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X has treasure chests on the world map AND the "shiny bits" from IX.

 

How does that work?  Are they reset, with random items?  Or are they quest based?

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What's your (now un-)secret opinion on something in the DQ universe that you know that the vast majority of other fans just hate or simply disagree with? Here's my 2:   1. First time names = canon.

Yes, she developed very much. She's a well-rounded character.

Yeah! Dragon Quest is SRS BZNS       ...I like the puns and alliteration and quirky charm.  Makes an enjoyable game even more enjoyable.

Didn't Iggy call us out last time in that black sheep thread, or was it Platty who pointed out what black sheep meant?

 

Well, regardless, I like to think of VI as the black sheep because of the art style. The main characters, several NPC sprites, and the enemies are all pretty unique to the game, and to me the game really stand out amongst the rest of the series because of this. Not in a bad way, mind you.

 

The music plays a part in that decision to. I really like VI's music, as it's the most emotion driven soundtrack in the series IMO. The battle themes are also pretty unique for the series, namely the random battle theme.

 

Take this a with a grain of salt though if you don't agree: tis just an ol' cockney bandit's thoughts.

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I sank like 500 hours into dqix between the Japanese and us version. Plus I got my us version for free since I won that contest

 

 947:34

 

 

This is a similar problem with FF12, I've found.  It's one of THE most profound FF stories ever.  One of the most complex, and all the characters are far more detailed overall, than their contemporaries in other games.

 

 

Did we play the same game? Half the team's bland and all the other characters are just the same as any other Final Fantasy game I've played. The random NPC text was just horrid along with all that. From what I remember, you might have read too much into the story unless you had read about what it would've been.

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I played it, did a couple of post-game quests thanks to my PAR, then I was done with it. :|

 

I still have yet to grind and kill Estark in DQV.

I didn't have to grind to kill him. I'd have to if I wanted the turn limit thing, but he was easy at normal levels, but it took a while.

 

These days, I don't really play games for the story, but I know some people think that it is quite light in that area.

I don't either. Gameplay is everything. Honestly I have a hard time concentrating on story while playing & watching my son or listening to music or watching TV simultaneously.

 

 

Didn't Iggy call us out last time in that black sheep thread, or was it Platty who pointed out what black sheep meant?

 

Well, regardless, I like to think of VI as the black sheep because of the art style. The main characters, several NPC sprites, and the enemies are all pretty unique to the game, and to me the game really stand out amongst the rest of the series because of this. Not in a bad way, mind you.

I'd be insulted you thought it Iggy if not for my Iggy-length post. You know what, let's revisit that in all its glory.

 

Here you go, from 13 months ago:

 

yarc.png

 

I've been watching this thread for a few days trying to think of an intelligent choice. When I realized that intelligence has no bearing on all this, I just went with my gut & I am casting the first vote for DQVI and I'm going to answer Mr RPG here:

 

What do you consider (or what do most people consider) the black sheep of the series?

First off, I think your question was flawed from the beginning. These are two completely different questions. What I think is definitely NOT what most people think (as judged by what I've seen on here over the years and even this poll. But I digress...

 

In my opinion, VI seems to be black sheep.

 

...

 

What about VI is so undesirable to people?

Let me count the ways:

1. Never had a release in the US for the SNES. Yes, this applies to V too, but V got a great fan translation, a PS2 remake, and a new bride added for the DS version. Next to that, DQVI is the bastard step-child. When I finally got around to playing and beating DQV through emulation back in 2003, I of course loved it. Tried out DQVI and didn't. It would be over a year and a half before I played and beat it. Heck, I went out and got Torneko: The Last Hope and played and beat that before I even wanted to get back to DQVI.

 

2. The DS release didn't exactly come hot on the heels of the other two DS rereleases. Heck, I played DQIV on my old G6 card the second it came out in Japan thanks to the English language already being on there. The next year I was replaying DQIV on the real US cart and downloading and playing through DQV completely in Japanese when it came out for the DS. And then... then I took 3 years off gaming. If you look at my signature, it was 3 years before I beat another game, finally DQVI. I think what got me going again was more the fact that my girlfriend worked weekends until 3pm. So, I'd be hanging out at her place all day wondering what to do. Heck, get back into gaming since my love life was back on track, that's what. I played and kind of enjoyed DQVI, but compared to the epicness of DQIX, which I finally restarted and finished next, it didn't hold a candle.

 

3. Amos is a missable character. Damn, one wrong choice and you can't get someone? Someone better than most other characters!? Bad call.

 

4. Terry - don't like him. It actually was a tad sad for me when I found out he was the star of DQM. I thought he was a complete tool in DQVI for going off on his own and not joining up with me until later. And for all that adventuring by himself, why the hell did he suck so bad when he joined me!? UGH!! I don't have a single memory of using him for a single round of a single battle in either the SNES or DS game. Ever. Tool.

 

5. Other than those two people, I couldn't tell you a single character in the game off the top of my head. There was that tough guy... H_____? There was that chick with blonde hair that came and went. Meh.

 

6. Finding stuff was ridiculous. I understand the two worlds thing, but something about that and the flying bed and the underwater and ... it was just too much and it didn't seem all that well put together. I don't know how to say that any other way. Maybe I just needed a strategy guide, because I know DQIX was WAY more involved, yet it didn't bug me.

 

7. The best dressed competitions. They were a little fun for a while, then they became annoyingly tedious and there was really only one way to win. Same with the slime battles. Being on an emulator and using savestates to get myself a metal babble was pretty much the only way to win that. The game didn't reward hard work or grinding with what you wanted. It rewarded luck and only having that exact outfit or that exact monster.

 

8. Couldn't find a good post-game place to grind. Never beat Darthmoore (was that him?)

 

 

 

Now, all that said, DQVI is a DQ game, and that makes it one of the top 10-15 games I've played in my life. Period. And each gamer's experience is totally different than anothers, so there's that. DQII will always be remembered fondly by me. I can't even recall having a problem finding where to go next. Cave to Rhone? Easy. Not an annoyance. Can't even remotely think of why people hate it. Same with DWIV for the SNES. I never questioned the AI in that game. I used Christo ALWAYS. I've said it here a hundred times: you must have been too young or too bad a player not to have him do what you wanted to. I can't think of a single misguided action in a single battle that he performed. Ever. So obviously my experiences are much differnt than the "norm". But there, Mr RPG. No one answered you and no one voted for what you thought they would. I thought it was finally time that someone that believed that DQVI wasn't good stood up and said it.

 

Edit: oh yeah, Hassan.

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Geez, I guess you did post a lengthy response there. You seemed to have learned well, young grasshopper.

 

 

If using the term black sheep in its proper dictionary definition, then IX. IX is the disgrace. Burn it with fire.

Edited by YangustheLegendaryBandit
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This is a similar problem with FF12, I've found.  It's one of THE most profound FF stories ever.  One of the most complex, and all the characters are far more detailed overall, than their contemporaries in other games.

 

 

Did we play the same game? Half the team's bland and all the other characters are just the same as any other Final Fantasy game I've played. The random NPC text was just horrid along with all that. From what I remember, you might have read too much into the story unless you had read about what it would've been.

 

Clearly not.  I don't agree at all.

 

First off, I don't see too much copy-paste between Final Fantasies to claim there are any "generic" contemporary characters that are carried through all Final Fantasies.

 

I recall back in the day people made similar claims about FF7 and FF8's casts, attempting to say that Squall was just a less desirable variant of Cloud, and the two are emo.  Clearly a misrepresentation of both characters.

 

So, in what way do you see FF12's characters bland?  Bland implies there's little to no differentiation, no interesting twists and character development, and that they're all flat.  Except for Penelo, who has limited development, how do you come to this conclusion?  Please, explain how the cast is "just the same as any other Final Fantasy game I've played."  That's quite the blanket statement.  I'd say you weren't paying remote attention, but perhaps you noticed something I did not.

 

That the NPC text was "just horrid," with the insinuation that this is the same for all NPC text.  What do you mean by this?  Is it poor writing in your opinion (the level of writing is far in excess of any Final Fantasy before it, and far more consistent, as well as very clear distinct personalities for various tribes perfectly insync with the geographical and social structure of the various types of human tribal arrangements and social structures that are the basis for them...indicating very solid research, and an expert level of writing).  Is it that the writing lacks any depth, or doesn't seem related to the story, or seems convoluted and all over the place, without any real consistent element to tie them all into one cohesive storyline and/or world?  Or is it, for you, some combination of these elements?

 

I'm really not, as I just replayed it not that long ago.  If anything, I found it has more depth and detail than my last 8 playthroughs.  Perhaps it's more that I've replayed the game more often, and due to my interest in the game, I've simply noticed more?

 

 

Platty's post, all that and a bag of chips...with Queso dip!:

 

 

 

I played it, did a couple of post-game quests thanks to my PAR, then I was done with it. :|

 

I still have yet to grind and kill Estark in DQV.

I didn't have to grind to kill him. I'd have to if I wanted the turn limit thing, but he was easy at normal levels, but it took a while.

 

These days, I don't really play games for the story, but I know some people think that it is quite light in that area.

I don't either. Gameplay is everything. Honestly I have a hard time concentrating on story while playing & watching my son or listening to music or watching TV simultaneously.

 

 

Didn't Iggy call us out last time in that black sheep thread, or was it Platty who pointed out what black sheep meant?

 

Well, regardless, I like to think of VI as the black sheep because of the art style. The main characters, several NPC sprites, and the enemies are all pretty unique to the game, and to me the game really stand out amongst the rest of the series because of this. Not in a bad way, mind you.

I'd be insulted you thought it Iggy if not for my Iggy-length post. You know what, let's revisit that in all its glory.

 

Here you go, from 13 months ago:

 

yarc.png

 

I've been watching this thread for a few days trying to think of an intelligent choice. When I realized that intelligence has no bearing on all this, I just went with my gut & I am casting the first vote for DQVI and I'm going to answer Mr RPG here:

 

What do you consider (or what do most people consider) the black sheep of the series?

First off, I think your question was flawed from the beginning. These are two completely different questions. What I think is definitely NOT what most people think (as judged by what I've seen on here over the years and even this poll. But I digress...

 

In my opinion, VI seems to be black sheep.

 

...

 

What about VI is so undesirable to people?

Let me count the ways:

1. Never had a release in the US for the SNES. Yes, this applies to V too, but V got a great fan translation, a PS2 remake, and a new bride added for the DS version. Next to that, DQVI is the bastard step-child. When I finally got around to playing and beating DQV through emulation back in 2003, I of course loved it. Tried out DQVI and didn't. It would be over a year and a half before I played and beat it. Heck, I went out and got Torneko: The Last Hope and played and beat that before I even wanted to get back to DQVI.

 

2. The DS release didn't exactly come hot on the heels of the other two DS rereleases. Heck, I played DQIV on my old G6 card the second it came out in Japan thanks to the English language already being on there. The next year I was replaying DQIV on the real US cart and downloading and playing through DQV completely in Japanese when it came out for the DS. And then... then I took 3 years off gaming. If you look at my signature, it was 3 years before I beat another game, finally DQVI. I think what got me going again was more the fact that my girlfriend worked weekends until 3pm. So, I'd be hanging out at her place all day wondering what to do. Heck, get back into gaming since my love life was back on track, that's what. I played and kind of enjoyed DQVI, but compared to the epicness of DQIX, which I finally restarted and finished next, it didn't hold a candle.

 

3. Amos is a missable character. Damn, one wrong choice and you can't get someone? Someone better than most other characters!? Bad call.

 

4. Terry - don't like him. It actually was a tad sad for me when I found out he was the star of DQM. I thought he was a complete tool in DQVI for going off on his own and not joining up with me until later. And for all that adventuring by himself, why the hell did he suck so bad when he joined me!? UGH!! I don't have a single memory of using him for a single round of a single battle in either the SNES or DS game. Ever. Tool.

 

5. Other than those two people, I couldn't tell you a single character in the game off the top of my head. There was that tough guy... H_____? There was that chick with blonde hair that came and went. Meh.

 

6. Finding stuff was ridiculous. I understand the two worlds thing, but something about that and the flying bed and the underwater and ... it was just too much and it didn't seem all that well put together. I don't know how to say that any other way. Maybe I just needed a strategy guide, because I know DQIX was WAY more involved, yet it didn't bug me.

 

7. The best dressed competitions. They were a little fun for a while, then they became annoyingly tedious and there was really only one way to win. Same with the slime battles. Being on an emulator and using savestates to get myself a metal babble was pretty much the only way to win that. The game didn't reward hard work or grinding with what you wanted. It rewarded luck and only having that exact outfit or that exact monster.

 

8. Couldn't find a good post-game place to grind. Never beat Darthmoore (was that him?)

 

 

 

Now, all that said, DQVI is a DQ game, and that makes it one of the top 10-15 games I've played in my life. Period. And each gamer's experience is totally different than anothers, so there's that. DQII will always be remembered fondly by me. I can't even recall having a problem finding where to go next. Cave to Rhone? Easy. Not an annoyance. Can't even remotely think of why people hate it. Same with DWIV for the SNES. I never questioned the AI in that game. I used Christo ALWAYS. I've said it here a hundred times: you must have been too young or too bad a player not to have him do what you wanted to. I can't think of a single misguided action in a single battle that he performed. Ever. So obviously my experiences are much differnt than the "norm". But there, Mr RPG. No one answered you and no one voted for what you thought they would. I thought it was finally time that someone that believed that DQVI wasn't good stood up and said it.

 

Edit: oh yeah, Hassan.

 

 

 

Whew, now that's a post even I can be proud of.

 

Hmm, I was using the wikipedia article and more full breadth and scope of the definition as it's typically used.

 

I still think, from an objective perspective, that 10 and 9, then 8 are.

 

However, for myself, we can classify, based purely on just the first definition picked from Dictionary.com

 

black sheep
 
 
noun

: someone who does not fit in with the rest of a group and is often considered to be a troublemaker or an embarrassment

 

 

If we use the Miriam Webster definition, I still have a hard time seeing 6 as one, given the way this is written would infer a more objective perspective, versus the definition written in your dictionary grab, which allows for almost pure subjectivity.  For me, this makes more sense, as it's based on whether someone doesn't fit in, as in they are different of their own accord, from the rest of the pack, not based on whether you personally like or don't like.

 

So...ha!

Edited by ignasia7
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I played it, did a couple of post-game quests thanks to my PAR, then I was done with it. :|

 

I still have yet to grind and kill Estark in DQV.

 

I didn't have to grind to kill him. I'd have to if I wanted the turn limit thing, but he was easy at normal levels, but it took a while.

 

You have to grind to get the map for him unless this is one of the quest rewards ones and not the grind a legacy boss to lvl 16 and pray you get it or even worse "kill a monster that only appears in an S rank dungeon".

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No, Estark in Dragon Quest V, not the grotto deal in DQIX.

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Hahaha didn't expect to reignite the black sheep discussion again.

 

LOL, well, chalk it up to my ego to stick my nose into it just as the point was already starting to die down, and this topic was reverting back to its original heading.

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Unpopular opinion?

Nera and Deborah should not be marriage choices at -all-. Nera has a suitable suitor, and Deborah is secretly already the hero's dom.

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Balthier was a good leading man.

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Hell yeah igna! Get em! FFXII is a masterpiece of the genre.

 

Damn straight it is.  FF12 is my second favourite game of all time.   Sure, there are issues...like I wish we could do multi-layered gambits, kind of like how macros work, and it definitely needs some gambit options, like "If enemy has item", since then I could pop that on top and never have to turn off stealing if I choose for it to be on auto, but eh, it's a damn charming game, with a vibrant world, great characters, and...it's bloody fun to play.  Of all the games I've ever played, only three are always on top, the rest tend to shift spots.

 

1) DQ7

2) FF12

3) RE4

 

FF12 is like...PS4.  It's groundbreaking in so many ways.  It's a very fluid cross-over concept of TB meets Action, that should be reused as there are so many directions to take it in.  Thankfully it HAS been, as some developers definitely have seen the potential.  Sadly not many, but Bioware certainly does, and that speaks volumes for how solid the core concepts are, and how much room for growth is present.  Not to mention...how many political games do you find that aren't basked in overdramatized character nonsense?  So few.  It's refreshing to see a grounded political story that actually builds off the FFT and Vagrant Story approaches...politics, mysticism, and yet realistic characters?  Wow, I want more of that!  I mean my only issue with Vaan is more that he never changes his clothing attire, but then none of them do, though it's a small price to pay, since overall, he's an unappreciated character, and makes a good understudy with his own goals to Balthier and Basch combined.

 

 

Balthier was a good leading man.

 

Indeed, indeed he was.

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Hell yeah igna! Get em! FFXII is a masterpiece of the genre.

Wait a minute. Do I have to go off on my FFXII rant about how it can play itself for long periods of time...?
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I tried playing FFXII two times.  I think that I logged 15-30hrs each time, so I really did give it a shot.  I had really high hopes for that entry because I already loved the world of Ivalice (FFT and Vagrant Story are two of my all-time faves).  I had no problem with the characters and, like many people, especially liked Balthier.  I just couldn't get into the gameplay at all.  That's not to say that it's bad, but I just didn't "get it".  Basically, they lost me when I realized that I equipped my characters with automatic macros (for lack of a better term).  I may even try it again because there were so many things about it that I liked and wanted to like.

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Well, while we're on the subject of Final Fantasy, allow me to share my experience with Final Fantasy VII, hailed as the best game of the series by many, many people...

 

...I put in maybe 6 hours of gameplay and called it good.  I just could not get pulled into the game at all.  I went in with an open mind, ignoring all the hype and all that nonsense that's surrounded the game.  At first, it wasn't bad.  I liked the battle sprites/models for characters as it reminded me of my early days of gaming back on the N64, but...that was about the only thing I honestly liked.  Well, the combat as well, but other than that, nothing.

 

What really threw me off was the translation.  Pardon my French, but holy $#!& does that game have a terrible English translation.  Just...wow.

 

I got to the top of some tower in Midgar, and just stopped.  Couldn't get myself to keep playing if I tried, and it was a waste of $10 on Steam.

 

 

Phew...well, glad to have that off my chest.  Who's up for some Dragon Questing, eh?!?!

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I have never beat FFVII. 

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Hell yeah igna! Get em! FFXII is a masterpiece of the genre.

Wait a minute. Do I have to go off on my FFXII rant about how it can play itself for long periods of time...?

 

You just described every modern offline single player Final Fantasy game since X came out.

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I played Vii but could not beat safer sephoroth and foolishly put the save point past the point of no return. Honestly Vii was not super fun. I enjoyed crisis core more than the original.

 

Back on DQ. I felt that DQV was the black sheep. The SNES version I mean. It was awkwardly different and didn't feel like a DQ game at first. Granted it was the first 16bit game so it's forgivable but I see it as the awkward teen phase of the series. V-VI are prepubescent DQ games IMO

 

I'm just now sitting down now to play DWVII now that I got it back from my friend. I really miss how the wall becomes invisible while behind you so you can see your character. I constantly have to change the camera angle unlike the DS games. Oh well still fun.

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Gotta keep in mind we were not meant to play V. It was not a professional localization, so...

 

 

Not that I'm downing the original team, just saying. I think the SNES version of 6 was more off.

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Gotta keep in mind we were not meant to play V. It was not a professional localization, so...

 

 

Not that I'm downing the original team, just saying. I think the SNES version of 6 was more off.

I actually didn't read into him blaming the translation effort at all. I went straight to thinking he was talking graphics & such.
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Unpopular opinion?

 

Nera and Deborah should not be marriage choices at -all-. Nera has a suitable suitor, and Deborah is secretly already the hero's dom.

 

As much as I adore Debora I have to agree with this.  Bianca really fleshes out the story more.

 

As for my unpopular opinion I don't like Dragon Ball Z so I hate it when my son looks all Super Saiyan on me.  So I marry Debora haha.  I know it contradicts my opinion that Nero and Debora shouldn't be marriage choices but think of the kids!  Who wants ugly blonde-hair children when they look so much cooler with blue (Nera) or black (Debora)-haired children.

 

Also I don't really like Dragon Quest 6.  Don't know why.  Just don't.

 

But I don't like it when someone knocks on Final Fantasy 12.  It's the only decent FF we've had in almost a decade and a half.  Anyone who speaks ill of FF 12 strikes me as a Lightning fanboy!

 

(well not really but still)

Edited by Bob_the_Almighty
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