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AlefgardHero

¡SPOILERS! STAR WARS: TLJ ¡SPOILERS!

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What did you all think!

Let me hear you overall feelings or your specific gripes/praises!

 

I can see why it could split the fanbase. Overall I thought it was great but I did have a couple of things that were head scratchers. I was glued to the screen and couldn't believe how much it felt like an EU story on the big screen! More so than even Rouge One. I want to wait 'til I see it at least one more time before making any final judgements.

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Like Force Awakens, I got the art book immediately after seeing the movie and got really upset. The concept art was so great and the final result on the screen looks cheap and lazy by comparison. Everything is a glob of browns and yellows. There aren't any creatures from the previous movies and all the new ones look too similar to one another. As much as people complain about the prequels, the locations and creatures were creative and colorful.

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I was gonna make this topic when I first watched it, but then Den's new layout makes it so you see the first few bits of posts, which could potentially spoil stuff for people that care about that who aren't even visiting the topic. Instead, I shared my thoughts in my birthday topic.

You should never compare the finished project to concept art, because more often then not, the concept art will always look nicer then the finished product. Things tend to change from concept to completed project.

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3 minutes ago, eal said:

I was gonna make this topic when I first watched it, but then Den's new layout makes it so you see the first few bits of posts, which could potentially spoil stuff for people that care about that who aren't even visiting the topic. Instead, I shared my thoughts in my birthday topic.

Yeah, I didn't think of that because I've been using mobile and didn't notice that 'til I logged onto the full site to change my pic.

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7 hours ago, eal said:

You should never compare the finished project to concept art, because more often then not, the concept art will always look nicer then the finished product. Things tend to change from concept to completed project.

That's part of the fun, though!

Check out the art of books for the prequels. If a piece got approved, it was pretty much created. For the new movies a piece gets approved and they make 10% of it. Jakku suffered the most from this. Niima Outpost had its own distinct look. The shipyard was surrounded by fences further pushing the "you can't leave" message. The concepts ranged from structures and cities made from the wreckage to polluted waters and rusted walkers. Then JJ Abrams went, "Nah, son. Just gimme another Tatooine."

One big thing that sticks with me about the movie is Rey didn't really go though any sort of real conflict. Luke spent days trudging through the swamp to getting the tar beaten out of him and losing a hand. Rey got a little scratch on her arm. So much of her goings on in the movie doesn't feel like a progression or her accomplishments earned. There were Jedi far better trained and in tune with the force and were still bested. In Rey's second ever lightsaber fight she defeats Snoke's elite guards.

One thing it touched on that was nice to see is the living force. That was a Qui-Gon concept that was cut. He believed that the Jedi had become too insular and the force was a part of everything.

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As someone that disliked Episode 7, I'll say this was OK.  Good, even.  My only issue is I really don't care much for these characters (I really want to forget the Star Wars Extended Universe ever happened, but I spent hundreds of hours reading it, 4.5 hours of movie can't change that) and I'm pretty much sick and tired of the whole a few people taking down and entire galaxy-wide dictatorship.  It's why I rarely am super-excited for Superhero movies too.  The trope that a couple people can just beat up like 20 billion is over for me.

Except in video games, I mean, that's the whole point.

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Just finished watching it, and I don't quite know how I feel. I enjoyed watching it, true, but I don't know if I'm satisfied with what we got.

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4 hours ago, Dwaine said:

That's part of the fun, though!

Check out the art of books for the prequels. If a piece got approved, it was pretty much created. For the new movies a piece gets approved and they make 10% of it. Jakku suffered the most from this. Niima Outpost had its own distinct look. The shipyard was surrounded by fences further pushing the "you can't leave" message. The concepts ranged from structures and cities made from the wreckage to polluted waters and rusted walkers. Then JJ Abrams went, "Nah, son. Just gimme another Tatooine."

One big thing that sticks with me about the movie is Rey didn't really go though any sort of real conflict. Luke spent days trudging through the swamp to getting the tar beaten out of him and losing a hand. Rey got a little scratch on her arm. So much of her goings on in the movie doesn't feel like a progression or her accomplishments earned. There were Jedi far better trained and in tune with the force and were still bested. In Rey's second ever lightsaber fight she defeats Snoke's elite guards.

One thing it touched on that was nice to see is the living force. That was a Qui-Gon concept that was cut. He believed that the Jedi had become too insular and the force was a part of everything.

I'd argue that approving everything can be a problem in and of itself. It clutters the movie with unimportant crap. And a lot of those CGI aliens looked like crap.

I agree with your thing about Rey though. She felt like she didn't have much to do, even though her part of the movie was so important.

I don't get why people are so bothered by how she keeps winning her lightsaber battles. This was a complaint people made about the first movie that I noticed too. Sure, it was her second time fighting someone with a lightsaber, but keep in mind she carries around that big dumb stick, so surely she's had to use it plenty of times on Jakku.

I disliked Poe a lot in this movie. I might actually hate him now. I don't tend to use this word like at all, but he gave off the impression that he was "mansplaining" when that new lady took over. Like, he couldn't handle that he wasn't able to storm on the bridge and tell his boss what he thinks they should do anymore so he went over her head and even tried to mutiny, all because he wasn't getting his way and he didn't like the solution he was told. And then his plan actually cost them most of the escape pods after that guy sells them out. His inability to just do what he's told instead of taking matters into his own hands even cost them hundreds of lives and dozens of ships at the start of the movie.

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Eal, I'm 100% behind you on Poe. He's a horrible leader. Did he get stuff done? No, others did. Were his actions responsible for thousands of deaths? Yep. I know there's only a couple dozen Rebels left, but someone needs to fire him or leave him behind on Salt Hoth.

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Ok, can we also address the horrible graphics on some ships? The shield generator screen for the big ship that basically was a triangle with lines on it. And the dude tapped the screen when the shield flickered? C'mon! 

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2 hours ago, Plattym3 said:

Eal, I'm 100% behind you on Poe. He's a horrible leader. Did he get stuff done? No, others did. Were his actions responsible for thousands of deaths? Yep. I know there's only a couple dozen Rebels left, but someone needs to fire him or leave him behind on Salt Hoth.

But hey, at least they took down a Dreadnaught, right? Right?

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3 hours ago, Plattym3 said:

Eal, I'm 100% behind you on Poe. He's a horrible leader. Did he get stuff done? No, others did. Were his actions responsible for thousands of deaths? Yep. I know there's only a couple dozen Rebels left, but someone needs to fire him or leave him behind on Salt Hoth.

He's a flawed character, and that's what makes him good. He is an amazing pilot, but he wasn't leader material at first. He was just a hotshot who focused to much on the endgame, rather than the path to reach it. Perhaps you two missed it, but he had a character arc in the film too. You can see the extent of his growth at the end, when he realizes that they can't stop that cannon and orders Finn to back off, much like Leia told him to do at the start of the movie.

Remember Yoda's words: Failure is the greatest teacher of all. Poe failed hard this time around, and he learned from that failure like he should've.

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It was nice to see Poe having more to do in this movie. As much as some of the far left press is going "rhee rhee mansplaining," Holdo could have saved time, ships, and lives by just taking a couple of seconds to calm Poe down. (Which is also unfortunate, because the issues these writers have are tarnishing a pretty good character.)

The more I think about Rey the more it's really irking me. So in movie time it's been, what? A couple of days? A week at most since Force Awakens. Empire Strikes Back was a couple of years after A New Hope. Luke had time to train and go through stuff. I really hope Rey goes through some tough stuff in the next movie.

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8 hours ago, Plattym3 said:

Eal, I'm 100% behind you on Poe. He's a horrible leader.

This is not an opinion, but the intentional theme of the movie :D 

I'd admit that they may have taken it a little far, though... But still, I kind of enjoyed how dramatic the consequences were. These new Star Wars episodes are much better at labelling the empi... I mean First Order as a serious threat, and the war they are fighting a serious one. It's kind of leaving the swashbuckling Flash Gordon adventures behind, but I like the change of scenery.

Edited by Sumez

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5 hours ago, Sword_of_Dusk said:

He's a flawed character, and that's what makes him good. He is an amazing pilot, but he wasn't leader material at first. He was just a hotshot who focused to much on the endgame, rather than the path to reach it. Perhaps you two missed it, but he had a character arc in the film too. You can see the extent of his growth at the end, when he realizes that they can't stop that cannon and orders Finn to back off, much like Leia told him to do at the start of the movie.

Remember Yoda's words: Failure is the greatest teacher of all. Poe failed hard this time around, and he learned from that failure like he should've.

Being flawed doesn't make a great character. I love flawed characters, he goes beyond "flawed." His problems are problems of writing, not actual character deficits. If this was a failure meant to make him reflect and become a better person, he would've showed some regret or acknowledged his failure. Instead, other characters had to punish him, tell him to back off and stop being hot-headed and acting like he knows best, only for him to continue to do so. And then Leia and that other woman are like "what a hot-head. I like him."

He basically single-handedly demolished the Rebellion.

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24 minutes ago, eal said:

Being flawed doesn't make a great character. I love flawed characters, he goes beyond "flawed." His problems are problems of writing, not actual character deficits. If this was a failure meant to make him reflect and become a better person, he would've showed some regret or acknowledged his failure. Instead, other characters had to punish him, tell him to back off and stop being hot-headed and acting like he knows best, only for him to continue to do so. And then Leia and that other woman are like "what a hot-head. I like him."

He basically single-handedly demolished the Rebellion.

Like I said, his realization comes when he realizes they stand no chance, and orders Finn to back off, only to have Finn do what he himself did earlier. The man made a catastrophic mistake, and he has to live with that, but he learned a lesson, and it will hopefully make him a better leader in Episode IX.

And the Resistance isn't done. They may have taken heavy losses, but Luke ensured that they will rebuild themselves and come back stronger than ever.

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31 minutes ago, Sword_of_Dusk said:

Like I said, his realization comes when he realizes they stand no chance, and orders Finn to back off, only to have Finn do what he himself did earlier. The man made a catastrophic mistake, and he has to live with that, but he learned a lesson, and it will hopefully make him a better leader in Episode IX.

And the Resistance isn't done. They may have taken heavy losses, but Luke ensured that they will rebuild themselves and come back stronger than ever.

So it took until their huge army was literally reduced to the size of however many people can fit in the Millenium Falcon for him to realize he #$*!ed up?

And he told Finn to back off because it was literally suicide and he would have been blown to pieces for nothing. He was also his friend, so he cared for his safety far more then he did the lives of the faceless soldiers that died during the mission he dragged them into. He showed almost no remorse when Leia gave him #$*! for it too.

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6 hours ago, eal said:

So it took until their huge army was literally reduced to the size of however many people can fit in the Millenium Falcon for him to realize he #$*!ed up?

And he told Finn to back off because it was literally suicide and he would have been blown to pieces for nothing. He was also his friend, so he cared for his safety far more then he did the lives of the faceless soldiers that died during the mission he dragged them into. He showed almost no remorse when Leia gave him #$*! for it too.

You're comparing Poe at the start with Poe at the end. Of course he showed little remorse at that point, because he only focused on the fact that they had succeeded. It wasn't until he actually awoke on one of the transport ships that he realized Holdo had a plan, and that he can't always be in the drivers seat, as it were. 

I doubt he knew that most of the Resistance was lost because of his actions until later. No way he could've known that DJ ratted them out to the First Order. Poe's character arc was pretty clear in the movie, though. He made a huge mistake because he couldn't take being in the backseat and out of the loop, but ultimately learns an important lesson about leadership, though at a great cost.

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Yeah I'm not sure the movie ever lets him know how the empire were able to find their transport ships. As far as I know he's completely oblivious to exactly how much he #$*!ed up. Finn and Rose know of course, but I'd imagine it's not the first thing they'd bring up.

From an in-universe standpoint everything makes perfect sense, but I agree it's thematically somewhat dodgy writing considering Poe's supposed to be a well intended main character of sorts.

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So here is a question, could the "light speed jump" attack work on a Death Star, Star Killer Base, etc?  Kids and I were debating that after we saw it on Sunday night.

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1 hour ago, Woodus said:

So here is a question, could the "light speed jump" attack work on a Death Star, Star Killer Base, etc?  Kids and I were debating that after we saw it on Sunday night.

Seems like it would, right?

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2 hours ago, Woodus said:

So here is a question, could the "light speed jump" attack work on a Death Star, Star Killer Base, etc?  Kids and I were debating that after we saw it on Sunday night.

Theoretically, it should. The Death Star,and Starkiller Base are just very, very, very giant battlestations after all.

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9 hours ago, Sword_of_Dusk said:

You're comparing Poe at the start with Poe at the end. Of course he showed little remorse at that point, because he only focused on the fact that they had succeeded. It wasn't until he actually awoke on one of the transport ships that he realized Holdo had a plan, and that he can't always be in the drivers seat, as it were. 

I doubt he knew that most of the Resistance was lost because of his actions until later. No way he could've known that DJ ratted them out to the First Order. Poe's character arc was pretty clear in the movie, though. He made a huge mistake because he couldn't take being in the backseat and out of the loop, but ultimately learns an important lesson about leadership, though at a great cost.

I think you're reading to much into the moment when he realized she had a plan all along. He was still trying to lead people and tell them what they should do after that point.

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I would say IHE’s video on Last Jedi lines up pretty well with my own opinions.

 

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TLJ was a step up from TFA. I feel like if they had used the George Lucas intended idea for 7 (which is basically what we got in 8) then a lot of these gripes about characters like Finn, Rey, Poe, etc would be lessened.

One redeeming factor that I thoroughly enjoyed is how they portrayed Luke. He was able to acknowledge the flawed logic of the Jedi. He also became much more pacifist as opposed to all the other Jedi we have seen in the past. While his character wasn't perfect by no means in the film I do think it was a nice breath of fresh air. Plus, they really showed just how strong he was with the Force.

Would I have liked to see the Thrawn trilogy instead of this? Most definitely. But I'll take this and accept that it is a flawed film. Just like every other film in the franchise. I'm not gonna whine and cry then make a version of the movie with every female character edited out though.

Now, the one thing I'm not sure on is the broom boy at the end. I really hope they do a major time jump from 8 to 9 so he grows up a bit. That also justifies being able to write off Leia easily and would give Rey plenty of time to train on her own, sorta like what Luke did.

Also, I found this so here 

 

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