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OMG the money nerfing is insane.

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You could easily walk into a dungeon with hot, new alchemized gear....if you had the patience. It's just annoying to have to wait, so instant alchemy pot=win in my book.

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You could easily walk into a dungeon with hot, new alchemized gear....if you had the patience. It's just annoying to have to wait, so instant alchemy pot=win in my book.

And you could walk into the waterfall cave at lv.99 . . . If you had the patience. This is the whole reason why alchemy didn't progress if you were just sitting around in VIII you aren't supposed to just get everything you can alchemise right off the bat to do so is objectively unbalancing. The whole point is not to wait until you had the best shiny new armor and huge stocks of advanced healing items so that the monsters have a snowball's chance in hell of killing you.

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Honestly the cooking wait removal was the best thing the iOS/Android version of the game did, and the main reason I actually prefer the iOS release to the PS2 one lol.

 

Having to wait for a few minutes for Alchemy was one of the most pointless things in the game originally. It was unnecessary and tedious, especially since you could not cook multiple things at once. Ultimately it just leads to casting Holy Protection near Farebury and running in circles till it dings. You get the item anyway, so it doesn't affect the game balance at all. It's literally pointless.

 

And that is my thoughts on that.

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You could always run around the current area you were in and look for treasure chests on the overworld and hunt Infamous Monsters.

 

To each their own I suppose. I'm not surprised most everyone prefers instant alchemy.

Edited by YangustheLegendaryBandit

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Honestly the cooking wait removal was the best thing the iOS/Android version of the game did, and the main reason I actually prefer the iOS release to the PS2 one lol.Having to wait for a few minutes for Alchemy was one of the most pointless things in the game originally. It was unnecessary and tedious, especially since you could not cook multiple things at once. Ultimately it just leads to casting Holy Protection near Farebury and running in circles till it dings. You get the item anyway, so it doesn't affect the game balance at all. It's literally pointless.And that is my thoughts on that.

I just explained the point of it the point of the timer was to keep alchemy from being unbalanced they took it a step further and made it so that you couldn't just sit there and get the item while idle. It isn't literally or figuratively pointless because the whole damn point was to not benefit from alchemy in a way that would unbalance the game. If you chose to break the game by doing all of that stuff it wasted your time at the very least there should be an option to disable it. Anyway I've lost my ability to be civil about this this is becoming a vapid genre for a society of vapid people who are extremely impatient and afraid of challenge.

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Honestly the cooking wait removal was the best thing the iOS/Android version of the game did, and the main reason I actually prefer the iOS release to the PS2 one lol.Having to wait for a few minutes for Alchemy was one of the most pointless things in the game originally. It was unnecessary and tedious, especially since you could not cook multiple things at once. Ultimately it just leads to casting Holy Protection near Farebury and running in circles till it dings. You get the item anyway, so it doesn't affect the game balance at all. It's literally pointless.And that is my thoughts on that.

I just explained the point of it the point of the timer was to keep alchemy from being unbalanced they took it a step further and made it so that you couldn't just sit there and get the item while idle. It isn't literally or figuratively pointless because the whole damn point was to not benefit from alchemy in a way that would unbalance the game. If you chose to break the game by doing all of that stuff it wasted your time at the very least there should be an option to disable it. Anyway I've lost my ability to be civil about this this is becoming a vapid genre for a society of vapid people who are extremely impatient and afraid of challenge.

You just seem to ignore the fact that alchemy is meant to be a help to the player, and making them wait for no real reason is not conducive to being a help. It has nothing to do with being impatient. The issue comes from having to play the waiting game being tedious.

 

It's kinda like the Exp. Share in Pokémon. Ever since X/Y, it's provided experience to all members of your team, regardless of whether or not they participated in battle. It seems overpowering to some, but the game gave players the option to turn it off. In DQ8's case, players have the option to just not abuse the pot, and that's the way it should be.

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Obviously it's meant to be a help to the player and I haven't ignored that. The very real reason to have them wait for alchemy is that it acts like a cool down timer which preserves the games balance by limiting your alchemy usage. It's the same reason you can't use limit breaks every turn in FF7 ( oh but wait you can in the ps4 port!). It has everything to do with impatience because if you're spending a considerable amount of time waiting for alchemy then you're overusing it. In DQ VIII's case there should have been an option to not have the instant alchemy altogether. I understand where you guys are coming from but this is unbalancing and it's a problem. I'm honestly about to give up on the whole damn genre because all of these "quality of life" features are ruining it. Dragon Quest I guess at least has the distinction of being one of the first JRPGs out there and one of the last to become trashy.

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It's not unbalancing at all, and you want to know why? Because whether or not you forced to wait, if you go through the trouble of finding the ingredients you need for various items pretty strong for that point in the game, you are "overusing" it. However, why punish someone who wants to do that? That's not the best design philosophy at all.

 

Quality of life improvements are just that; improvements to the experience that makes your life easier. You wanna know how the alchemy pot is balanced? Ingredient acquisition. On any casual run, you likely won't have the tools to make really good stuff until later on, unless you're lucky. Take the White Shield. You can make it as early as getting to Pickham, but to do so then requires mindless casino grinding. Getting a Fur Poncho also requires you to grind on Goreillas, because Magic Beast Hides are a rare thing.

 

That is proper balancing right there. You have to actively work for what you want, rather than being arbitrarily stopped by a timer that can be easily circumvented with Holy Water and time spent in the Farebury region. Grinding up what you actually need? Nah, no easy way around that.

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Quality of life improvements are just that; improvements to the experience that makes your life easier.

 

But taken to an extreme like this they aren't improvements.Why not just cut out all the bullshit with basketball and just throw the ball through the hoop?

 

 

 

That's some really warped logic you're using there especially when you consider that my primary argument is that the healing items are what make instant alchemy unbalanced and herbs are widely and cheaply available throughout the game. Why punish somebody who just wants to enjoy the story? Why not make every enemy fall in one hit? Why not give them an accessory to completely avoid random encounters, after all you could beat the monsters if you wanted to it's just a pointless tedious waste of time right? Too extreme? How about a level up for each random encounter? By the reasoning you and glaceon are using that wouldn't be unbalancing at all either.

 

"That is proper balancing right there. You have to actively work for what you want, rather than being arbitrarily stopped by a timer that can be easily circumvented with Holy Water and time spent in the Farebury region. Grinding up what you actually need? Nah, no easy way around that"

 

Except that you would still have to expend the time it takes to make the items so that you don't have an excessive amount of powerful items that would be unbalanced. Really you guys are selectively ignoring my arguments because you don't want to hear it. The whole point is that it acts like a damn cool down timer it's not some arbitrary thing to slow your progress if this were a multiplayer game and they removed cooldown timers the reason this is a problem would be instantly obvious to people but since this is what folks think they want and the industry is in the mood to pander this is what you get. Have a nice hollow experience and many more to come maybe you'll eventually come to realise this. I'm sick of repeating myself so I'm just gonna call it a day and lament the death of my favorite hobby.

Edited by Don'tSellTheFlameSword

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And you call my logic warped.

 

The only person ignoring arguments is you, because you fail to see that your cooldown timer doesn't do squat but make you waste time. No game should ever have that kind of padding, because it adds nothing, especially when it doesn't actually stop you. That's not even getting into all the other games with crafting that came before DQ8. None of theirs took minutes to craft anything.

 

I'm done, though. It's cool if you prefer the old way, but don't act like the new way messes things up, because it doesn't.

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Boy, this discussion became rather heated.

 

I guess to give one more thought on alchemy from my own way of playing, the time it took in the original never bothered me until it came to late game stuff, like I mentioned before with the Timbrels. If I ever wanted to make special medicine or a healing item once I had the pot, I'd usually throw the ingredients in as I wandered around town. A minute or so later it would be done, then I'd do it again if I felt like it.

 

With armour and weapons, I would save those until I got out into the field or knew I would be in one of the bigger towns. You kill a lot of time running around talking to everyone, checking for items in pots and the like, and save my game. It would kill time pretty quickly when you do the usually routine. If I'm out in the field, it's to look for the overworld chest or monsters, which again would help kill time quickly as you look for them or head to their location if you know where they are.

 

I guess, to sum up the above, the timer never bothered me or really crossed my mind in my PS2 playthroughs because I worked them into my usual Dragon Quest playing routine pretty easily. I didn't really use the alchemy pot unless I wanted to upgrade my gear (if I felt like I needed to, that is), but when I did I found it kind of fun to throw everything in and then focus on exploring towns or the field then suddenly hear a "Ding!" to alert you the item was ready. With the world Dragon Quest VIII offers, it's always fun to explore and see the overworld might be hiding, or what the town and its people are like. Really the alchemy pot always became a second thought in my mind until that "Ding!" happened. Heck, there were times I might not have used the pot at all since I had all the equipment or items I needed for my party already, but it was always good to throw in some extra herbs and get something a little stronger while I kept on my way.

 

 

That's just my take on the PS2 alchemy system. I've liked having the instant in the 3DS version, and in some cases it's been helpful to have. I've probably used it as much as I did on the PS2 by this point of the game. I'm not going to argue over which way is right or wrong, what it means, and so on. But I thought I would share my feelings on the original. No matter which way you prefer, I think we can all agree on one thing: alchemy is a great way to get some great items.

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Boy, this discussion became rather heated.

 

I guess to give one more thought on alchemy from my own way of playing, the time it took in the original never bothered me until it came to late game stuff, like I mentioned before with the Timbrels. If I ever wanted to make special medicine or a healing item once I had the pot, I'd usually throw the ingredients in as I wandered around town. A minute or so later it would be done, then I'd do it again if I felt like it.

 

With armour and weapons, I would save those until I got out into the field or knew I would be in one of the bigger towns. You kill a lot of time running around talking to everyone, checking for items in pots and the like, and save my game. It would kill time pretty quickly when you do the usually routine. If I'm out in the field, it's to look for the overworld chest or monsters, which again would help kill time quickly as you look for them or head to their location if you know where they are.

 

I guess, to sum up the above, the timer never bothered me or really crossed my mind in my PS2 playthroughs because I worked them into my usual Dragon Quest playing routine pretty easily. I didn't really use the alchemy pot unless I wanted to upgrade my gear (if I felt like I needed to, that is), but when I did I found it kind of fun to throw everything in and then focus on exploring towns or the field then suddenly hear a "Ding!" to alert you the item was ready. With the world Dragon Quest VIII offers, it's always fun to explore and see the overworld might be hiding, or what the town and its people are like. Really the alchemy pot always became a second thought in my mind until that "Ding!" happened. Heck, there were times I might not have used the pot at all since I had all the equipment or items I needed for my party already, but it was always good to throw in some extra herbs and get something a little stronger while I kept on my way.

 

 

That's just my take on the PS2 alchemy system. I've liked having the instant in the 3DS version, and in some cases it's been helpful to have. I've probably used it as much as I did on the PS2 by this point of the game. I'm not going to argue over which way is right or wrong, what it means, and so on. But I thought I would share my feelings on the original. No matter which way you prefer, I think we can all agree on one thing: alchemy is a great way to get some great items.

I can't agree. Honestly, I don't like crafting in games. Even in Minecraft I only play Survival with friends because friends, and play Creative mode if I just want to build. Crafting is boring, and the Alchemy Pot is one reason why I never got far into the PS2 version of DQVIII (though the biggest reason was the load times). Instant alchemy has made the game much more fun for me, though I'd still prefer to just buy or find items rather than crafting them.

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If you don't like crafting why did you get Dragon Quest Buidlers then? AND why have you used alchemy in DQVIII then, eh?!?!?!?!?!??!

 

It's okay, your secret love for crafting in one way or another is save with us. :P

Edited by YangustheLegendaryBandit

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Erdrick, why no love for crafting?

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Hey Sword, Glaceon and Gooie I just got a decent night's sleep. I had gotten about 12 hours over the span of five days before that which was a major contributing factor to me being such a jerk. Anyway I just wanted to say that while I really don't care for the change due to the reasons I stated I'm sorry for acting like such a jerk to you guys. Sleep deprivation blew things way out of proportion.

Edited by Don'tSellTheFlameSword
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The instant Alchemy is a benefit for me now because when I play, I only get to play for 10-15 minutes at a time, so I don't want to waste those sessions on waiting for something to finish cooking. I don't have the time I did 12 years ago when this game came out.

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I bought Dragon Quest Builders to support the series, and it was fun for a bit, but I got bored of resource gathering. Never finished chapter two. I nice give it another shot when I get a new PS4, but it's just not worth the effort in the vita version. The controls are so uncomfortable on the vita, and the framerate is pretty unstable.

 

Resource gathering is the problem with crafting systems. I like being able to pop some herbs into the alchemy pot to make strong medicines, for example, because I can buy herbs from a shop. What I don't like it's grinding or searching for ingredients for a long time to make a single item, no matter how powerful that item ends up being.

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Hey Sword, Glaceon and Gooie I just got a decent night's sleep. I had gotten about 12 hours over the span of five days before that which was a major contributing factor to me being such a jerk. Anyway I just wanted to say that while I really don't care for the change due to the reasons I stated I'm sorry for acting like such a jerk to you guys. Sleep deprivation blew things way out of proportion.

Water under the bridge, man. No worries. At least you're well rested now.

Resource gathering is the problem with crafting systems. I like being able to pop some herbs into the alchemy pot to make strong medicines, for example, because I can buy herbs from a shop. What I don't like it's grinding or searching for ingredients for a long time to make a single item, no matter how powerful that item ends up being.

Ah, I see. I don't mind it much because it gets the player exploring the world, although I love the recipes that require items I can buy at a shop.

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Hey Sword, Glaceon and Gooie I just got a decent night's sleep. I had gotten about 12 hours over the span of five days before that which was a major contributing factor to me being such a jerk. Anyway I just wanted to say that while I really don't care for the change due to the reasons I stated I'm sorry for acting like such a jerk to you guys. Sleep deprivation blew things way out of proportion.

Don't beat yourself up over it, over and done now.

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