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Choppasmith

I don't quite understand how changing jobs work in DQIII

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Playing DQIII for the first time. At the part just before facing Hargon. I've been avoiding doing any job changes because I'm not quite sure how it works. The in-game dialog seems to say you start completely fresh but some of your stats carry over....? I've played DQIX and remember that you could carry over certain "skills" like being able to use certain weapons, or boosting damage of certain things, but DQ III seemingly has none of that.

 

Could someone explain it to me, please? :????:

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Hargon? That's Dragon Quest II. :P

 

In DQIII, when you class change someone at level 20 (the minimum unless it's been changed in the mobile port) any skills/spells learned by that character will carry over in addition to any stat gains their previous class had gained. The stats get reduced down to a 1/4th or 1/3rd (I'm sure ignasia can give the specifics) but essentially you could end up with a Martial Artist who knows all the healing spells and would have higher intelligence thanks to previously being a Cleric. Or you could end up with a Warrior who has the speed of a Thief and all the skills that class and a Merchant can learn.

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Hargon? That's Dragon Quest II. :P

 

In DQIII, when you class change someone at level 20 (the minimum unless it's been changed in the mobile port) any skills/spells learned by that character will carry over in addition to any stat gains their previous class had gained. The stats get reduced down to a 1/4th or 1/3rd (I'm sure ignasia can give the specifics) but essentially you could end up with a Martial Artist who knows all the healing spells and would have higher intelligence thanks to previously being a Cleric. Or you could end up with a Warrior who has the speed of a Thief and all the skills that class and a Merchant can learn.

 

Oh, dang, Baramos, right? Not sure why I had Hargon on the brain. Ooops. But thanks, that makes much more sense. It seems a lot of the guides I found go over stats and what's learned at certain levels but nothing as to how class changing actually works. Thanks!

Edited by Choppasmith

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One word of caution though: Once you change your class, you can't just change it back if you don't like the result.  If you had a level 40 martial artist and you changed it to a mage (resetting you to level 1, albeit with the stat boost like Yangus described), You can't change back to Martial Artist until you are level 20 again, and doing so will again reset you to level 1.

 

I find that class changing is DQ3 is not at all necessary.  I usually make a Mage into a Sage once I am able to, but other than that, I find the extra grind required in class changing is not justified by any stat boosts or availability of spells.  That's just me though.

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Yeah, that's why I was afraid to change anything because I didn't want to be unable to change back, I've been able to get through pretty far without changing but I too have a Mage ready to change into a Sage though. I presume like any job they start at Lv 1? What's the best place to go for grinding?

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The last time I played this I class changed a Level 20 Goof-Off to a Sage and then used the Book of Satori to class change a level 40 Priest into a second Sage.  Then once I got bored of having two Sages, I class changed one of them again into a Soldier.

 

Keeping a Goof-Off in your party for a long time can be aggravating.  I don't recommend it.  If it's the mobile version maybe use the Thief to Half-Inch an extra book from a monster--I forget which carries it, but I think it was an Elysium Bird or something like it.

 

What I don't like about class changing in DQIII is that the advantage to having all Mage, Priest or Sage skills on a Martial Artist or a Soldier requires you to grind or play-through to about Level 40 (so that you have all the spells and a higher Max MP yield after the change).  But at that point you're already at the end of the game.  If it were the original, there's no reason to keep playing.  If it's the SFC or mobile version you now have a Level 1 character to grind for a Bonus dungeon, which isn't much fun either.  In college I level grinded the main character in the SFC version to 99 and there was absolutely no benefit, either.  Future games like DQVI, DQVII and DQIX do a much better job with class changing (and also, from what I hear, DQHII).

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Outside of turning a non-fighting class into a sage(since it's basically just a pure upgrade) 3's class changing is only really useful for taking on the optional boss. Most of the good spells that you'd want to learn in a magic class don't come until the 30s and if you're already in the 30s you can already just beat the game anyway.

Edited by The n00b Avenger

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Outside of turning a non-fighting class into a sage(since it's basically just a pure upgrade) 3's class changing is only really useful for taking on the optional boss. Most of the good spells that you'd want to learn in a magic class don't come until the 30s and if you're already in the 30s you can already just beat the game anyway.

 

This is true.  Especially given the orb. 

 

Though mid-30's is easy for gamers more adept, so if you feel comfortable with your skills, you'll be fine, otherwise level to about 40~42 for the final boss, TC.  That extra HP/MP and stat buffers will go a long way.

 

 

The last time I played this I class changed a Level 20 Goof-Off to a Sage and then used the Book of Satori to class change a level 40 Priest into a second Sage.  Then once I got bored of having two Sages, I class changed one of them again into a Soldier.

 

Keeping a Goof-Off in your party for a long time can be aggravating.  I don't recommend it.  If it's the mobile version maybe use the Thief to Half-Inch an extra book from a monster--I forget which carries it, but I think it was an Elysium Bird or something like it.

 

What I don't like about class changing in DQIII is that the advantage to having all Mage, Priest or Sage skills on a Martial Artist or a Soldier requires you to grind or play-through to about Level 40 (so that you have all the spells and a higher Max MP yield after the change).  But at that point you're already at the end of the game.  If it were the original, there's no reason to keep playing.  If it's the SFC or mobile version you now have a Level 1 character to grind for a Bonus dungeon, which isn't much fun either.  In college I level grinded the main character in the SFC version to 99 and there was absolutely no benefit, either.  Future games like DQVI, DQVII and DQIX do a much better job with class changing (and also, from what I hear, DQHII).

 

The thing is, in the second world, if you abuse leveling around Rimuldar, it's about 1~3 hours from 1 to 40.  Maybe 4~5 if you're REALLY unlucky.

 

Of course the NES versus the remakes is drastically different.  It's about double to triple that time for the original game.

 

 

 

Hargon? That's Dragon Quest II. :P

 

In DQIII, when you class change someone at level 20 (the minimum unless it's been changed in the mobile port) any skills/spells learned by that character will carry over in addition to any stat gains their previous class had gained. The stats get reduced down to a 1/4th or 1/3rd (I'm sure ignasia can give the specifics) but essentially you could end up with a Martial Artist who knows all the healing spells and would have higher intelligence thanks to previously being a Cleric. Or you could end up with a Warrior who has the speed of a Thief and all the skills that class and a Merchant can learn.

 

Stats are reduced by 1/2.

 

Due to the nature of DQ3's stat growth system, you'll experience really low stat growth for the first 10~15 levels, as each level has a "baseline" that determines the potential growth for that level.  So let's say at level 10 the base is 50, and you have 75, then you'll get a 0 or a 1 until you hit a level where your stat baseline is in range for normal stat growth.  At that point you'll see normal growth again.  Ultimately you'll almost always (about 90+% of the time) end up with higher overall stats for each character, especially if you continue into the 30's and 40's.  You'll still end up ahead if you keep switching mid-late 20's.

 

Though again, as n00b stated, it's only worthwhile if you're aiming for post-game (and if you want to challenge yourself with the fully powered up form of the final boss...you'll know what I mean when you get to that point).

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I once beat the NES version with the hero, a goof-off, a priest (then pilgrim) who became a sage and a mage. Not to difficult.

 

The SFC version though- seems like they upped the ante in terms of difficulty. I'd have to call that a good thing, because it makes class changing all the more worthwhile.

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I once beat the NES version with the hero, a goof-off, a priest (then pilgrim) who became a sage and a mage. Not to difficult.

 

The SFC version though- seems like they upped the ante in terms of difficulty. I'd have to call that a good thing, because it makes class changing all the more worthwhile.

 

Oh...they did indeed.  While faster to level, and overall better stat growth system...and augmented with the personality system, the remakes definitely increased the difficulty to boot.  Mostly in terms of bosses.  The GBC is noticeably easier than the SFC or both mobile releases, but still overall rougher in terms of the bosses than the original was.

 

For instance, Zoma has about 4x the HP.  Baramos has 2x in the SFC/mobile, 2.5x in the GBC (though the GBC removes his regeneration, making him ultimately much easier).  So definitely, it's a nice tradeoff, and a direction I wish was taken with the other remakes.  For all the difficulty boosts to 4/5/6...even a few minor tweaks to 7, and a major overhaul to certain bosses in 8, the other tweaks to render the game easier and faster just totally override any changes for the positive (though 7's final and first bonus bosses are made both easier, and MUCH easier in the remakes).  Would have been nice if they increased a certain bonus bosses turn-count to hit 4 turns as a possibility, but I digress, maybe someday someone might make patches for the DS and 3DS DQ remakes....hard-mode!

Edited by ignasia7

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To be fair, while Zoma is a durable SOB in the remakes, they lowered his attack power and there's actually a decent amount of equipment with ice resistance this time so it's at least easier to stay alive against him than in the original. Baramos also had his turns changed from 2x to 1-2x and sleep is actually a viable strategy against him unlike the original which can make him easier if it goes your way

 

Their low HP made them easy to blitz in the original if you had the fire power(but the regen made them really hard if you didn't) while the remakes reduces their attack power and ups their durability for a more balanced affair.

 

(Still not really a fan of the HP regen mechanic though)

Edited by The n00b Avenger

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I played through the mobile version without class changes.  I basically had a mage, priest, soldier and a thief.  Average level on completion was about 35 (including optional post-game boss).  The fights were not easy, but not impossible.

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I played through the mobile version without class changes.  I basically had a mage, priest, soldier and a thief.  Average level on completion was about 35 (including optional post-game boss).  The fights were not easy, but not impossible.

I have a party consisting of the Hero, Mage, Priest, and a Warrior. They were all about Level 32 and I really got my ass handed to me by Baramos, so I had to grind a bit. Definitely thinking of turning my Priest into another Warrior once she's learned all the spells.

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To be fair, while Zoma is a durable SOB in the remakes, they lowered his attack power and there's actually a decent amount of equipment with ice resistance this time so it's at least easier to stay alive against him than in the original. Baramos also had his turns changed from 2x to 1-2x and sleep is actually a viable strategy against him unlike the original which can make him easier if it goes your way

 

Their low HP made them easy to blitz in the original if you had the fire power(but the regen made them really hard if you didn't) while the remakes reduces their attack power and ups their durability for a more balanced affair.

 

(Still not really a fan of the HP regen mechanic though)

 

Hmm...Well...for male characters, and non-Thieves, spell/breath resistance is about the same for all versions.  Females really reap the benefits for breath reduction, and with Insulatle, that definitely makes an impact on the remakes, rendering a nice buffer.

 

Baramos (NES -> SFC -> GBC <if different>):

HP: 900 -> 2500 -> 3000

MP: Infinite

Attack: 220 -> 240

Defense: 100 -> 200

Agility: 85

AI: 2

Evade: 0

Action Count: 2x -> 1x (33.3%)- 2x (66.7%) -> 1x (50%)- 2x (50%)

Breath Attack change: 92~127 -> 80~100 -> NONE

Kaboom/Kafrizzle change: +1 on the maximum in the remakes

HP recovery change: 100 -> 90~110

Status Resistances:

炎:○ ヒ:△ ãƒï¼šâ–³ デ:× 死:◎ 爆:◎ 光:◎ 幻:△ 眠:○ å¸ï¼šâ—Ž 魔:○ 乱:◎ 守:△ 早:◎

For status effects I can find no changes anywhere (do you mind linking me to them?).  Baramos is as vulnerable to Sleep in the NES as he is in the remakes (a 30% chance to land for all versions).

 

Slight Action sequence re-order:

NES - Kaboom -> Attack -> Inferno -> Kafrizzle -> Blasto -> Attack -> Kaboom -> Fuddle

Re - Kaboom -> Attack -> Inferno -> Attack -> Kafrizzle -> Fuddle -> Kaboom -> Blasto

 

Major Nerfs in the remakes: Breath Damage, Turn Count (especially the GBC)...though overall the SFC is definitely the harder battle.  The GBC is further bolstered by its resistances (more equipment has resistances...same goes for DW1+2...it seems the GBC remakes are the start of making the games MUCH faster and easier, though at least the original trilogy had some measure of difficulty).

 

 

Zoma <weakened> (NES -> SFC -> GBC <if different>):

HP: 1023 -> 4700

MP: Infinite

Attack: 320 -> 360

Defense: 200

Agility: 80

AI: 1

Evade: 0

Regen: 100 -> NOTHING

Action Count: 2x

 

Action sequence change: Cool Breath (2nd level breath attack) was removed in the remakes...damage output is the same for the high level Ice Breath, Freezing Blizzard (3rd level).

 

Major changes to resistances:

NES

Fire:2    Ice:3    Wind:2    Zap:1    Death:3    Kamikazee:3    Remove/Expel:3

Blind:0    Sleep:3    MP Absorb:3    Silence:3    Confuse:3    Sap:0    Speed Down:3

 

Remakes

Fire:0    Ice:3    Wind:2    Zap:0    Death:3    Kamikazee:3    Remove/Expel:3

Blind:3    Sleep:3    MP Absorb:3    Silence:3    Confuse:3    Sap:0    Speed Down:3

 

This makes a big difference.  He's rendered harder because he cannot be blinded, but can be killed faster (likely due to his enormous HP pool).

 

Zoma <full power> (NES -> SFC -> GBC <if different>):

HP: 1023 -> 4500

MP: Infinite

Attack: 550 -> 500

Defense: 300 -> 350

Agility: 255

Attack Rate: 2x

AI: 2

Evade: 0

Regen: 100 -> 90~110

Drop: Mysterious Hat -> NOTHING

Kacrackle reduction: -1 on the maximum in remakes

 

Pattern change:

 

NES - Freezing Blizzard -> Kacrackle -> Freezing Blizzard -> Attack -> Disruptive Wave

Re - Freezing Blizzard -> Kacrackle -> Freezing Blizzard -> Attack -> Disruptive Wave -> Freezing Blizzard -> Bounce -> Freezing Blizzard

 

It's hard to say.  He's both easier and harder due to his attack pattern changes.  Harder in that classes/sexes with fewer breath resistance gear will take more damage in the long run.  Harder in that Kacrackle is MUCH less prevalent.  Easier in that Attack is less prevalent (due to the nature of DQ3's attack equation, it's about a 21 damage difference with NES Zoma definitely taking the advantage here).  So it's much harder to get a 1-shot kill, especially painful in parties with limited class changes (and thus fewer Priest spells like Revive/Kazing to go around).

 

It's also easier in the remakes for the simple fact of Thieves...clearly, and that Seeds of Wisdom are actually useful in the remakes, unlike the NES, where they're bugged and will decapitate your Hero's MP pool (for those who like using Omniheal).  Nevermind max agility, strength, and HP.  NES HP, while sure it's very possible to find seeds and get to 700+ HP, it takes MUCH longer.  It's why Sages are such a priceless commodity for their overall equipment options and base stats (nevermind their late-game stat growth if you're willing to spend the time to hit level 70+...being the only class in the NES to actually see post-50 stat gains).

 

Here's one area where Zoma in the remakes is substantially more difficult; resistances:

 

NES

Fire:2    Ice:3    Wind:2    Zap:1    Death:3    Kamikazee:3    Remove/Expel:3

Blind:0    Sleep:3    MP Absorb:3    Silence:3    Confuse:3    Sap:0    Speed Down:3

 

Remakes

Fire:3    Ice:3    Wind:3    Zap:3    Death:3    Kamikazee:3    Remove/Expel:3

Blind:3    Sleep:3    MP Absorb:3    Silence:3    Confuse:3    Sap:3    Speed Down:3

 

So he's much harder to damage, having full resistance versus all damage, and cannot be blinded or sapped.  Definitely makes him harder up to the point where your characters have like 700+ HP, maxed other stats, Insulatle can be cast every round by any character, all characters are female (or Mages or Thieves).

Edited by ignasia7

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Baramos's sleep resistance isn't changed but it's not a viable strategy in the original because one, he always gets 2 turns which means he gets 2 chances to wake up and generally he's not going to be out for more than one round. In addition, in the original the enemy can wake up and take an action in the same turn whereas in the remake, the turn they wake up is still a wasted turn. And two, though not quite as significant, is the addition of the sleep staff which lets everyone in the party try to use sleep. Depending on your party layout, you may only have 1 or 2 characters that can cast sleep which won't be that effective given the low success rate, but if you have all 4 use sleep then you have a good chance of putting him out.

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Baramos's sleep resistance isn't changed but it's not a viable strategy in the original because one, he always gets 2 turns which means he gets 2 chances to wake up and generally he's not going to be out for more than one round. In addition, in the original the enemy can wake up and take an action in the same turn whereas in the remake, the turn they wake up is still a wasted turn. And two, though not quite as significant, is the addition of the sleep staff which lets everyone in the party try to use sleep. Depending on your party layout, you may only have 1 or 2 characters that can cast sleep which won't be that effective given the low success rate, but if you have all 4 use sleep then you have a good chance of putting him out.

 

I forgot about the Sleep Staff.  That's a good point.  Definitely makes it easier to put him out.

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