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Nintendo's localizations.


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At this point, you might as well learn Japanese and play it in its native language, if you really don't want to miss anything.

 

It sounds like this has gone way past the argument and you're mad at the Japanese for not giving you exactly what you wanted.

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Good localization: Everyone enjoys the game.   Bad localization: People that don't care enjoy the game. People that do care enjoy it less.    But with people actually defending changes like "..

I didn't say it would be my last post, just the last big one. To address your last comment, I would have bought the game regardless of what they did or did not cut. Gameplay is important but so is sto

I disagree. You can argue that it was "just" amplified, and I'll argue that it destroyed the rest of her character. She isn't shy anymore. Shy isn't soft spoken anymore. She's just this muscle packed

Varuna, you sound like the most unhappy person ever. You want a 1:1 translation and it's not going to happen.

 

You're also picking out only specific things that many people are saying in the posts to deconstruct them.

 

How about they make a different game instead of radically altering an existing one for a market that it wasn't meant for?

 

Culturization is the worst thing to ever happen to localizations.These are examples of why things are culturally localized. Those videos are very much aimed at an Otaku audience, it won't really work the same here you have to make the changes for it.

 

 

So by this logic, they should just not release any Japanese games here.

 

Why release it for a market it wasn't meant for?

 

A 1:1 translation can still happen depending on who does the localization.  Your right though.  Even if Nintendo kept to the spirit of the original game, there would still be changes.  I am not concern about the localization changes its the cut content that is a bigger issue to me.

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It's really simple guys: if you bought the new Fire Emblem or will buy Bravely Second after a botched localization job with substantial content cut, you are part of the problem you claim to hate so much. That is what all these debates really boil down to. Don't give them your money, it's the only thing you can do that matters whatsoever. 

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At this point, you might as well learn Japanese and play it in its native language, if you really don't want to miss anything.

 

It sounds like this has gone way past the argument and you're mad at the Japanese for not giving you exactly what you wanted.

 

What has this got to do with Japan?  Its Nintendo of America that are making the changes. 

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At this point, you might as well learn Japanese and play it in its native language, if you really don't want to miss anything.

 

It sounds like this has gone way past the argument and you're mad at the Japanese for not giving you exactly what you wanted.

 

What has this got to do with Japan?  Its Nintendo of America that are making the changes. 

 

 

 

"Oh, you dumb Americans can't understand our sophisticated culture. You can buy our games which gives us money, but you'll never understand us!"

 

 

In the end, NoA can propose changes, but NoJ has to approve said changes. I don't believe they have final say.

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It's really simple guys: if you bought the new Fire Emblem or will buy Bravely Second after a botched localization job with substantial content cut, you are part of the problem you claim to hate so much. That is what all these debates really boil down to. Don't give them your money, it's the only thing you can do that matters whatsoever. 

 

I'm not so sure about that, I kind of feel that would send the wrong message.

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In the end, NoA can propose changes, but NoJ has to approve said changes. I don't believe they have final say.

 

I highly doubt that Nintendo of Japan ticks of every single change, especially not when the ones responsible at Nintendo of America tell them that it's necessary due to cultural differences. 

 

Senran Kagura Burst, I believe it was Burst, got a T rating. Do you know that franchise? Boobs and lewds galore.

So did Fire Emblem: Fates. So why the cuts? Certainly not to appease the ESRB for a younger rating to increase the chance of people buying the game.

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Yes, it would've been "easily" Rated T because nothing bad went on.

There's no private parts (exposed breasts count as a private part) showing.

There's no overt gore (yes, you kill people, no, you don't see any disemboweled corpses).

There's no overly sexual talk using vulgarities to prefer to... parts.

 

What's Rated M about it? Implied "touching"? Sorry, you need more than that for an M rating.

 

You'd probably be very surprised to know what you can find in that rating...

 

Well, like I said, I haven't played the game (Especially the Japanese version!), but judging by some of the cut content, assumedly to knock the rating down well within the "T" rating, treehouse felt the need to tone down the game. The whole "drugging the gay away" lines of dialogue was removed, the petting mini-game was removed, and some skimpy-esque clothing was altered, for instance. The other other dialogue changes were more cultural and not overtly sexual, right? Those changes weren't to drop the game down a rating, I reckon, but more to make it more "american". At any rate, the drug/homosexual dialogue thing is soooo out of the realm of "suggestive themes", and firmly into sexual content. There is no way you can look at it and think, "oh yeah, I can see how this might be suggestive! It can go either way." It is 100% sexual. It's about a homosexual lady "getting past" that the main character isn't part of her sexual preference, and her falling in love with him. I can understand how it's a story-telling technique, and it's a shame that we can't explore those types of scenerios in our fantasy games, but a situation like that right now, in this culture, it just doesn't fly. There would be so much more backlash if it was kept in, for more powerful sources than outraged fans, that it doesn't make sense for Nintendo to keep it in and still plant a "T" rating on the game. Likewise, the "implied touching" petting mini-game has two characters alone in a room, gettin' hot and bothered, while (allegedly) saying things like:

 

  • Camilla: “The way you’re using your hand feels so good. Very skillful.â€
  • Lazwald: “I also want to touch you, will you come closer?â€
  • Takumi: “You can touch me wherever I like, but don’t say I didn’t warn you…â€
  • Joker: “We can’t … it’ll have to wait for tonight.â€
  • Camilla: “When you do it this much, it’s embarrassing…†[1]

-is totally sexual! Anyone who's 12+ would play this and totally understand it's two people being all sexy! Which is totally cool, if that's in the game it's in the game, wouldn't stop me from playing it, but it's not T for teen. Not by the ESRB standards, no way. The last point, the costumes that were changed, those ones are pretty obvious, too. Showing a little less skin. I'm not sure if the ESRB would have reacted negatively or not to that, but I'm sure Treehouse was just erring on the side on caution for that one, if nothing else.

 

It's our ESRB that everyone should be getting mad at. If you want games like this to come out in NA, with content intact, the ESRB would have to become more lax. It makes no business sense for a company to release a game that wouldn't be able to be sold to a large user base by keeping it M rated. I still contend that, from what I've seen, the uncensored FE games would have landed in the M category, and if they had, Nintendo would have lost a lot of revenue on sales due to the decreased user-base.

 

[1] Translations according to http://nintendonews.com/news/3ds/fire-emblem-fates-dialogue-stripping-touching/. I'm not much for translating Japanese so I'm taking this website at it's word :P

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@Erdricky

 

Did you see my long winded post on page 2? I gave some clear examples of what kind of dialog they changed. There was nothing that wouldn't have been accepted in america. Please take a look.

 

Also again, the ESRB rated Senran Kagura: Burst with T. There was no chance they'd have rated Fire Emblem: Fates as M, not even with the petting minigame included if they rated a Senran Kagura game as T.

 

Edit: But again, the cut petting minigame doesn't bother me that much. It's the changed character personalities and dialogs that bother me much more.

Edited by Calem
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It's rational if you're trying to sell the game. You don't want your customers to be put off by things that are taboo in their culture. Nintendo isn't thinking about all the other things that already appeal to America, they're trying to sell their game.
So we should immediately cave in to and cater to the every whim of people who have the emotional fragility of tissue paper? Sorry, no.

 

Anyone can be offended by anything. That's not a justification for censorship.

 

 

At this point, you might as well learn Japanese and play it in its native language, if you really don't want to miss anything.

 

It sounds like this has gone way past the argument and you're mad at the Japanese for not giving you exactly what you wanted.

The most ridiculous thing I've seen yet.

Why are you in full-force with the pro-Nintendo defense? Did you just buy Nintendo stocks, or something?

 

Reminds me of the people who will say "just quit who cares what you have to say" if someone complains about something in an online game. Yes, because quitting will really help. </sarcasm>

 

 

I'm not. You're just so anti-Whatever this argument actually is, that I'm just trying to provide some counter argument. 

I'm not going to anymore since you're starting to attack my character. 

Edited by Bururian
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Oh? So the sexuality drug changing thing was some sort of mistranslated? Oh never-mind, then, lol. Funny how your points, Calem, didn't come up on any journalistic-type places! Probably a good thing #Torrentialdownpour is showing the other side. If that's the case then the situation is much more whack than I thought. 

Edited by Erdricky
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I can probably dig up some smaller site like nichegamer and techraptor that reported about this. Yes, the big sites were only interested in the controversy, because that drives clicks. They aren't interested in truth most of the time and they certainly don't want to admit their mistakes. As said, they took a tumblr blog post and spread it, without any verification of the content. This happens all the time. 

Edited by Calem
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Just saw your post, Calem! I type slow and this thread is moving faster than any I've seen on the Den in a long time, haha. I'm going to try and keep my mind more open to the #TD side now. I still don't quite understand all the hub-ub, but I respect there's a lot going on. I think I'm going to hold back and read more information you all post before voicing such a mal-formed opinion again :P

Edited by Erdricky
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I'm not. You're just so anti-Whatever this argument actually is, that I'm just trying to provide some counter argument.

 

I'm not going to anymore since you're starting to attack my character.

Hmm...

 

 

Varuna, you sound like the most unhappy person ever. You want a 1:1 translation and it's not going to happen.

 

It sounds like this has gone way past the argument and you're mad at the Japanese for not giving you exactly what you wanted.

 

Yeah, because you weren't attacking my character at all. You were also telling me what I wanted (incorrectly) in a condescending manner to trivialize what I was saying.

 

You have been adamantly defending Nintendo and I'm not sure why.

 

 

 

Ok. If you're convinced, I can't stop you. 

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This topic is tearing (some of us) apart.

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Just saw the Senran Kagura BURST game. That is funny! I'm totally surprised. I would have thought for sure that game would have been rated higher, lol. Funny that the 3DS version is the only one which is rated T. Would have figured it be the other way around. Was there any changes done to 3DS version between countries?

Edited by Erdricky
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One exception where value would trump excessive tampering for me personally would be if the international version of Fire Emblem Fates combined both versions into one product for $40.

 

Then NoA could legitimately tell us we were getting double the content for half the price and I would have probably picked it up. It would have been a really nice gesture. But these overpriced monetization schemes while playing these silly games with content? Even pushing an anti-gay agenda while using the "gay conversion" controversy as cover? As if people wouldn't notice?

 

Yeah, no thanks Ninty. Not interested.

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I'm not. You're just so anti-Whatever this argument actually is, that I'm just trying to provide some counter argument.

 

I'm not going to anymore since you're starting to attack my character.

Hmm...

 

 

Varuna, you sound like the most unhappy person ever. You want a 1:1 translation and it's not going to happen.

 

It sounds like this has gone way past the argument and you're mad at the Japanese for not giving you exactly what you wanted.

 

Yeah, because you weren't attacking my character at all. You were also telling me what I wanted (incorrectly) in a condescending manner to trivialize what I was saying.

 

You have been adamantly defending Nintendo and I'm not sure why.

 

 

Based on the wording it looks like he was telling you (correctly) how you were coming across, not telling you what you wanted

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If you guys are really interested in this topic and want more info to what was changed, here is an imgur album that documents a lot of the changes. It's not really sorted or gives much overall context, but please take a look. It's a ton of information, so don't get overwhelmed by it. Scroll through a few of the pics. Read them carefully and judge for yourself if these changes were necessary.

 

http://imgur.com/a/X2w49

 

Decide if they needed to be "localized" because the american audience wouldn't understand or even be offended by them otherwise. Also keep in mind that a lot of dialog was just removed. Completely. This is not good localization. This is why fans are mad at Treehouse. They love their lore and character heavy JRPGs.

 

I'll just post one more example as an eye catcher:

 

 

HllORVl.png

 

 

 

 

 

Damn, that's a huge pic. I apologize if you had to scroll past it without being interested in it. Is there some kind of formatting option to scale it down on this forum?

Edit: Quoting didn't help much. I'll remove it if you tell me to. Just wanted to give a clear example of how much dialog was removed.

Edit2: Thanks, spoilered. Much better.

Edited by Calem
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You could put it in spoiler code, wont scale the image down, but it will  at least make it easier to scroll past.

Edited by SlimeVagrant
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This topic is tearing (some of us) apart.

The only people being torn apart right now is Varuna and Calem, a guy who joined just to argue about this. I and Bururian and you and SlimeVagrant couldn't care less.

 

Me and you and the others can play games just fine so long as we're having fun. In fact, I disappeared from this topic for a bit because I was busy playing Birthright! I can enjoy playing a game without worrying if I was getting the exact same 1:1 experience the Japanese got, because I play Fire Emblem for it's story and it's gameplay, and both remain perfectly intact and that's good enough for me.

Edited by eal
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Huh, me? I didn't even have a discussion with Varuna?

 

No, but Varuna is really passionate about the subject, and him and I, at least were starting to veer off course with the debate, so it's better to just stop while we're ahead. I don't hold any of it against him.

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