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Matt's Rants - Censorship


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8 minutes ago, Brother Jaybird said:

Wait, we have one of those? I don't want to miss next year's!

We hold it on February 29th... but only on odd years

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SJW isn't Single Japanese Woman?   Mortamor & Fur would get a laugh out of this topic.

If people don't like all censored localizations or just certain kinds of censored content for whatever personal reasons ie artistic integrity, is there a reason certain people insist on telling them h

I was actually thinking about that Eal, but thanks for clarifying that you are just as bad as those people you despise. Up, up and away you go!   The key difference however, is that anti-censorship

18 minutes ago, eal said:

I’ll never forget all those randos that joined the Den just to debate with us about it, and then they disappeared shortly after. Like, how did they even find out about it? 

I’ve wondered that for the past few years. They all just showed up out of nowhere!

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This is something that's been on my mind lately. It's a part of larger conversation about what's been happening in the creative fields I work in.

The rerelease of Persona 5 rewrote a scene where a couple of gay men were creeping on your characters. There was a lot of outrage over this scene in the usual corners. Really didn't see the need for it, because I'm an adult and I understand that one character is not representative of an entire gender or sexuality as a whole. This lead to a lot of localization staff openly discussing puffing up their role in the process, altering the text to suit their worldview, and even chastising developers. There are all sorts of stories with all sorts of characters. The job of a localization staff is to represent the art by helping tell that story, not tell their story. This has been the case in manga and it reminds me of how things were censored in the 90s by the far right.

Something that's become quite prevalent lately has been the introduction of "sensitivity readers." This goes beyond an editor. A good editor will see the rough patches in a story and will give suggestions in the writer's best interests. A sensitivity reader has no investment in the writer's success. They're coming in as a third party moral authority and edit out what they deem to be problematic. Which is usually an ever changing list that ranges from anything to everything. To them, you're already bad and you need their consulting. Some people's works get stripped of their characters and conflicts. Some people cancel their work all together out of fear.

I hate seeing this. It makes for bland characters and stories where everyone's friends and nothing happens. Artists and writers can have a difficult time getting paid what they're worth as it is. These people don't serve the story. They serve themselves. They play on good intentions and take a good chunk of the budget. Many of them are failed writers who found a way of being in the industry without being in the industry. Be it a bad teacher shaming a student, or a Twitter pile on for something ridiculous, it makes me sad to see the joy of the creative process ruined for folks.

Edited by Dwaine
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Oh definitely. There was a time where we had the occasional troll that posted every 3 seconds and argued with you all the time.

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1 hour ago, eal said:

Oh definitely. There was a time where we had the occasional troll that posted every 3 seconds and argued with you all the time.

I had to deal with a troll here 4 or 5 years ago.

But with a name like Devilspree, I should've probably realized he was going to be a troll

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On 9/20/2020 at 9:09 PM, Dwaine said:

This lead to a lot of localization staff openly discussing puffing up their role in the process, altering the text to suit their worldview, and even chastising developers.

One of the best descriptions of modern localization I heard was the admittedly crass metaphor that it was like importing foreign liqueur, only the importer peed in every bottle.

Another harmful side-effect of all this is that it encourages piracy, because it's increasingly the only way to get to the original content.

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  • 1 month later...

Censorship of games isn't too bad as of now There is too much hateful and repulsive content in Western games, and while I like some of the more violent games made in the West, I really wish they were different. If Japanese can make their games so successfull and so good without falling into constant gore, why can't Western games be the same? They've gotten better at this during PS4 generation but there's still a long way ahead... and it doesn't seem like many companies are interested in having less violence. It sells and it's seen as "better" than non-violent games by default. 

That's my preferece, however. I think there should be a clear and stable taboo and stigma on bad things such as drugs, violence, smoking, degrading sexual practices and such. Nobody should be punished just for it. But the stigma needs to be there or the society will continue to degrade. There's already a "national conversation" about people who are attracted to minors, there's already attempts of legalizing high mind-altering drugs, people freely talk about marijuana. It's getting worse and worse.

 

As for sexual censorship, I fully support their censorship. Japanese need to get out of the waifu, gacha and perversion hell. Square Enix and personally Matsuda president are to blame for the rise of this content. If they won't stop and come up with a plan to take away degrading pornographic games (be it softcore pornography like Senran Kagura, waifu games or hardcore pornography), then Japanese will just abandon console games. The market is already decreasing and nobody seems to even try to restore it. Big Japanese developers need to sit down at a round table and come up with some fund and a plan to restore Japanese market for big, story-heavy console games. 

 

I do however think that the real censorship is terrible. It's just insulting to me that whenever you mentioned "censorship" in JRPG and anime circle, people immediately go on about censorship of "waifus" and swimsuits as if it's the only problem there is in this world. Twitter is censoring anyone who doesn't support SJW and / or whatever narrative they push. It's real and they're doing it not just to small people but to White House secretaries, presidents and other officials. Facebook, Google, Reddit - every big tech company you can think of is censoring people. I've seen videos after videos of people from Tiktok burning books with hateful messages all across the screen, saw them tearing up what appeared to be legit ballots and stealing the election, saw numerous hateful messages towards white people and not just on Tiktok but Instagram, Reddit, Twitter - nothing is happening to those messages, they're not being removed. Meanwhile, if you dare say anything SJW don't like... it's a guaranteed ban. I got banned on Resetera two times, one time on Twitter... and the twitter ban was so ridicilous, they literally banned me for a tweet in which I said that "Cardi B music is repulsive" - I guess that's racism? They banned me literally 15 minutes later after I sent that tweet and it's not like I'm some kind of celebrity with millions of followers. My guess is that they have some automated system which tracks conservative and / or anti-SJW accounts, then if you subscribe to that account, they target you because of the link. 

They demonetize content creators with opposing views, they constantly lalel people as some kind of "-ist" if you dare disagree with them or point out that whatever political organization they want everyone to support is corrupt and is a fraud. They call rioting and looting, intimidation and assault of people on the Internet and real life "mostly peaceful".

 

If anyone wants to talk about censorship, let's talk about the real censorship that happened in Soviet Union. Thousands of artists were sent to prisons, layed off of their jobs, spied on, killed for just saying that communism isn't good, for supporting national ideas and art. Meanwhile, all of the communism-approved art was absolute rubbish. I remember growing up in my origin country and seeing all those old Soviet books... whenever I'd see some book written by a person with communist awards, I knew immediately those books were boring and rubbish, and they were because they were just words that were useful to the party. People would read that rubbish, buy it because there was nothing to counter it with except "old and boring" classical books... which were heavily edited by Communist re-translators, by the way.

USA is moving the same path and you can see that even now - they'd rather watch poorly made TV shows with politically correct narratives instead of watching a classic movie with "outdated moral values", instead of reading a classic book... The censorship is currently on the rise in USA and it's reminding me of what happened in Soviet Union or even Germany before the WW2. ... it's a very sad sight to behold and I'm truly worried what will happen in the future. Soviet Union failed on all fronts but back then there were all kinds of cultural counters - the foreign literature and art were smuggled in all the time. But the problem is that you can't just make popular art in our time if it doesn't allign with the narrative. Movies, video games, TV shows - they all require very large budgets and investments, approvals, numerous people involved. 

The censorship is also much easier to do nowadays because we all have this understanding of "violence against group A" is bad, no matter what. But that's not what the SJW think - they think anything is okay if the person can be labeled as  any "-ist". Putting real violence aside, I want to point out that there's no need for it anymore. All SJW need to do is to demonetize, cut the funding sources, cut the public presence, cut the ads. It's the same as election fraud - all they need to do is get the right people as those who count the votes. They don't need to make sure that people don't vote for candidate A or B or cause harm to supporters of candidate A or B. Just make it look "not cool" to vote for that candidate, politicize and brainwash the people and make sure they work right where you need them to work. This is soft censorship and it's very dangerous because it's that easy to implement if you have control over the media and pop-culture.

Edited by ShonenKokoro
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Damn, I think @ignasia has met his match when it comes to long posts.

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24 minutes ago, Plattym3 said:

Nah. You need 100 of those posts to come close.

You have to start somewhere.

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3 hours ago, ShonenKokoro said:
Spoiler

Censorship of games isn't too bad as of now There is too much hateful and repulsive content in Western games, and while I like some of the more violent games made in the West, I really wish they were different. If Japanese can make their games so successfull and so good without falling into constant gore, why can't Western games be the same? They've gotten better at this during PS4 generation but there's still a long way ahead... and it doesn't seem like many companies are interested in having less violence. It sells and it's seen as "better" than non-violent games by default. 

That's my preferece, however. I think there should be a clear and stable taboo and stigma on bad things such as drugs, violence, smoking, degrading sexual practices and such. Nobody should be punished just for it. But the stigma needs to be there or the society will continue to degrade. There's already a "national conversation" about people who are attracted to minors, there's already attempts of legalizing high mind-altering drugs, people freely talk about marijuana. It's getting worse and worse.

 

As for sexual censorship, I fully support their censorship. Japanese need to get out of the waifu, gacha and perversion hell. Square Enix and personally Matsuda president are to blame for the rise of this content. If they won't stop and come up with a plan to take away degrading pornographic games (be it softcore pornography like Senran Kagura, waifu games or hardcore pornography), then Japanese will just abandon console games. The market is already decreasing and nobody seems to even try to restore it. Big Japanese developers need to sit down at a round table and come up with some fund and a plan to restore Japanese market for big, story-heavy console games. 

 

I do however think that the real censorship is terrible. It's just insulting to me that whenever you mentioned "censorship" in JRPG and anime circle, people immediately go on about censorship of "waifus" and swimsuits as if it's the only problem there is in this world. Twitter is censoring anyone who doesn't support SJW and / or whatever narrative they push. It's real and they're doing it not just to small people but to White House secretaries, presidents and other officials. Facebook, Google, Reddit - every big tech company you can think of is censoring people. I've seen videos after videos of people from Tiktok burning books with hateful messages all across the screen, saw them tearing up what appeared to be legit ballots and stealing the election, saw numerous hateful messages towards white people and not just on Tiktok but Instagram, Reddit, Twitter - nothing is happening to those messages, they're not being removed. Meanwhile, if you dare say anything SJW don't like... it's a guaranteed ban. I got banned on Resetera two times, one time on Twitter... and the twitter ban was so ridicilous, they literally banned me for a tweet in which I said that "Cardi B music is repulsive" - I guess that's racism? They banned me literally 15 minutes later after I sent that tweet and it's not like I'm some kind of celebrity with millions of followers. My guess is that they have some automated system which tracks conservative and / or anti-SJW accounts, then if you subscribe to that account, they target you because of the link. 

They demonetize content creators with opposing views, they constantly lalel people as some kind of "-ist" if you dare disagree with them or point out that whatever political organization they want everyone to support is corrupt and is a fraud. They call rioting and looting, intimidation and assault of people on the Internet and real life "mostly peaceful".

 

If anyone wants to talk about censorship, let's talk about the real censorship that happened in Soviet Union. Thousands of artists were sent to prisons, layed off of their jobs, spied on, killed for just saying that communism isn't good, for supporting national ideas and art. Meanwhile, all of the communism-approved art was absolute rubbish. I remember growing up in my origin country and seeing all those old Soviet books... whenever I'd see some book written by a person with communist awards, I knew immediately those books were boring and rubbish, and they were because they were just words that were useful to the party. People would read that rubbish, buy it because there was nothing to counter it with except "old and boring" classical books... which were heavily edited by Communist re-translators, by the way.

USA is moving the same path and you can see that even now - they'd rather watch poorly made TV shows with politically correct narratives instead of watching a classic movie with "outdated moral values", instead of reading a classic book... The censorship is currently on the rise in USA and it's reminding me of what happened in Soviet Union or even Germany before the WW2. ... it's a very sad sight to behold and I'm truly worried what will happen in the future. Soviet Union failed on all fronts but back then there were all kinds of cultural counters - the foreign literature and art were smuggled in all the time. But the problem is that you can't just make popular art in our time if it doesn't allign with the narrative. Movies, video games, TV shows - they all require very large budgets and investments, approvals, numerous people involved. 

The censorship is also much easier to do nowadays because we all have this understanding of "violence against group A" is bad, no matter what. But that's not what the SJW think - they think anything is okay if the person can be labeled as  any "-ist". Putting real violence aside, I want to point out that there's no need for it anymore. All SJW need to do is to demonetize, cut the funding sources, cut the public presence, cut the ads. It's the same as election fraud - all they need to do is get the right people as those who count the votes. They don't need to make sure that people don't vote for candidate A or B or cause harm to supporters of candidate A or B. Just make it look "not cool" to vote for that candidate, politicize and brainwash the people and make sure they work right where you need them to work. This is soft censorship and it's very dangerous because it's that easy to implement if you have control over the media and pop-culture.

 

I'm sick of the propaganda now, but that's more tv shows.

I watched DC's Legends of Tomorrow. They had a bisexual woman on the team, and it was fine. It was her character. Then Supergirl's adoptive sister realized at the age of 20-something that she was a lesbian. The Flash has gay characters, and the Huffington Post says "Inclusion of LGBT characters and a diverse cast...". A review of Arrow says "Arrow has revealed the son of main character Oliver Queen is gay". With four DC shows on the CW, this seems more like propaganda. Its like they're having a board meeting where they say "Does this superhero show have a gay character yet?"

Cartoon Network is doing the same thing. During the final season of Adventure Time, Princess Bubblegum and Marceline shared a kiss. These two were main characters for the whole series. They had fleshed out back stories, and a lot of depth. I was surprised by the kiss, because I didn't know they had a relationship beyond friends. I watched Victor and Valentino, and a supporting character named Xochi Jalapeño has a girlfriend who took her to a club, while the title characters tagged along. Last week, I watched the terrible reboot of Thundercats Go, and Panthro was dating Barbastella the Bat Queen. The episode revolved around her ex The Rat Queen, a rat woman with a rather butch haircut. They made the relationship perfectly clear when Barbastella said "I used to date her," and "That's why I stopped dating her."

As a bisexual, I have no problem with gays in the media, but this is more like propaganda. As I mentioned, the female superhero in DC's Legends of Tomorrow is a character who is bisexual. Marceline and Princess Bubblegum were on the show for ten years. But these other ones seem to be "Hey, I'm a new character, and I'm gay."

The intent is supposed to be "Accept people for who they are," but the message becomes "Have you ever considered being LGBT yourself?"

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33 minutes ago, Wes said:

I'm sick of the propaganda now, but that's more tv shows.

I watched DC's Legends of Tomorrow. They had a bisexual woman on the team, and it was fine. It was her character. Then Supergirl's adoptive sister realized at the age of 20-something that she was a lesbian. The Flash has gay characters, and the Huffington Post says "Inclusion of LGBT characters and a diverse cast...". A review of Arrow says "Arrow has revealed the son of main character Oliver Queen is gay". With four DC shows on the CW, this seems more like propaganda. Its like they're having a board meeting where they say "Does this superhero show have a gay character yet?"

Cartoon Network is doing the same thing. During the final season of Adventure Time, Princess Bubblegum and Marceline shared a kiss. These two were main characters for the whole series. They had fleshed out back stories, and a lot of depth. I was surprised by the kiss, because I didn't know they had a relationship beyond friends. I watched Victor and Valentino, and a supporting character named Xochi Jalapeño has a girlfriend who took her to a club, while the title characters tagged along. Last week, I watched the terrible reboot of Thundercats Go, and Panthro was dating Barbastella the Bat Queen. The episode revolved around her ex The Rat Queen, a rat woman with a rather butch haircut. They made the relationship perfectly clear when Barbastella said "I used to date her," and "That's why I stopped dating her."

As a bisexual, I have no problem with gays in the media, but this is more like propaganda. As I mentioned, the female superhero in DC's Legends of Tomorrow is a character who is bisexual. Marceline and Princess Bubblegum were on the show for ten years. But these other ones seem to be "Hey, I'm a new character, and I'm gay."

The intent is supposed to be "Accept people for who they are," but the message becomes "Have you ever considered being LGBT yourself?"

Gay characters is sort of a staple of CW shows. Riverdale has Kevin Keller, who has been a gay character in Archie comics for a long time now. And Supernatural just revealed an existing character is gay. Obviously, Batwoman is a lesbian as well. I’ve also heard there are gay characters in The 100? Keep in mind I haven’t watched any of these shows aside from Supernatural. I’m not really the demographic they’re chasing.

I do always get a little thrown when people say some representation is fine but too much, as determined on an individual basis, and it becomes propaganda and it’s bad. And this part isn’t really directed at you, it’s just a general observation. The issue is that, like any part of storytelling, revealing a character’s sexuality or relationship with another character, can be done poorly. Normally, we’ll hand wave away a poorly handled straight relationship is bad writing, but when it’s a gay relationship, it’s propaganda or being shoved down our throats. Why can’t it just also be bad writing?

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51 minutes ago, eal said:

Gay characters is sort of a staple of CW shows. Riverdale has Kevin Keller, who has been a gay character in Archie comics for a long time now. And Supernatural just revealed an existing character is gay. 

Normally, we’ll hand wave away a poorly handled straight relationship is bad writing, but when it’s a gay relationship, it’s propaganda or being shoved down our throats. Why can’t it just also be bad writing?

I had a huge crush on Charlie Bradbury. Her first episode said she was gay, but her character was already well written. She loved Hermione, she was a hacker because she skirted the law and wanted to be indispensable (as she said when Dick Roman asked her). It was well written, because they weren't making a gay character, they were making a computer hacker with enough attitude and backstory to bring back.

I guess I take it as bad writing because it is bad writing, and as propaganda because it seems like their intent is "We need a gay character," and they didn't work on it enough.

Maybe it'll just take time to accept, like procedural cop shows took time to accept, or like how E.R. often has the patient's family and friends inside the surgery room before the operation.

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18 hours ago, ShonenKokoro said:

I wrote a reply but it doesn't let me send it, not sure what's wrong.

Testing

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2 hours ago, Woodus said:

Testing

I already discarded the message but it's not a big deal, don't worry.

 

On 11/11/2020 at 2:48 PM, Wes said:

I had a huge crush on Charlie Bradbury. Her first episode said she was gay, but her character was already well written. She loved Hermione, she was a hacker because she skirted the law and wanted to be indispensable (as she said when Dick Roman asked her). It was well written, because they weren't making a gay character, they were making a computer hacker with enough attitude and backstory to bring back.

I guess I take it as bad writing because it is bad writing, and as propaganda because it seems like their intent is "We need a gay character," and they didn't work on it enough.

Maybe it'll just take time to accept, like procedural cop shows took time to accept, or like how E.R. often has the patient's family and friends inside the surgery room before the operation.

The message I was typing got bugged out and I couldn't send it.. I'm a little too lazy to try to rewrite it, sorry :D But I wanted to share this youtuber with you, Andrew Klavan. He makes a lot of commentary and videos about censorship in USA. He's mostly doing political commentary but he also does cultural stuff sometimes, so I suggest checking him out. He's a part of "Daily Wire", conservative set of channels and he's my favorite person in that group.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyhEZKz-LOwgktptEOh6_Iw

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28 minutes ago, ShonenKokoro said:

I already discarded the message but it's not a big deal, don't worry.

 

The message I was typing got bugged out and I couldn't send it.. I'm a little too lazy to try to rewrite it, sorry :D But I wanted to share this youtuber with you, Andrew Klavan. He makes a lot of commentary and videos about censorship in USA. He's mostly doing political commentary but he also does cultural stuff sometimes, so I suggest checking him out. He's a part of "Daily Wire", conservative set of channels and he's my favorite person in that group.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyhEZKz-LOwgktptEOh6_Iw

What is he? The right wing Stephen Colbert/Seth Meyers?

As a moderate Democrat, I laugh at a lot of stuff Colbert and Meyers do, but I shake my head at some of it. Klavan's Sleepy and Maleficent video makes me think he's does quality satire as a Republican.

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