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Nintendo's localizations.


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Well, okay. I just wanted to provide some information. If you don't care, that's fine. I just don't want to be accused of tearing apart some community. All I wanted was provide some info that you wouldn't find reported on sites like Polygon, Kotaku, etc. about this localization. I know that I prefer to play games as the original creators intended, with all the context, lore and little character subtleties in tact. I love that stuff and it's a shame when it gets lost because of some bad localization.

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Good localization: Everyone enjoys the game.   Bad localization: People that don't care enjoy the game. People that do care enjoy it less.    But with people actually defending changes like "..

I didn't say it would be my last post, just the last big one. To address your last comment, I would have bought the game regardless of what they did or did not cut. Gameplay is important but so is sto

I disagree. You can argue that it was "just" amplified, and I'll argue that it destroyed the rest of her character. She isn't shy anymore. Shy isn't soft spoken anymore. She's just this muscle packed

Well, okay. I just wanted to provide some information. If you don't care, that's fine. I just don't want to be accused of tearing apart some community. All I wanted was provide some info that you wouldn't find reported on sites like Polygon, Kotaku, etc. about this localization. I know that I prefer to play games as the original creators intended, with all the context, lore and little character subtleties in tact. I love that stuff and it's a shame when it gets lost because of some bad localization.

 

You don't have to worry about that. This is definitely a really touchy subject for a lot of people, as you've probably seen on many sites. You've shown a lot of good data on the loss of content from the different version.

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I wasn't being serious about us being torn apart. It was a joke mainly based on how heated some of these discussions get.

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because I play Fire Emblem for it's story and it's gameplay, and both remain perfectly intact and that's good enough for me.

...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

Let's be friends.

 

Dive into my brine.

 

RRRGRRR

 

ARF ARF

 

RGRHRHH

 

WAG WAG

 

SNIFF WAG

 

You've growed up!

 

I'm know that.

 

Very intact. The Japanese one sounds great.

 

 

No, but Varuna is really passionate about the subject, and him and I, at least were starting to veer off course with the debate, so it's better to just stop while we're ahead. I don't hold any of it against him.

What do you have to even hold against me?

 

You were veering off course because you were never on-topic in the first place, evident by the fact that you even said you had no idea what the topic was about.

 

 

 

You don't have to worry about that. This is definitely a really touchy subject for a lot of people, as you've probably seen on many sites. You've shown a lot of good data on the loss of content from the different version.
What's touchy about it? The only way it can be "touchy" is if you have some stake in Nintendo and can't bare to hear them get "defamed".

 

 

Stop. I'm done. I'm not arguing with you anymore. You're just pointing fingers now.

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Maybe if you Team Magma hadn't woken you up we wouldn't have any heat, Yangus.

Someone implement a randomizer mod to change my ability from Drought to something else.

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This topic is tearing (some of us) apart.

The only people being torn apart right now is Varuna and Calem, a guy who joined just to argue about this. I and Bururian and you and SlimeVagrant couldn't care less.

 

Me and you and the others can play games just fine so long as we're having fun. In fact, I disappeared from this topic for a bit because I was busy playing Birthright! I can enjoy playing a game without worrying if I was getting the exact same 1:1 experience the Japanese got, because I play Fire Emblem for it's story and it's gameplay, and both remain perfectly intact and that's good enough for me.

I'm 100% with you on this, eal. It's not that I don't get where Calem and Varuna and others are coming from, it's just that I don't care about games like that. I take them for what they are, not for what's missing. If it makes me a casual gamer, so be it. I derive pleasure from playing games such as Joker 2 vanilla version, so there it is. Nothing right or wrong going on here, just opinions.
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I love the DQM games, even though I think the originals are better than Joker/Joker2. Joker isn't really a game with heavy lore or text, unlike Fire Emblem which is known for it's complicated character relations and interaction. Fire Emblem build up characters so that if the player loses them in battle, he actually feels the loss of a valued member of his team and not just some random footsoldier. That's a big difference. If the localization removed a lot of their personality, or changed it, that is actually a big deal for fans of these games.

 

I respect your opinion though. Some (or many) don't care about this and just skip the text and don't care about this at all. For the sake of fans that actually care though, why not give them that? They want all this dialog. For them, it's gone forever, for someone that doesn't care much, they can still skip it, even if they'd have to press X a few more times.

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I don't even like fire emblem, I haven't played any of the 3DS games, I've only played one for the GBA and one for the GCN and didn't like either. So it's really hard for me to care too much about this.

 

Thing is I don't even disagree with a lot of what Varuna is saying. I disagree with how he said it, he came off very immature a lot of the time, but I personally do think a lot of the changes made were unnecessary, especially the ones Calem brought up, which I was unaware of at the time.

 

But I can't help but think of the rest of the people enjoying fire emblem games in America that might be put off by some of the elements of Japanese culture in the original version. If Nintendo is going to sell the game here, some changes are important to increase sales so that they have incentive to even give America the game at all. It's not hard to imagine the game becoming like Dragon Quest, with western fans begging to even see a local version of the next game in their favorite series. Unfortunately it's unrealistic to expect to be able to enjoy Japanese games the exact way they were initially intended without learning both the Japanese culture and language.

 

Sorry if my thoughts here come off confusing or conflicting (I was never good at explaining my thoughts well). I guess all I'm trying to say is, they did make a lot of unnecessary changes, but it's unrealistic to expect them to make no changes.

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This topic is tearing (some of us) apart.

 

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Hahaha, what a story, Yangus.

 

But in all seriousness, while I definitely see the problem with some of these, as long as it doesn't majorly affect my enjoyment of the game, I don't really mind it.

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some changes are important to increase sales so that they have incentive to even give America the game at all.

Fire Emblem: Awakening actually cemented this franchise in the west and made sure that future games will be ported as well. It was a big success and I think it sold more in NA alone than Japan (I could look up numbers if you really want to).

That said, a games success in the first few weeks after release isn't due to how good the game actually is. It's all about hype, marketing and the reputation of it's predecessor. Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2 are a great example.

 

Dragon Age: Origins was the rebirth of cRPGs. I think it was highly anticipated and sold very well, establishing a completely new fanbase of these kind of games (This is the equivalent to Fire Emblem: Awakening).

Then they started to hype up Dragon Age 2 and made a huge marketing campaign for it. The game wasn't that good though, but from this chart you can tell that it sold like hot cakes in the first week. You can also see that the sales declined rather fast after word of mouth spread and people realized it's not really a good game. (You can't compare this to FE:F though, since FE:F is, despite butchered localization, still a great game).

 

S0Sm0Mv.jpg

 

There is no doubt that future Fire Emblem games will come to the west. I just hope that they hire a different studio for the localization though.

 

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I don't even think Nintendo is entirely in the right either. I'm aware of what they did and did not take out. But I really don't care. Most of their changes were charming in their own ways honestly. I don't think any of us got into games for the authentic experience or anything.

 

No one made a fuss about Awakening until Tharja's ass got covered up, but Awakening's localization had a few tweaks of its own. Henry was made into one sadistic mother effer in the American version, just to give an example. No one cried tears for Freedom Wars' losing a key feature for no given reason because it was a Vita game and no one cares about the Vita. People used to think highly of Treehouse until all this. Now they're a sub-par localization company full of evil SJWs.

 

Fates is a good game and I've had a lot more fun playing it then debating about what I did and didn't get on this thread.

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some changes are important to increase sales so that they have incentive to even give America the game at all.

Fire Emblem: Awakening actually cemented this franchise in the west and made sure that future games will be ported as well. It was a big success and I think it sold more in NA alone than Japan (I could look up numbers if you really want to).

That said, a games success in the first few weeks after release isn't due to how good the game actually is. It's all about hype, marketing and the reputation of it's predecessor. Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2 are a great example.

 

Dragon Age: Origins was the rebirth of cRPGs. I think it was highly anticipated and sold very well, establishing a completely new fanbase of these kind of games (This is the equivalent to Fire Emblem: Awakening).

Then they started to hype up Dragon Age 2 and made a huge marketing campaign for it. The game wasn't that good though, but from this chart you can tell that it sold like hot cakes in the first week. You can also see that the sales declined rather fast after word of mouth spread and people realized it's not really a good game. (You can't compare this to FE:F though, since FE:F is, despite butchered localization, still a great game).

 

S0Sm0Mv.jpg

 

There is no doubt that future Fire Emblem games will come to the west. I just hope that they hire a different studio for the localization though.

 

 

 

Ah yes I am very familiar with Dragon Age, so I know what you're talking about there.

I also agree that fire emblem could probably benefit from a different localization sudio.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I love the DQM games, even though I think the originals are better than Joker/Joker2. Joker isn't really a game with heavy lore or text
He was referring to America not getting the complete version of Joker 2 when it came outside of Japan.

 

In Japan, about a year after its release, they released "Joker 2 Professional", which had... I think over 100 more monsters? I can't remember.

This was released, mind you, before they even announced Joker 2 coming to America. When they did announce it and release it, we didn't get Joker 2 Professional for some reason, but the "base" version.

 

This is frequently a cause of contention from Joker fans due to English speakers getting unnecessarily shafted.

 

 

Thing is I don't even disagree with a lot of what Varuna is saying. I disagree with how he said it, he came off very immature a lot of the time
I'm not perfect.

I also do have a personal bias to this subject because I have worked in localization and it pains me to see billion dollar companies literally produce trash when I had to bust my butt to get noticed, and eventually, hired.

 

Attack the argument, not the person.

That being said, I don't bite. If you (and this goes to anyone) think I have a point but I'm conveying it poorly, please tell me.

 

 

But I can't help but think of the rest of the people enjoying fire emblem games in America that might be put off by some of the elements of Japanese culture in the original version. If Nintendo is going to sell the game here, some changes are important to increase sales so that they have incentive to even give America the game at all. It's not hard to imagine the game becoming like Dragon Quest, with western fans begging to even see a local version of the next game in their favorite series. Unfortunately it's unrealistic to expect to be able to enjoy Japanese games the exact way they were initially intended without learning both the Japanese culture and language.
See, this is a really poor argument.

 

Why are they buying Japanese games if all they want is something to cater to their hypothetical closed-mindedness?

 

Dragon Quest is a victim of no marketing. Not bad marketing. But... no marketing.

 

However...

Look at DQ8. It sold really good.

Look at DQ9. It sold huge.

The difference for those two titles? Great marketing. Especially significant for DQ9 which is just DQ3 with the equipment and alchemy systems of DQ8. It definitely doesn't have as much of a "modern" feel as DQ8. So you can't say "well, it's not trying to feel classic-y", because it very much was.

 

Which is also what Nintendo likes to do. They don't really talk about or promote their big releases anymore. Xenoblade Chronicles X was supposed to be a huge release of 2015. For almost six months prior to its English release, Nintendo didn't talk about or promote it whatsoever.

 

 

I'm confused then. What was the big Dragon Quest release that went without promotion? If 9 sold so well then what happened to 10?

Edited by SlimeVagrant
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This topic is tearing (some of us) apart.

The only people being torn apart right now is Varuna and Calem, a guy who joined just to argue about this. I and Bururian and you and SlimeVagrant couldn't care less.

 

Me and you and the others can play games just fine so long as we're having fun. In fact, I disappeared from this topic for a bit because I was busy playing Birthright! I can enjoy playing a game without worrying if I was getting the exact same 1:1 experience the Japanese got, because I play Fire Emblem for it's story and it's gameplay, and both remain perfectly intact and that's good enough for me.

I'm 100% with you on this, eal. It's not that I don't get where Calem and Varuna and others are coming from, it's just that I don't care about games like that. I take them for what they are, not for what's missing. If it makes me a casual gamer, so be it. I derive pleasure from playing games such as Joker 2 vanilla version, so there it is. Nothing right or wrong going on here, just opinions.

 

 

First off, Eal and Platty hit it on the head. I can understand a bit of anger, but all of this?

 

Nobody is catering to "social justice" or any kind of agenda. Nintendo is simply trying to make the game culturally acceptable. It arguably could be said the same thing was done with the games we played growing up.

 

But you know what guys? I love Earthbound. It was one of my first real RPGs I played. I didn't notice they changed the bar in Fourside into a coffee shop, I was just figuring out why that one door wouldn't open. I love Chrono Trigger. I made Chrono drink so much soda he should've $#!&ing popped. 

 

I personally don't own a copy of Fates. I can't really get into the deep discussion on it barring news stories and wikis. But I see it like this.

 

It's reasonable to say something about extreme dialog changes. That one conversation with all the "..."s? I can't go into it. I have never played Fates. If they're both mute, then it makes sense, but whatever. It's reasonable to notice that an entire class is changed for cultural appropriation (but that was likely SE's doing). Should've just had the cowboy class an addition instead of a replacement.

 

But people $#!&@ing about costume changes where they add a bit of clothing to female (and male) characters? People going OFF about a "boob slider"? God, think about how that sounds? How do you tell your wife or girlfriend (or the reverse) "Man! I'm so mad at Nintendo, they took out the boob slider for Xenoblade Chronicles X in the Western release! I am so mad! Grr!" Did Skyrim have one? No. For some reason, the Japanese developers thought it'd be OK to put that little tidbit in. But you want to mess with a 13-year old's boobs? 

 

Go to jail you creepy $#!&. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. 

 

 

I think that is where my stance is on this. Nintendo might not be right, but they aren't wrong either. Same for any other company. Some of them (Looking at you Atlus!) pushes the rating to the limit, others just localize it differently. I think some people are picking the wrong things to complain about. Costumes (except for SE's stupid decision on Hawkeye) or "boob sliders"? Seriously. Creepy. But genuine changes that should be addressed back to fans at least? Yes. Go off about them.

 

Once again though, and I said this earlier... Remember that some games are being targeted to a specific audience. The 3DS itself? I'm going to be honest here, how many working adults do you see pulling out DSs in public? The 3DS is a system marketed to children. Just as the Gameboy was back in the day.

 

We have the freedom (obviously) and the choice to play these games, either due to nostalgia or want. But we're playing games made for Japanese teenagers, especially with something like this. A company GRACIOUSLY dumped good money into localizing it, and possibly adding content like English voice acting or something similar. I'm not saying "DON'T COMPLAIN GUYS WERE LUCKY GHEEZE". But what I am saying is this.

 

Don't be a creep. Be an adult. Notice the right things about all of this. To be perfectly honest, we don't know what we're playing in the first place technically. We go by a professional (or fan) localization, and we have to simply just roll with the punches. If this makes me a casual gamer, than whatever. I enjoy casually playing a game. I don't go into why there isn't a boob slider, or why some relationships go "Friendzone". 

 

I just play the $#!&ing game, and I enjoy it when I do.

 

Shouldn't you all do the same?

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Joker 2 doesn't really feel like a major release to me, being a spinoff and all. I can understand the rest, but I definitely remember at least some promotion of Dragon Quest 6 though. I was just trying to get into the DQ main series at the time, after playing the heck out of rocket slime and Joker 1, and I remember being very confused as to why DQ6 was coming out after DQ9, and debating on whether to just get 9 or wait for 6 to come out.

 

Anyway this is all off topic, I wasn't trying to suggest that Fire Emblem isn't being promoted well by Nintendo, because it is. I mean Fire Emblem has as many smash bros characters as Legend of Zelda (even more if you count LInk/Toon Link or Zelda/Sheik as the same character). I'm saying that they've got a lot of people's attention and now are trying to appeal to everyone as possible because it seems like the kind of very Japanese style game that doesn't usually sell well out here, and they need to keep everyone coming back.

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Joker 2 doesn't really feel like a major release to me, being a spinoff and all. I can understand the rest, but I definitely remember at least some promotion of Dragon Quest 6 though. I was just trying to get into the DQ main series at the time, after playing the heck out of rocket slime and Joker 1, and I remember being very confused as to why DQ6 was coming out after DQ9, and debating on whether to just get 9 or wait for 6 to come out.

 

Anyway this is all off topic, I wasn't trying to suggest that Fire Emblem isn't being promoted well by Nintendo, because it is. I mean Fire Emblem has as many smash bros characters as Legend of Zelda (even more if you count LInk/Toon Link or Zelda/Sheik as the same character). I'm saying that they've got a lot of people's attention and now are trying to appeal to everyone as possible because it seems like the kind of very Japanese style game that doesn't usually sell well out here, and they need to keep everyone coming back.

 

Fates is selling well, is it not?

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@Mattcraft 

 

Have you seen my post on page 2? If you didn't, can I ask you to go back and look through it please? I gave explicit examples of what the current issue is about. Please make sure to watch the Elfie video as well. 

 

 

Edit: I'll just post the video again here, because it's such an important example of a personality change.

 

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It is, it was also marketed very well.

Edit: was replying to Matt, Thread lagged for me.

Edited by SlimeVagrant
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Going back to what you were saying, SlimeVagrant, here's an interesting tidbit for you: Awakening saved Fire Emblem. Fire Emblem has been a mainstay in Japan since the NES but it wasn't particularly popular, so Intelligent Systems decided to put everything they've ever wanted to do into Fire Emblem Awakening. Don't know if they ever did get everything in there, but I know having children in Fire Emblem was certainly on their bucket list. Ironically, the stuff they put in there made it a hit in Japan and in America, a country that also wasn't in love with Fire Emblem.

 

Naturally, they did a lot of the same things again for Fates and shoved in even more otaku pandering to hold onto their new audience. Some of that Awakening DLC proves as much. That hot springs DLC wasn't for the Fire Emblem faithful that love military drama and intrigue. A good minute of dialogue is a woman getting Tharja into a bikini and talking about her "famous" curves. They even sold a figure of her with he ass in the air. Intelligent Systems seems to have a thing for asses, honestly. I've noticed a lot of male and female characters have asses sticking out in battle and a lot of Awakening's concept art had character's point their asses in your direction.

 

It looks like they've tried to balance it out by giving Camilla, Charlotte, and Kagero big boobs, and Camilla's chest features prominently in a few cutscenes too. Corrin runs into them and his head bounces off them with a boing sound at one point. You think I'm kidding, but I'm not. I swear I'm not. There looks to be some boob physics in the petting minigame too.

 

...

 

I'm sorry, what were we talking about?

Edited by eal
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Fates is selling well, is it not?

Please read:

 

Fire Emblem: Awakening actually cemented this franchise in the west and made sure that future games will be ported as well. It was a big success and I think it sold more in NA alone than Japan (I could look up numbers if you really want to).

That said, a games success in the first few weeks after release isn't due to how good the game actually is. It's all about hype, marketing and the reputation of it's predecessor. Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2 are a great example.

 

Dragon Age: Origins was the rebirth of cRPGs. I think it was highly anticipated and sold very well, establishing a completely new fanbase of these kind of games (This is the equivalent to Fire Emblem: Awakening).

Then they started to hype up Dragon Age 2 and made a huge marketing campaign for it. The game wasn't that good though, but from this chart you can tell that it sold like hot cakes in the first week. You can also see that the sales declined rather fast after word of mouth spread and people realized it's not really a good game. (You can't compare this to FE:F though, since FE:F is, despite butchered localization, still a great game).

 

S0Sm0Mv.jpg

 

There is no doubt that future Fire Emblem games will come to the west. I just hope that they hire a different studio for the localization though.

Fire Emblem Fates success rides on it's predecessor.

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I love the DQM games, even though I think the originals are better than Joker/Joker2. Joker isn't really a game with heavy lore or text

He was referring to America not getting the complete version of Joker 2 when it came outside of Japan.

 

In Japan, about a year after its release, they released "Joker 2 Professional", which had... I think over 100 more monsters? I can't remember.

This was released, mind you, before they even announced Joker 2 coming to America. When they did announce it and release it, we didn't get Joker 2 Professional for some reason, but the "base" version.

 

This is frequently a cause of contention from Joker fans due to English speakers getting unnecessarily shafted.

 

 

 

Bringing up Joker 2 Pro is an interesting point. As you may know, Souimet [i think that's how you spell it], did a rom hack translation of pro, translating monster and skill names to some extent. Some things were only partly translated, some things, like most dialogue was not. A "bad translation". Yet i'm sure all of us who worked through it enjoyed it.

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Going back to what you were saying, SlimeVagrant, here's an interesting tidbit for you: Awakening saved Fire Emblem. Fire Emblem has been a mainstay in Japan since the NES but it wasn't particularly popular, so Intelligent Systems decided to put everything they've ever wanted to do into Fire Emblem Awakening. Don't know if they ever did get everything in there, but I know having children in Fire Emblem was certainly on their bucket list. Ironically, the stuff they put in there made it a hit in Japan and in America, a country that also wasn't in love with Fire Emblem.

 

Naturally, they did a lot of the same things again for Fates and shoved in even more otaku pandering to hold onto their new audience. Some of that Awakening DLC proves as much. That hot springs DLC wasn't for the Fire Emblem faithful that love military drama and intrigue A good minute of dialogue is a woman getting Tharja into a bikini and talking about her "famous" curves. They even sold a figure of her with he ass in the air. Intelligent Systems seems to have a thing for asses, honestly. I've noticed a lot of male and female characters have asses sticking out in battle and a lot of Awakening's concept art had character's point their asses in your direction.

 

...

 

I'm sorry, what were we talking about?

 

lol Yeah I've heard a lot of good things about Fire Emblem since Awakening came out. I've been considering giving the series another go since then. Like I said earlier I've only played the gba and gcn games and didn't like either of them. Those games kind of put me off the series though and so I haven't tried the 3DS games yet, because I have no idea how they are in comparison.

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The moralizing in this topic has gotten so over the top. If the people against censorship are akin to creepy pedophiles, than the people in favor of it must be intolerant homophobes for not caring about this issue.

 

Or maybe people's opinions on this say nothing about their personal beliefs and the moralizing should just be dropped now?

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