Jump to content

8-25-2015 - The Day Square Enix Lost the Benefit of the Doubt


Recommended Posts

If people want to win an island, they will pre-order, Darck.

 

I mean, AustNerevar.

I laughed at this more than I should have.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 97
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

It's funny. I was about to express how I'm really getting sick of how some people on the Bookfaces are acting in regards to the group and the official page. Constructive comments and witty, good natur

But um, back to the lecture at hand. Perfection is perfected, so I'ma let 'em understand.   It would be nice to see more journalists, especially those already in the in with Square Enix ask them the

If I win the island, I'm naming it Localize More Dragon Quest Games Island

I never got the antagonism behind preorders. I preorder a lot of stuff all the time. I see it up, place the order, and forget about it and when it's time it ships and there you have it. If they want to throw in extras for preordering... sure why not. It's not like I'm losing the money, I'm getting the product I wanted in the end. No harm done. If I wanted Just Cause 3 (I don't), I would have preordered it just to get it out of the way like I do most games I get. If I won an island? Ok, thanks. Not like I lost anything!

 

Now, locking content behind preordering at different locations... that's BS. Very annoying.

 

Also, is the whole "WIN A ISLAND!!!" thing a little ridiculous? Absolutely. But honestly, I want to see someone win it just to see how it goes.

Edited by Fates
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

The issue with pre-ordering is that it's asking you to pre-buy a game before it comes out, before reviews and word of mouth tell you if it's any good, and for a game that doesn't need to be "pre-ordered." There will be plenty of copies of Metal Gear Solid V the next day, no one needs to make sure they reserve their copy before they run out.

 

Pre-ordering does nothing but help the retailer, typically GameStop, and the publisher. It's guarenteed purchases before the game even come out. And all they have to do is make an exclusive deal with GameStop to lock something behind a pre-order code.

 

Very few games should need to be pre-ordered. The last game I've pre-ordered in a decade was Dancing All Night a few weeks ago, and that's a Vita game. A system so unloved by retailers the clerk warned me it was a Vita game.

 

Unless it's from a small publisher like XSeed, where you know they'll only stock one copy of the game otherwise, there's no need to pre-order something.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Now, locking content behind preordering at different locations... that's BS. Very annoying.

 

This is pretty much the only thing wrong with preorders. The reason I stated what I did about preorder culture because this is a clear case of SE mismanaging funds and relying on sensationalism to sell preorders. I'd rather not see this type of thing perpetuated.

 

But there's nothing wrong, inherently, with preordering a game that you know you're going to buy anyway. I've always preordered each installment in The Elder Scrolls franchise because it's a series I'll probably continue to play simply for the lore. But preordering Evolve so you can get some monsters that are locked out of the actual release is bad for everybody. Essentially when your preorder Just Cause 3 now you'll be telling SE that this kind of sensationalism works.

 

Also, is the whole "WIN A ISLAND!!!" thing a little ridiculous? Absolutely. But honestly, I want to see someone win it just to see how it goes.

 

As Dwaine said, they can afford a freaking island, but not localization costs?

 

Edit: Also, preorder culture is not as big of a deal in the PC market now that Steam has implemented a proper refund policy. However, it still has created an unhealthy consumer/publisher relationship.

Edited by AustNerevar
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

And yay, the eal did descend from his den, proclaiming the ideas of pre-orders upon the people...

 

PRAISE NUMEN!

Link to post
Share on other sites

There are even times where a pre-order bonus is no longer supported.  Perhaps because the servers holding the data was closed, or reset with new data to save cost to the company, or maybe the original company folds, the product is sold to a different one, or maybe there were several parties involved, and only one ends up with full ownership and they weren't running the original servers with the pre-order data, and they decide not to honour the original contract, and close down the servers they never planned to run when they first invested in that game/series.

 

Case in point, pre-orders and the first shipments of Sacred 2 came with a Carrier Imp, that carried around your treasure chest.  A very useful thing to have, because one can be out in the field for extended periods, and getting back to town can be a hassle each time, then returning to the area/dungeon can take some time.  The imp saved time.  Anyway, Ascaron folded, but the secondary producer, Deep Silver, picked up full rights, however, they did not honour the data that Ascaron ensured for their fans, and the Imp was pulled, however, it's not as simple as that.  They went so far as to release a patch that removes the ability for those who had already downloaded it, to use it!

 

Thanks Deep Silver.  Thanks for being utter dicks.  The saddest part is, the second game was excellent as a Diablo clone, but the third game, run entirely by Deep Silver, was one of the worst releases ever as they did away with everything that was unique to the first two Sacred games (similarly to SE's butchery of Dungeon Siege 3).

 

I like the concept of pre-orders, as it helps to get a jump on games I know I'll buy in the first place.  Especially in light of games that are likely to have limited releases, and for mainstream games, getting a jump on most of my fellow gamers by experiencing it early.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, to use it as a way to jump sales, by promising special features only found for those early adopters, goes a long way to harming the gaming public and the relationship in the long run.  Just as much as DLC abuse does.  Such as any and all DLC decisions Capcom makes, and most of those Sony and MS make, even today.  Same with cash-shop elements in MMO's.  It creates a lopsided experience that alienates certain players from future adoption, and I wonder if someone could do some scientific polling to figure out whether people are turned off from buying a game due to pre-order in-game bonuses.

 

That said, I'm all for stuff like special boxes, with physical objects inside.  Like figurines, cloth maps, buttons, maybe a shirt, a pen.  Nothing that gives a gameplay advantage or distinction. 

 

Though, if a pre-order adds something like early access to a certain item that would be available to everyone who purchased the game later.  That would not bother me, as it doesn't deny other players who couldn't afford to buy that game, or weren't as interested at the time, but planned to, or end up buying it later.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have very opinionated on pre-orders and free-to-play...

 

I see where you're coming from on pre-orders, but I can't agree with the logic.  Even if a game has been released, except for playing it at a friend's place, there is no logical way to claim foreknowledge that you would enjoy it.

 

Someone has to buy it first anyhow, and whether this is a pre-order or day 1, it changes little, only when the money is initially exchanged for it.

 

Sure, if the development cycle allows for pre-orders with the video and discussion releases of early builds, it would make sense, given how many likely changes can be made, and the Molyneux effect: promising elements, supposedly showcasing them, but having to remove them because they were never properly implemented, and the dev team isn't sure how to.  This would lead to people buying a game on false pretenses.  However, this rarely happens, again, thanks to Peter Molyneux and his first RPG, on the XBOX.  Luckily, it was a REALLY good game, despite these elements, so isn't like people were subjected to a poor quality product, just a game quite similar to the genre they already liked, and with a lot of extra elements not common to that genre, just not what he promised would be present, or in the way he promised it would present itself in-game.

 

 

Anyway, the point is, games are typically put on pre-order well after the game's final build is released on video, when we know they're either touching things up, wrapping up beta tests, or maybe finalizing localizations.  Meaning people have the same amount of knowledge of the game as those who will wait day 1.

 

Plus, today, and since the dawn of the internet, we have access to video and on-screen demonstrations of gameplay, from e3.  We did not have such access in the 90's, and limited access pre-youtube, and the adoption of streaming.

 

So for myself, I typically have a very good grasp of what I like, and through watching videos, I can get a very clear indication of what I will experience.  In the early days of pre-orders, I counted on trusted sources to write clear and accurate descriptions of what I would play, and match it to my own, and with hopefully enough photographs to give the right impression.  I'd say it has been a resounding success for me, as I've never picked up a pre-order I didn't enjoy thoroughly.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That said, I'm all for stuff like special boxes, with physical objects inside. Like figurines, cloth maps, buttons, maybe a shirt, a pen. Nothing that gives a gameplay advantage or distinction.

These are the kind I like too. It's why I'm happy to pre-order Atlus titles. Heck those are usually the only games I do pre-order these days. For example, the Legend of Legacy (a 3DS game coming this October) will include a 40 page Artbook and a 10 track cd with the first print, so it's worthwhile to pre-order it on top of the game looking like a lot of fun.

 

I'm not going to jump into this discussion more then I need to, but I will say that some companies handle pre-orders well by including some extra free stuff like Iggy mentioned, while some drop the ball.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Reviews is how you'd know. Waiting for the opinions of others that you trust. I'm glad I didn't pre-order Sonic Boom, a game where SEGA enforced a review embargo that lasted until the day of the release. And those poor bastards who pre-ordered Aliens: Colonial Marines. Plus, you know, in this, the digital age of video games, there is no such thing as a game that will sell out. You'll never, ever run out of digital copies.

 

The only benefit to you are the in-game bonuses, but really, are a few map packs and weapons and skins something you need to have? And if it is, no pre-order bonuses should ever be parts of a game that makes you feel like you'll be missing out on the full experience if you don't get it. That in and of itself is deplorable.

 

And look at all the pre-order fiascos. Evolve was officially announced by a pre-order offer. And those five collector's editions on Watch Dogs and the lovely spreadsheet on Wikipedia that accompanies it that tells you what you'll get with each one. And look at how rosy their receptions were: lukewarm and tepid at best. My favorite in recent memory are the Arkham Knight story packs that last the compelling length of 7 minutes.

 

Speaking of Arkham Knight, I'm sure steam players were glad they pre-ordered it. Just like how the general public was happy the pre-ordered Arkham Origins. You know, the game that will never be completely fixed because the developers wanted to focus on developing the DLC (that's an issue for another day). Angry Joe crapped his pants over the technical issues happening in Battlefield 4, the game he spent over a hundred dollars on for some premium version. Look how well that worked out for him. But hey, at least he got to play it day one, albeit in a broken state, like most games nowadays upon release.

 

Pre-orders are the personification of Fry's "Shut up and take my money" meme. Because you're basically acting like he is by being willing to spend exorbitant amounts of money on a game you haven't seen. And returning it? Most stores will only let you exchange it for another copy. No refunds.

Link to post
Share on other sites

And I forgot. Did you know that GameStop employee's hours are DEPENDENT on them selling as many pre-orders as they can?

 

Yep.  Shame it was Gamestop that bought out Software Etc. and Electronics Boutique, instead of the other way around.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

That said, I'm all for stuff like special boxes, with physical objects inside. Like figurines, cloth maps, buttons, maybe a shirt, a pen. Nothing that gives a gameplay advantage or distinction.

These are the kind I like too. It's why I'm happy to pre-order Atlus titles. Heck those are usually the only games I do pre-order these days. For example, the Legend of Legacy (a 3DS game coming this October) will include a 40 page Artbook and a 10 track cd with the first print, so it's worthwhile to pre-order it on top of the game looking like a lot of fun.

 

I'm not going to jump into this discussion more then I need to, but I will say that some companies handle pre-orders well by including some extra free stuff like Iggy mentioned, while some drop the ball.

 

 

 

Legend of Legacy looks great!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mm that SaGa-esque game.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Gamestop in general is pretty toxic to the industry, so yeah their preordering practices included.

Edited by Fates
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Gamestop in general is pretty toxic to the industry, so yeah their preordering practices included.

You're saying charging $56 for a used copy of a brand new game is toxic? Charging people full price for a game that was opened and used as a display on the floor? Whaaaaaaat?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes and no. Games top to me is getting better and better, with their tablet offerings and junk now.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes and no. Games top to me is getting better and better, with their tablet offerings and junk now.

Other than, you know, selling them, how is GameStop's tablet section so stellar that you can forgive the other 95% of its business?

Edited by eal
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't walk two steps into a Gamestop now without being interrogated about pre-ordering games and amiibos. And the more you say "No thanks," the harder they press you.

 

It's no wonder people like me buy online, or just go to Target or Walmart where they don't give a damn about pre-order culture.

Edited by Mettool
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Gamestop in general is pretty toxic to the industry, so yeah their preordering practices included.

You're saying charging $56 for a used copy of a brand new game is toxic? Charging people full price for a game that was opened and used as a display on the floor? Whaaaaaaat?

 

 

Don't forget they use a legal loophole, by buying a brand new, factory sealed game through a middleman, when that game is VERY popular, then sell it as a used game, so they can charge well over the official street value.

Edited by ignasia7
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't walk two steps into a Gamestop now without being interrogated about pre-ordering games and amiibos. And the more you say "No thanks," the harder they press you.

 

It's no wonder people like me buy online, or just go to Target or Walmart where they don't give a damn about pre-order culture.

And at least at Walmart and Target you can occasionally find some random games. Professor Layton and the Last Spectre for $15? Yes please. A brand new set of GameCube Donkey Kong Bongos? Sure, why not? My local Walmart still has PS2 games. Another has copies of DQ IX. Target is the only store I've been to that sells Vita games. Gravity Rush and MvCU3 at that! Haven't gotten Tearaway yet. I got Watch Dogs for $12 at Best Buy when GameStop still has it for $30. Best deal I've ever gotten at GameStop was P4AU with the pre-order bonuses for $20 because it was the last copy. Edited by eal
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...