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DQ theories and headcanons+obscure trivia

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I don't know how seriously to take the similarities, frankly. The resemblance to the Lord of the Dragovians' dragon forms could just as easily be born of the fact that they didn't want to create a unique 3D Dragonlord model and reused the models from VIII, and the model then became "tradition" for the major dragons in major 3D releases. In DQVII, by comparison, the heroes turn into blue dragons when they use it.

If I had to make something up about it, I'd say the spell is a high-level specialty spell known by people with an affinity for monsters (which would require us to read that trait back into Maya, who I don't think had it). It started as a Mage/Sage spell in 3, became exclusive to Bianca's daughter, who according to V's party chat really liked the monsters, and from there it became a high-level skill for the Monster classes.

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@Xiggy, thanks!! Your theory is freakin' awesome! :) Especially because it includes all games in the series and uses the info about DQ X. 
Here I'll also try to present my theory about timeline, though it has some dissimilarity with yours. This timeline is rather simplified, it includes for the most part game of the main series.
Firstly, I'm not sure if there are two "twin" timelines (simultaneous?) since DQ III had Zenith castle as bonus dungeon as well as Zenith Dragon in that castle. Probably the alternate timeline is correct only for XI? I prefer to regard all game information as canon, it's easier. :)
Thus, including two DQM games which synopses I read, here is as follows:
11->DQM->6->3->1->4->8->10?->5->2-> Caravan Heart-> 7->9.

The most difficult part is to establish the sequence between 4, 8 and other games. As we see Torneko character in 8th part and know about Ramia's past, we can place this part after 3. Part 5 is clearly in the future (probably, far) of the 4, so it is even more distant than 8.
Then, in DQ 7 (its prequel is Caravan Hearts) we see one of the bosses, Estark, which is a progeny of the original Estark form fourth and fifth parts. In addition, manga gives us info that the world of DQ 7 is in fact very distant future of the DQ 3 (transformed after the First War??). The ninth part has no clear relations with other parts, though it has Observatory which can be the same as Zenithia or its legacy. Also, it has the bosses from all previous parts. Here we find the end of the God's story.

@JaybirdC, in fact I thought rather of the kalpic cycle, not of post-apocalypse world. :)

Edited by Raendar
Need for answer to JaybirdC's opinion.

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On 7/21/2018 at 11:04 AM, Raendar said:

@JaybirdC, in fact I thought rather of the kalpic cycle, not of post-apocalypse world. :)

Oh, okay. Well, it occurs to me we discussed this in another thread, so I'm gonna put another headcanon that there is something of a cycle that I mentioned elsewhere.

On 7/24/2018 at 10:33 PM, JaybirdC said:

Theory: The three games are set in different worlds, which occur in different cyclical phases of the same cosmos, transitioning from one to the next and back again, with old elements left behind to be discovered by the current living. V is therefore both predecessor and successor to VI.

It's a joke theory, but it was relevant.

Another more serious one from the Rubiss thread:

On 12/2/2017 at 3:39 PM, JaybirdC said:
On 12/2/2017 at 3:28 PM, Hopeful Death said:

Though there's a fun theory that Erdrick actually started a family with Rubiss herself, since there's an NPC that says that Rubiss's Charm is a symbol of her love. Though... that's a bit of a stretch lol. But if he were hanging out with a goddess it would make sense for people not to have seen him afterwards.

Given how many ancient and mythic heroes are half-divine, that wouldn't be out of place; it would also lend some credence to why the lineage of Erdrick is so important in Alefgardian history.

New headcanon declared!

 

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Hey there, it's been a while! I've been digging the DQ Japanese Wikia for some time, looking for any dates in the Zenithia timeline, but couldn't find any. Also, I can't shake the idea out of my head that Estark awakes every thousand years. Was it said in the games, or am I unconsciously making this up? (It's been too long since I've played either DQIV or V)

On the other hand, I've found lots of dates from the Roto timeline (from various sources, but mainly from the aforementioned Wikia and some novelization of DQI and II). I've come up with a timeline that includes DQI, II, III, VII, Emblem of Roto (and its sequel), Monsters 2 and 3, Builders 2 aaaaaand I think that's all. Would love to be able to do the same with the Sky Castle series tho'.

I recently started to look (since I can't read Japanese) at the manga adaptation of Spirit Rubiss Legend (which has been confirmed canon by Horii if I'm not mistaken), and from what I could gather... The very first Roto was Dialto, Rubiss' lover. And the title Roto would say "he who is loved by God" (as in, by Rubiss). It's also implied that the following Rotos would be descendants of aforementioned (gosh I love this word!) Dialto. I find it rather sad for Rubiss to name heroes in honor of her deceased lover. 

Also, headcanon is that DQX NOT happening after DQIV anymore (as I couldn't find the interview I mentioned last time), but is rather a distant future -and possibly on another world- of DQIX. Recent quests dealing with Astolia's mythology (Astolia being the name of the continent/world of X), refers a sentinel fighting alongside a grey dragon (kinda like IX's main character and Greyrnarl), and atop of that, the Human's God in X is called Gran Zenith. Why is this important you ask? Well, because Gran Zenith is the Japanese name of Zenus, from IX.

A neat theory I read the other day was that IX and X are all about the old and new testament: in IX we have the genesis with Zenus making humans and Angels, someone ate a forbidden fruit and Zenus wished to destroy his creation. There's also the fallen angel thing, which turns out to become some kind of Lucifer thing. In X's past, there is mention of a tower big enough to touch the sky, that angered the Gods, who then made every tribe (Humans, Dwarves, Ogres, Weddies, Pukuripos, Elves and Dragovians fight each other. Oe could also see the Orion (IX's train) as some kind of Ark, that could have lead IX's hero.ine and others to X's world. That could explain the presence of a golden train that can go in every big city too. 

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Posted (edited)

So, I’m a little nervous about posting this because I’m new and I don’t know how ridiculous it sounds. Please don’t be too harsh?

I have fallen deeply in love with DQXI, though I haven’t played it yet. I’ve preordered the “Roto Edition” that includes the special blue Switch. I’m not just “excited”; I’m distracted from everything else in life. I’m afraid I may lose my job once this game arrives.

To distract myself from spoilers, I’ve been researching the Erdrick Trilogy, since that context is supposed to be relevant. Those are also, to date, the only DQ games I have ever played, and I think I was 12 or 13 when I finished DQIII. This interest and anticipation is bringing up a lot of core creativity and imagination for me. It’s already a fairly intense experience.

I don’t really want to go back and play I~III, so there may be details that destroy these theories, but in my reading and research, there are a few ideas that just keep coming up. I’d like to share them just to see what more knowledgeable people think:

1️⃣

(Pre-DQI)

Humans began to excel at magic, and began keeping some secrets from dragons. They also began to fear the dragons’ raw physical power, since now humans worried about dragons’ reaction if they learned humans were keeping secrets. This led to humans developing even more advanced magic, for “protection”.

 

Dragons did not understand what they were feeling, but felt the tension escalate. Eventually their magical prowess faded, and as humans began being more openly segregationist, dragons lost their ability to speak and use human language.

 

When humans finally felt powerful enough to engage in open confrontation, the wars between humans and dragons waged, and nearly every living thing died. Finally the dragons retreated so far and so deep that they became myths and legends. They would leave the fields and towns to the humans, that both might survive. They vowed not to be interested in vengeance, but in time, the erosion of language led to the weakening of such vows.

 

One dragon was born, motherless and abandoned, with a humanlike appearance. His mother, the Dragon Queen, used the last of her magic to give him this glamour to protect him, as the human-dragon rift had become genocidal at this point. She hoped in this way, her kind and her Dragon Prince would survive. The boy was a genius with language, possessing incredible intelligence. Eventually, though, that intelligence would be twisted into a passion for vengeance and he would become Dragonlord.

 

2️⃣

Hargon (DQII) is secretly the grandson of Dragonlord, the result of his rape of Princess Gwaelin.

…I know this is harsh, I’m sorry. Her kidnapping makes even more sense to me with this, though. And his siring a lineage is canon. I think it’s simpler and cleaner than coming up with another character or just accepting his mate as some unnamed rando…

Or — better! — maybe they have a real romance, Beauty & the Beast-style. But once she joins him in Charlock, Gwaelin realizes she really is just a prisoner. He only used her to produce an heir, and so she leaves with Erdrick when she is rescued! Hooray! I really dislike rape stories. I’m surprised and ashamed it took me a couple days to think of this much better solution.

He wanted his heir to have royal blood. Unlike his twin brother (the canonic grandson of Dragonlord in DQII), Hargon does not revere Dragonlord. Instead he worships Malroth, the god of pure destruction. Hargon does not want harmony with the humans (he resents his own human blood). He doesn’t even really want vengeance. He simply wants to unmake the world.

 

*The Luminary suggested to Rubiss the plan to humanize Malroth in the alternate (DQB - I have not played this game, so this may make no sense at all) timeline in order to create a rippling effect of softening Malroth throughout all realities. The Luminary’s goal is complete, blissful harmony. He just wants to be at home and in love, safe. He understands somehow, that’s what Dragonlord wanted, too. The world has been ripped apart by Zoma’s manipulations against Rubiss.

 

3️⃣

Baramos and his master Zoma are the original enemies of Rubiss. 

The Luminary is the incarnation, not of the girl (I like female Erdrick, who has been misgendered by history, but it really doesn’t matter whether s/he was daughter or son to Ortega. I just like the notion that legends are full of errors.) who jumped into the world of darkness, but of the Hero who basks in the world of light. Erdrick was an incarnation of the Luminary, not the other way round.

Zoma’s plan was simply to drive a rift between humans and dragons, and laugh as they ripped the world apart. He’s a troll.

Dragonlord is in fact the egg of the Dragon Queen. Born alone, found and raised by humans, similar to the Luminary. In his youth, his mother’s protective magic hid him, made him look human. As he gets older, his deep affinity for nature, creatures, and history leads him to study obsessively. His physical appearance also changes, revealing more dragon features. He becomes increasingly isolated, eventually discovering the abandoned Charlock Castle (“Charlock” will always be canon for me!) and taking up residence there, developing his magical powers. As he eventually discovers his true heritage, he blames Erdrick for his mother’s death and resents all humans.

Somewhere, Zoma laughs hysterically.

 

…So. I dunno. I’ve been thinking a lot about that. Is it directly contradicted by canon, or can it work?

This image from Nintendo Power of the magical world of harmony between humans and dragons just really stays with me, and it makes Dragonlord far more compelling:

‘…Long, long ago it is said dragons and men lived in harmony. In those ages, dragons and men alike trained themselves in the art of magic. But this magic also served as a catalyst for the growth of evil.  One such soul, a dragon from Charlock, would blacken the pages of history and change the world for all time…

When the dragon from Charlock learned the secrets of magic his soul turned dark. He sought unlimited power and destruction. Even the bravest of men or dragon would only whisper the name of the “Dragon-lord”. Erdrick was one such brave man.

One brave man sets out alone to combat the dragon.’

 

Somehow, the Luminary just radiates love, innocence, and empathy for me. Like he could somehow move through time (I’m not sure whether this is actually in his power set), go to the young Dragonlord and just hug him, love him, restore the harmony.

I’m excited to see what happens with Erik leading a Monsters game. I’m hopeful for this same kind of “love the monsters” narrative. I know nothing about DQM, so that may even already be a thing. For all I know, that’s exactly what it’s all about.

I’ll stop rambling now. So… “Hi!” This is me. Can I hang here?

Edited by JustACorpse
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So… “Hi!” This is me. Can I hang here?


Welcome, you'll fit right in!
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22 hours ago, Plattym3 said:


 

 


Welcome, you'll fit right in!

 

Such a warm welcome! Thank you! That really means a lot.☺️

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Posted (edited)
On 8/10/2019 at 8:29 AM, JustACorpse said:

…So. I dunno. I’ve been thinking a lot about that. Is it directly contradicted by canon, or can it work?

I'd say it depends what you consider Canon or not.

The novel adaptation of DQI, II and III, as well as the manga Emblem of Roto (and its sequel), both supervised by Yuji Horii give a pretty solid background to the Dragonlord however, which would probably contradict your take on the story. ^^

But hey, Nintendo recently said that Canon is free of interpretation in their most recent Zelda encyclopedia, so your take is probably as Canon as it can be if you only consider the games I guess. ^^

As for the background of Erdrick/Roto, I can only recommend "Spirit Rubiss Legend", a novel (turned into a 7 volume manga) retalling the past of, well you guessed, Rubiss. The books came out in the early 90s, and were announced canon by Horii himself. 

Of course none of it was ever localized, but you can find résumés of it rather easily online. 

Edited by Xiggy
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On 8/22/2019 at 5:46 PM, Xiggy said:

I'd say it depends what you consider Canon or not.

The novel adaptation of DQI, II and III, as well as the manga Emblem of Roto (and its sequel), both supervised by Yuji Horii give a pretty solid background to the Dragonlord however, which would probably contradict your take on the story. ^^

But hey, Nintendo recently said that Canon is free of interpretation in their most recent Zelda encyclopedia, so your take is probably as Canon as it can be if you only consider the games I guess. ^^

As for the background of Erdrick/Roto, I can only recommend "Spirit Rubiss Legend", a novel (turned into a 7 volume manga) retalling the past of, well you guessed, Rubiss. The books came out in the early 90s, and were announced canon by Horii himself. 

Of course none of it was ever localized, but you can find résumés of it rather easily online. 

Thank you! I’ll definitely look into these other sources of lore!

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6 hours ago, JustACorpse said:

Thank you! I’ll definitely look into these other sources of lore!

Hope you'll have fun doing so ^^

If I remember correctly, someone here had started translating the novelization of DQ1 some time ago. I should assume that he is still doing so, and if the quality of his work hasn't declined, then I ought to tell you to read it, cause it's jolly good! 

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Not sure if this is the proper section to voice this or not (if it's not, tell me where to move it) but I've been planning on writing a novelization adapting the story of Dragon Quest IV. If my avatar didn't already indicate it, it is my favorite game of the series.

I'm no stranger to writing--I've been writing for 20 years now just for fun and have a 5 ft. stack of various manuscript pages (I print everything I write out).

I've written adaptations of Dragon Quest I, II and III over a decade ago, so I'm no stranger to adapting some of the games in this series into book form.

The best book I've ever written has to be my adaptation of Dragon Quest I. I had a lot of fun with that one. During the course of my writing for that one, I surprised myself by realizing (in my canon) that the Dragonlord had reason for what he was doing. I realized that he was bullied as a child for being part dragon. Alefgard, in its post-Zoma days, had grown complacent and somewhat bigoted toward monster kind. They never gave the Dragonlord a chance. The citizens ostracized him from society. In despair, he fled to Charlock castle where he would bide his time for the day he would bring Alefgard to its knees.

This story involved the main hero being someone who was ALSO bullied in society who learned he was the secret progeny of Erdrick.

It was quite an emotional book that saw the hero somewhat empathizing with the dragonlord, the two coming to a form of understanding, and the hero ultimately dismissing the dragonlord's war on Alefgard. He tries to appeal to the dragonlord by telling him that there is still good in Alefgard--that people can grow and change. The dragonlord succumbs to his hatred in the fight, however, forcing the hero to defeat him. Before dying, the Dragonlord had a moment of clarity and thanked the hero for "setting me free" before dying.

It wasn't my intention to make him sympathetic. I didn't set out to write him that way. The thing about writing is that the arc can sometimes twist you in strange directions. It's best to go with the flow. If you defy the arc, it can lead to a sloppy mess of a story. In the end, I wound up not only adapting the first game into a book--I had added my own signature to it, turning it into a surprisingly emotional adventure.

Two men treated poorly by the society of Alefgard with both going in different directions.

I featured a happy ending, however--the spirit of the Dragonlord (Whom I named Dracolord in the book)  appeared before the hero (before the hero set sail with Gwaelin) and informed him that he'd found peace in the afterlife and thanked him for freeing him from the dark clutches before he had died.

It was a story of redemption, self-reflection, reflection on society and true anti-bullying message without feeling preachy in any of those terms.

LOL! I know--it's making a mountain out of a mole hill. I mean--it's a little 8-bit archaic RPG with almost no story and wafer-thin characters. I sure fleshed it out, LOL!

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Anyway, it may take a long while, but I eventually plan to sit down and adapt Dragon Quest IV, as I was stating. The entire story captivated me.

I loved the layering of Necrosaro. He cares only for monster kind and want to eradicate humanity. Rose, however, has a more magnanimous view and manages to keep Saro's sanity at bay with her love/support/encouragement to try to find peace with the humans.

One of Saro's reasons for hating humans is how he sees his beloved Rose victimized by thieves in search of her ruby tears.

Though he's been plotting the destruction of mankind, it is Rose who keeps him slowing down in his cause and holding him back from pressing the nuclear button.

Aamon, in disgust of watching Saro appearing to falter, takes the ultimate step in manipulating the Great Secret of Evolution into occurring. He plots Rose's kidnapping/murder and makes it look like the work of humans. In a fit of rage and despair, Saro's last bastion of sanity crumbles and he proceeds with the evolution, becoming a monster.

The dichotomy between the Hero and Saro is quite ironic: the hero had the love of his life (his friend from the village) taken from him by monsters while Saro THOUGHT the love of his life was taken from him by humans...when, in reality, it was his corrupt disciple Aamon Radimvice.

My book will merge Chapters 5 and 6 together into the finale and will feature a fight with Necrosaro that will be stalled by some of the heroes bringing a resurrected Rose before him who reveals the truth. Slowly, Saro comes to the realization that perhaps monsters and humans are more alike than he'd realized. They take down the truth evil: Aamon Radimvice.

Saro abandons his cause, electing to retire into peace with Rose. While he still doesn't love humans in the end, he comes to an understanding with the hero, realizing he caused the hero the very same grief (taking his village and loved ones) as Aamon caused him. Both sides come to an understanding that they never have before. This understanding would pave the way for a potential DQV adaptation I may do where this understanding between the Hero and Saro will play a role in the monster recruitment of V in a society that has some form of fragile peace between some humans and some monsters. We'll see.

The story of DQIV captivates me in many ways. It never sat well with me, knowing the Zenith Dragon was ultimately responsible for orphaning the hero. He seems spiteful toward non-Zenithians in IV and it is only in V where he seems to have changed his views to an extent. I'm assuming this is why the Zenith Dragon restored the heroe's village, childhood friend and presumably the other villagers. I plan on digging into this further for my book adaptation and perhaps having the hero discover this hard truth in a definitive way.

Going by the change in the Dragon by V, it's obvious the hero of IV inspired a change in his thinking: this half-human/half-Zenithian saves the entire world and refuses to live in his Zenithian paradise, electing to return to the main world instead.

This is what makes IV so special to me: the Zenith Dragon is the analogue to Saro but both characters flawed in their method of thinking. Both characters helped promote/cause this mess and rift and both characters come to some form of realization of this by the end.

The hero turned the King's request to live in Zenithia down in the end, asked for absolutely nothing and left. I think this surprised the King. I think that's why he revived the village at the end--he realized he'd inadvertently wronged this hero who saved it all. His returning the hero's loved ones in the end was the start of this change in the Dragon King.

LOL! Sorry for the long post. I know these games have wafer-thin characterization quite often but I'm always looking for the story behind everything. I get involved in these games heavily while playing them. I know I'm not the only one! ;) 

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26 minutes ago, ErdrickRotoLotoOrtega said:

Anyway, it may take a long while, but I eventually plan to sit down and adapt Dragon Quest IV, as I was stating. The entire story captivated me.

I loved the layering of Necrosaro. He cares only for monster kind and want to eradicate humanity. Rose, however, has a more magnanimous view and manages to keep Saro's sanity at bay with her love/support/encouragement to try to find peace with the humans.

One of Saro's reasons for hating humans is how he sees his beloved Rose victimized by thieves in search of her ruby tears.

Though he's been plotting the destruction of mankind, it is Rose who keeps him slowing down in his cause and holding him back from pressing the nuclear button.

Aamon, in disgust of watching Saro appearing to falter, takes the ultimate step in manipulating the Great Secret of Evolution into occurring. He plots Rose's kidnapping/murder and makes it look like the work of humans. In a fit of rage and despair, Saro's last bastion of sanity crumbles and he proceeds with the evolution, becoming a monster.

The dichotomy between the Hero and Saro is quite ironic: the hero had the love of his life (his friend from the village) taken from him by monsters while Saro THOUGHT the love of his life was taken from him by humans...when, in reality, it was his corrupt disciple Aamon Radimvice.

My book will merge Chapters 5 and 6 together into the finale and will feature a fight with Necrosaro that will be stalled by some of the heroes bringing a resurrected Rose before him who reveals the truth. Slowly, Saro comes to the realization that perhaps monsters and humans are more alike than he'd realized. They take down the truth evil: Aamon Radimvice.

Saro abandons his cause, electing to retire into peace with Rose. While he still doesn't love humans in the end, he comes to an understanding with the hero, realizing he caused the hero the very same grief (taking his village and loved ones) as Aamon caused him. Both sides come to an understanding that they never have before. This understanding would pave the way for a potential DQV adaptation I may do where this understanding between the Hero and Saro will play a role in the monster recruitment of V in a society that has some form of fragile peace between some humans and some monsters. We'll see.

The story of DQIV captivates me in many ways. It never sat well with me, knowing the Zenith Dragon was ultimately responsible for orphaning the hero. He seems spiteful toward non-Zenithians in IV and it is only in V where he seems to have changed his views to an extent. I'm assuming this is why the Zenith Dragon restored the heroe's village, childhood friend and presumably the other villagers. I plan on digging into this further for my book adaptation and perhaps having the hero discover this hard truth in a definitive way.

Going by the change in the Dragon by V, it's obvious the hero of IV inspired a change in his thinking: this half-human/half-Zenithian saves the entire world and refuses to live in his Zenithian paradise, electing to return to the main world instead.

This is what makes IV so special to me: the Zenith Dragon is the analogue to Saro but both characters flawed in their method of thinking. Both characters helped promote/cause this mess and rift and both characters come to some form of realization of this by the end.

The hero turned the King's request to live in Zenithia down in the end, asked for absolutely nothing and left. I think this surprised the King. I think that's why he revived the village at the end--he realized he'd inadvertently wronged this hero who saved it all. His returning the hero's loved ones in the end was the start of this change in the Dragon King.

LOL! Sorry for the long post. I know these games have wafer-thin characterization quite often but I'm always looking for the story behind everything. I get involved in these games heavily while playing them. I know I'm not the only one! ;) 

If you look under the Dragon Quest IV section of the Den, there should a spot in the sidebar where an old member’s adaptation of the first two chapters of the game have been converted into a book. I think the project was dropped midway through chapter two. It was a fun read, from what I remember, so give it a read.

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If you look under the Dragon Quest IV section of the Den, there should a spot in the sidebar where an old member’s adaptation of the first two chapters of the game have been converted into a book. I think the project was dropped midway through chapter two. It was a fun read, from what I remember, so give it a read.
I've been meaning to read that but have never gotten around to it.
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40 minutes ago, eal said:

If you look under the Dragon Quest IV section of the Den, there should a spot in the sidebar where an old member’s adaptation of the first two chapters of the game have been converted into a book. I think the project was dropped midway through chapter two. It was a fun read, from what I remember, so give it a read.

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll look into that sometime. :) 

I think we all interpret the stories of these games a bit differently and that's refreshing. Dragon Quest games are open to interpretation to a certain extent. I can only imagine all the fan theories on things such as whether or not the entire series is within the same continuity, whether or not the very Earth-like world of DQIII is actually an earth of our past or some alternate dimension Earth, etc.

Edited by ErdrickRotoLotoOrtega
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