seen is that Sugiyama throws money at running campaigns of war crime denial and history revision which could be funded by DQ money... BUT, he does more than DQ so his income is more than just that.

I made the mistake and read the Resetera thread... the "I wish he would hurry up and die" sentiment is a bit much, I think, and it's sad that it's seemingly applauded.

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Fates said:

the "I wish he would hurry up and die" sentiment is a bit much, I think, and it's sad that it's seemingly applauded.

Yeah, no kidding. That was messed up. I get not liking a person, but saying stuff like that or telling someone you hope they get cancer is just awful.

Edited by YangustheLegendaryBandit
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, eal said:

You’re thinking of libertarianism in the first paragraph I’ve quoted.

As for the second paragraph, words don’t mean “only what you want them to.” That implies that a statement said by someone is defined how the receiver of those words interpret them. That’s just flat out wrong. There are times when words can be misinterpreted, yes. However, 95% of the time the speaker’s intention is clear.

Well, you misinterpreted my meaning, but that's not your fault.  I wrote that last bit poorly.  I don't mean Sugiyama doesn't mean what he says, or that there isn't clear intent behind words.  I was referring to how one allows words to affect them.  Whether you care about the words or not, or whether you allow them to affect to such a degree they negatively impact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/10/2018 at 11:31 PM, JaybirdC said:

What exactly does SQEX owe any given segment of its fanbase? Last I checked, our relationship is pretty strictly economic -- they make a product that we may or may not like and we buy it as it suits us.

There's this creeping assumption that likes to insinuate itself just about everywhere that because a fanbase expresses its love of a creator's work publicly that the creator therefore owes the fanbase and should create in exchange for that fanbase's public support, as if appreciation is a kind of exchangeable good. Even more ridiculous is the idea that a creator owes not just his fanbase, but his "target demographic", the people he wants to buy his stuff but who have not yet. I've seen it in artistic communities, too, people complaining that one of their favorite artists is producing content for the people who actually pay them and not for the people who've been saying nice things in the comments section for a long time.

Fair enough, I think this is mostly a question of semantics, and what you read into "owing somebody". Of course Square Enix do not technically owe anyone anything, and they can do what they want. I'm a proponent of free speech and opponent of censorship.

But when a specific segment covers maybe 5% of their target demographic and potential income, there is obviously good reasons to at least respect those people. Of course the number gets even higher when we are including people sympathizing with those people (and if you can't sympathize with queer folks who get treated unfairly, don't expect me to ever respect you :) ).

Companies know this, as long as they aren't misguided bigots (see recent Papa John's controversy, etc.), so obviously they will not intentionally do anything to step on those people's toes. Moreso however, I'd expect the best in people and assume that they also don't do it because they are decent people. Unfortunately not all are, though.

Basically that's what I read into "owing" a part of your fanbase, in this context.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel the reaction to this whole thing is overblown--Sugiyama's an 87 year-old Japanese man expected to conform to 2018 American culture views on homosexuality. He comes from a completely different era of a completely different culture.

Do the people boycotting DQ because of this apply that line of thinking to any artist? Because there's no way that, between all the media one consumes, every work is penned by people who share one's specific views on homosexuality, the environment, gun control, abortion, religion, the death penalty, immigration, health care...

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was. Don't get me wrong, how he reacted was quite awful, but it wasn't exactly a secret. It never would have garnered any attention had ResetEra not had its hissy fit and witch hunt. Supporting the game is up to the consumer, but I think a lot of people yelling about it weren't DQ fans to begin with. Like I mentioned before, long time DQ fan Ice Cypher had the best response to the controversy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Dwaine said:

Supporting the game is up to the consumer, but I think a lot of people yelling about it weren't DQ fans to begin with.

1

Pretty much.

"I was going to buy DQ but..."

"I was thinking about buying it but..."

In the end, most folks were on the fence. As the consumer, I'm fine with weeding out any potential fans who cannot understand that DQ is the work of many people, not just some old man with nasty views. All I'm worried about is Square Enix looking at the sales and saying "WELL I GUESS DRAGON QUEST IS A FAILURE IN THE WEST, FANS DIDNT BUY ENOUGH COPIES!!!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...