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Matt's Rants - Censorship


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SJW isn't Single Japanese Woman?   Mortamor & Fur would get a laugh out of this topic.

If people don't like all censored localizations or just certain kinds of censored content for whatever personal reasons ie artistic integrity, is there a reason certain people insist on telling them h

I was actually thinking about that Eal, but thanks for clarifying that you are just as bad as those people you despise. Up, up and away you go!   The key difference however, is that anti-censorship

 

 

SJW isn't Single Japanese Woman?

Mortamor & Fur would get a laugh out of this topic.

They sure would.
They.
"They."
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If people don't like all censored localizations or just certain kinds of censored content for whatever personal reasons ie artistic integrity, is there a reason certain people insist on telling them how wrong they are to feel that way over and over again?

 

Others having an opinion they disagree with seems to be the thing that is bothering the poster(s) since we are told the issue of censorship is something they could care less about. So why not start not caring right now?

 

There is no boycott happening or anything being done against developers, so the giant concern over what people think about it seems pointless. Complaining about complaining is what it is.

Edited by En Garde
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If people don't like all censored localizations or just certain kinds of censored content for whatever personal reasons ie artistic integrity, is there a reason certain people insist on telling them how wrong they are to feel that way over and over again?

 

Others having an opinion they disagree with seems to be the thing that is bothering the poster(s) since we are told the issue of censorship is something they could care less about. So why not start not caring right now?

 

There is no boycott happening or anything being done against developers, so the giant concern over what people think about it seems pointless. Complaining about complaining is what it is.

 

If you're referring to me, what bothers me is when people complain about censorship in what I consider the wrong way. 

 

Who really honestly cares about lingerie or 13-year olds having bikinis? Why can't we go up in arms and send protest notes and stuff to governments that have archaic guidelines about releasing interactive media? Sending letter campaigns and stuff to show governments that us, the main class of gamers, can handle anything that comes with us, same as movies, TV, and books.

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If people don't like all censored localizations or just certain kinds of censored content for whatever personal reasons ie artistic integrity, is there a reason certain people insist on telling them how wrong they are to feel that way over and over again?

Like when people who don't like content within a game for whatever reason are labeled as "social justice warriors" and people get mad at them because they think developers are altering their content to appease them....

 

Like I said, before, and this isn't aimed at anyone in case they get upset because they think I'm referring to them, as much as people are getting tired of people who are offended by things, I'm equally tired of people who get offended by people who get offended by things. Sometimes, they make a bigger stink then the people who started it. More people are angry about "happy holidays" than those who are angry with "merry Christmas" and on the opposite end of the spectrum, more people got up I. Arms about people who hated the Starbucks cups than those who actually hated them. Saw a lot of people getting angry at the people who hated the cups, didn't see a single person actually express how much they hated them.

 

And awaaaaaaay I go!

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I was actually thinking about that Eal, but thanks for clarifying that you are just as bad as those people you despise. Up, up and away you go!

 

The key difference however, is that anti-censorship people aren't trying to shape the content that everyone gets to suit their personal ideology, they just want the product as it was intended. Whatever that may be. So the source of your vendetta on this topic is a mystery.

Edited by En Garde
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Freedom of speech and freedom of expression.

 

The childish thing to do, is to fear the potential reality of influence of a thing, or the behaviour of a few, in light of being influenced by a thing or idea.  The adult and right thing to do, is realize that an idea is not an action taken, it's simply that, an idea, regardless of how it is expressed.  It can be mocked, ignored, discussed at length and disregarded as an absurdist notion, if it is so, or praised, and lauded for its eye and mind opening concepts, new way of thinking or looking at a particular thing or way of life, or perhaps simply enjoyed for its being and the experience granted, to be mostly forgotten but for the memory of what emotions and thoughts it evoked.

 

The thing is, one cannot truly determine if something is right or wrong if a thing is censored. One cannot know what a thing is, if it is not what it is.  Thus in censorship, a thing is no longer present in its original and intended form.  This poses many rippling elements that may not affect concepts, words, ideas, art, drawings, scenes, sounds, music, etc. in all things deemed precious at first, but like all ripples there's that chance it will, and history demonstrates that censorship has never once stopped at a single instance of anything.

 

Sure, I do grasp the notion of horror some might feel at looking at at 13-year old girl in a bikini, but there are ways around this, and ways of looking at it.  Frankly I was never bothered by Momo's swimsuit outfits in any of the Saga games.  For me, it was simply a girl in a swimsuit.  So I never saw any conflict, though some did balk at the notion of a girl who is 14 and 15 (though appears, literally so, as a biological age range of 10~12).  It doesn't bother me, I don't see it as an exploit, and there are other factors involved such as those Varuna has already mentioned.  She could easily be much older in Earth years.  Her body, unlike Momo, is also older, but even disregarding that, age and body-type can have a wide range.  I knew girls in High School that could pass for 23~25 easily, and one that could pass for over 30, and a few somewhere in their late 20's.  I dated a girl who was 28, but looked about 32.  Another girl I knew who was 27, but could pass for 13, and often WAS mistaken for a child (actually, more than one woman who looked like a teenager, but was into their mid 20's and even early 30's).  I even know one 34 year old that looks 50+, and at times can look like she's in her 60's.

 

So an easy work around can be to just change her age.  Concepts in this case, are indeed different in Japan versus America, and with that sensibilities of age differential, however, America might be center-right, but center is VERY liberal these days.  What is classified as modern liberal, or progressive, has almost gone past what liberal philosophy is supposed to cater to: freedom and liberty, period.  Instead it has become so afraid of any potential harm that might be caused, it has become protectionist, and thus totalitarian in nature, while what was conservatism, is far closer to the concept of classical liberalism, with some elements of big-government protectionism in terms of physical harm or fear of potential physical harm to the country, and neo-conservatives are downright frightening totalitarians on the other end of the stick of neo-libs.  The point being, this country, as a whole, has a center that is essentially the classical liberalism of the founders, both economically and socially, at least more attuned to Madison economically, and Franklin socially.

 

I recall the days when people complained about the censorship of yesteryear, in fear of conservatives, which amounted to few protests, and like today's more ardent protesters, were small in number, large in voice, and vapid in reasoning.

 

A boob slider is a big deal Matt.  Are you saying that all breasts are the same size now?  I happen to prefer smaller breasts.  I tend to date women with athletic bodies, toned, trim, and generally have smaller chests.  Even so, I sometimes like women with larger breast sizes.  If I were to say, accurately portray a particular person or character, breast size augmentation is in the original, as it should be, because all women are created with their own unique sizes and shapes, and this feature should be maintained for that consistency.  Though consider if you were a woman, and you wanted to create a character that represented you.  What if your breasts were much larger?  What if they were much smaller than the fixed size presented?

 

The point is, censorship is never a good thing.  If it's bad, we can note that it is so, and see it for what it is, and through understanding this, come to the wisdom that it does not affect who we actually are, and those who are affected, are essentially people with problems.  Big problems.  If it's good, we can enjoy it for what it is.  For what it represents, and just engage in the experience.

 

 

What if someone created a game about...oh, Settlers, Cowboys and Indians.  Let's call it Oregon Trail!  What if, to avoid potential conflict Native American tribes were altered to look white, and were called...Roanokians?  How would that be a positive change?  How does censoring Native Americans help Natives feel better about themselves?  How does this not change or alter the perception of history, or the storyline at hand?  Granted, anyone can read up on the actual history of the Oregon trail, and understand the nature of that history, but that doesn't alter that the game makes no sense in context, because it altered and censored elements in it.

 

 

What about Vanilla Ware's last game?  What if you couldn't play the dude with the giant bulge in his pants?  You know, because it might offend someone to see a guy with massive muscles and a giant bulge in his pants, turned into a nerdy weakling?  Granted, it would be hilarious to make a barbarian/warrior/soldier type character into a slightly overweight or tall and lanky geek who knows every DnD rulebook by wrote, and can recite it at will to "bore" enemies, swinging a sword, with physics indicating he's as powerful as a giant burly guy...BUT, it changes the context.  The burly beefy man was made in contrast with the giant boobalicious witch.  Two gender stereotyped characters, that together fit a nice mold, and frankly, it's bloody hilarious watching the jiggle physics.  Censoring one element would remove what was intended to be there, and change it to something totally unintended by the creators, and also conflicts with the original intent of said creation.  The censored in nerd would be funny as heck, but would make no sense in context with the rest of the crew, it would stand out.

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I have not read all the posts here yet. But just reading about this whole "censorship vs localization" thing is pissing me off. I dislike censorship, and I dislike localization. They are both terrible.

 

Translation is good. And I'll even go so far as to say some translation based localization is good, too. I can't think of a particular example here, but minor changes are OK if the source material just wouldn't make any sense to the new target audience. Such as a riddle, joke, or pun that has it's roots in the original language, but the words and/or grammar of the new language causes said riddle/joke/pun to not make any sense. Only in cases similar to this scenario, should something be changed for a new country. Otherwise, leave it be. This is part of the reason I dislike a lot of the changes in the new (Post-DW7 PS1) Dragon Quest translations. Of course, I'm glad that the games get translated at all, but when they change the context of the original script, it pisses me off.

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SJW isn't Single Japanese Woman?

Mortamor & Fur would get a laugh out of this topic.

They sure would.
They.

 

The singular, genderless "they".

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I have not read all the posts here yet. But just reading about this whole "censorship vs localization" thing is pissing me off. I dislike censorship, and I dislike localization. They are both terrible.

 

Translation is good. And I'll even go so far as to say some translation based localization is good, too. I can't think of a particular example here, but minor changes are OK if the source material just wouldn't make any sense to the new target audience. Such as a riddle, joke, or pun that has it's roots in the original language, but the words and/or grammar of the new language causes said riddle/joke/pun to not make any sense. Only in cases similar to this scenario, should something be changed for a new country. Otherwise, leave it be. This is part of the reason I dislike a lot of the changes in the new (Post-DW7 PS1) Dragon Quest translations. Of course, I'm glad that the games get translated at all, but when they change the context of the original script, it pisses me off.

 

So you'd prefer anything coming from outside the country to just be base-translated and nothing adapted?

 

I can't say I agree, or really disagree with that. But with that logic, titles like Earthbound would have been a lot less fun to play IMO.

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I can't think of a particular example here, but minor changes are OK if the source material just wouldn't make any sense to the new target audience. Such as a riddle, joke, or pun that has it's roots in the original language, but the words and/or grammar of the new language causes said riddle/joke/pun to not make any sense. Only in cases similar to this scenario, should something be changed for a new country.

That would be localization.

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Localization vary in terms of the type of changes they employ.  Even some translations alter the original context.  If done right, a localization or translation maintains those key elements, keeps names where the direct translation is integral to the storyline (thanks XBCX for integral storyline changes inherent IN the original names, and only make sense IN their original context as their original names), but alters elements like HOW a sentence is phrased, because a direct translation makes no sense going from one language to another, without ruining the elements of that sentence integral to the storyline.  Even translations do some localization work, even if it is some grammar and word shifts to make certain sentences come to life.

 

There's also an issue with most languages having particular words that have greater context and meaning, as in multiple layers of meaning that doesn't translate directly to English, or another language that might have a similar word, but the context that word is used alters the meaning just enough to make a direct translation lose the original intent and meaning.

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  • 4 years later...
33 minutes ago, Blackrazor187 said:

censorship has been nothing at all but pure cancer and nothign at all justifies it. 

It ruined parts of the Pokemon series.

In gen 1&2, I used the game corner a lot.

When Heart Gold and Soul Silver came out for the DS, Goldenrod City had card flipping instead of slots. You could no longer buy tokens.

Then Alpha Sapphire and Omega Ruby came out. The slot machines were closed. Apparently, gambling would've pushed the UK version's rating to Teen, and America would have to follow suit or something. They cut out mild, simulated gambling because it would've cut out too much of their target audience. As someone who has never used a real slot machine, but uses them a lot in games (Pokemon, Dragon Warrior 2, 4, 5, 6, etc, Golden Sun), I just don't understand why the rating is pushed so high. I was 10 when I started gambling IN video games, but have never really had the urge to bet real money.

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Oh fun, is this bring up old arguments that really no one wants to participate in or really hear whining about day? Let me add that to the calendar for next year so I remember to skip it.

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Just now, Plattym3 said:

Oh fun, is this bring up old arguments that really no one wants to participate in or really hear whining about day? Let me add that to the calendar for next year so I remember to skip it.

And another thing! Why should I put a calendar reminder in my phone for next year, when I'm going to have a different phone by then! :jackoslime: (That was the angriest emoji I could find)

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9 minutes ago, Plattym3 said:

Oh fun, is this bring up old arguments that really no one wants to participate in or really hear whining about day? Let me add that to the calendar for next year so I remember to skip it.

Have you heard of this game Fire Emblem Fates?

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1 minute ago, eal said:

Have you heard of this game Fire Emblem Fates?

(Cue Vietnam styled flashbacks)

Those were dark times on the Den.

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1 minute ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:

(Cue Vietnam styled flashbacks)

Those were dark times on the Den.

*Paraphrased from the second Rambo movie*

Do you know how Major Murdock said he beat Fire Emblem Fates on the Gamecube?

Yeah.

Fates was never on the Game Cube... You're the only one I trust.

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18 minutes ago, eal said:

Fixed that for you.

Haha, I debated if I should have included “Dark, but great,” times after my sentence. It certainly was an interesting topic/time on the den.

Edited by YangustheLegendaryBandit
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1 minute ago, YangustheLegendaryBandit said:

Haha, I debated if I should have included “Dark, but great,” times after my sentence. It certainly was an interesting topic/time on the den.

I’ll never forget all those randos that joined the Den just to debate with us about it, and then they disappeared shortly after. Like, how did they even find out about it? 

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1 hour ago, Plattym3 said:

Oh fun, is this bring up old arguments that really no one wants to participate in or really hear whining about day? Let me add that to the calendar for next year so I remember to skip it.

Wait, we have one of those? I don't want to miss next year's!

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