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mariosmentor

Let's translate DQX!

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I see, so if you do a straight-up literal translation using a program, the sentence structure differences between the two languages will result in translated text that does not make any sense.  That does sound frustrating.

 

To be clear, it's not quite sentence structure per se.  Machine translation (google being the best, bing also good in some cases) do a lot with sentence structure and so forth as well, but translation automatically simply isn't a solved problem, at least not yet.  A big portion of the problem is that some concepts simply don't translate 1-for-1 between two different languages.  For instance, the term/spell "Heal" that we all know and love in English really doesn't have a Japanese counterpart; the term "Hoimi" was coined and used specifically by the game, and has gotten some penetration into the language more generally.  In Japanese in particular, it gets more interesting when you're looking at a set of Kana that could either be translated as a single word, or possibly should be consider phonetically, as if to be a name of a person or place.  Now, computers can use all sorts of heuristics based on context to try to fathom a guess as to which of potentially many reasonable translations is correct, but errors are still quite frequent.

 

It only gets harder when you start looking at all the ways in which figures of speech, plays on words, and the like, just simply don't translate between the two languages perfectly.  Going to next level beyond that, even once you have a good translation that preserves things literally, you then need to think about emotional and stylistic influences, and how different dialects might play into what character/NPC dialogue looks like.  Although a game where every NPC says the same type of things in exactly the same way (e.g. an innkeeper perhaps) is acceptable, it loses a lot of the heart and soul that makes a game good.  By 8 and 9, the DQ series was using a lot of this, as I'm sure you are familiar.

 

Anyway, sorry for such a long wall of text, just wanted to help illuminate a bit on why a project like this is much more complicated than it might seem.

 

When it gets to a point where I'm at least fairly confident it's stable, and not completely crappy, I wouldn't be against releasing a sort of limited beta, but I want to be sure that the folks who are spending the most time helping are also comfortable with my doing that, out of respect.  I can't offer much in the way of a timetable, but I can say that I want to play this game in English as much as the next person... maybe even moreso considering I'm literally working to make that happen :)

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Will any of these patches work on the Wii?

 

No.  I don't know much about hacking the Wii, and don't have plans to try doing so at this time.

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Wow, I didn't know you made THAT much progress. I guess when it comes to Dragon Quest, we Americans will do ANYTHING to bring down that dog-gone language barrier........Maybe I'll write some Dragon Quest parody songs to support you guys.

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Id be one of the ones whod be happy with a simple, standard translations, none of that olde english flair or accents and stuff seen in past DQs, I mean sure, I do love those, but for simplicity sake, standard translation is perfect, whatever takes the least amount of time and effort to do. 

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Now that is some sexy progress. Thanks for sharing those!

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Yeah that is great, just having the menus translated would be a huge help to people.

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Awesome.  I wouldn't mind getting in on the beta, if you are looking for constructive feedback.

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...........Uh, yeah, my head just blew, so could you give me a minute to wash all this brain goop off the walls?

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Just to follow up a bit on the notion of a beta, it's likely we wouldn't release it (outside of those helping work on the project) until we're at least relatively confident we've got everything in a state we're happy with... little bugs like the equipment names looking compressed aren't a big deal, but translations that don't make sense and inconsistent dialogue definitely are.  

 

While I'm sure some folks would love to get an early look at this to play with, there's also the reality--from my perspective-- that I know we're not ready for feedback and testing really either.  Or, to put it another way, if I already know I'm not happy with how some stuff is, there's no point in my having a test just yet, as I'd only be getting people telling me the stuff I already know, and it would just be more of a distraction.

 

All of that said, progress is still good and consistent, pockmarked by a handful of bugs and issues along the way... pretty par for the course.

 

Random question for anyone who has played X for any length of time... in the extended offline campaign, after the tutorial portion, have you ever encountered an issue where any time you try attacking in battle you get a message that translates as (loosely) "You are too far away from your opponent to attack."?  One of the folks working closest with me is experiencing this as he tried to play through the offline campaign, and I don't have much to offer him in the way of suggestions (though I did find a youtube video or two in Japanese demonstrating the same issue?)  Thanks in advance if anyone has thoughts :)

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I got a curious question again, ya may have answered before in another thread but I forgotten, for the Online mode, is their any limitations or blocks that makes NPC dialogue/cutscenes difficult to translate compared to offline mode?

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At this point that is still unknown, but what I do know is that the data file I think is used for online play is subject to pretty frequent updates from patches. The files used for offline haven't been updated in a while, though.

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Random question for anyone who has played X for any length of time... in the extended offline campaign, after the tutorial portion, have you ever encountered an issue where any time you try attacking in battle you get a message that translates as (loosely) "You are too far away from your opponent to attack."?  One of the folks working closest with me is experiencing this as he tried to play through the offline campaign, and I don't have much to offer him in the way of suggestions (though I did find a youtube video or two in Japanese demonstrating the same issue?)  Thanks in advance if anyone has thoughts :)

 

It happens in two cases:

 

1. You selected an action with a target, but you couldn't get close enough to that target before your action timed out. i.e: Got stuck on an enemy for too long trying to reach another to attack. 

2. You selected an action with a target, are close enough to use it, but there is something blocking your path. i.e: Tried to heal an ally, are close enough to cast heal, but there's a pillar in the way.

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I think this translation project may be the best chance that the US will ever be able to play DQX.  The more articles I read about the cost of building data centers to support the potential for US players, the more it sounds like it wouldn't be financially prudent for SquareEnix to invest in it.

 

Here's an example of one of those articles, from back in September:

http://www.technobuffalo.com/2014/09/05/square-enix-would-love-to-bring-dragon-quest-x-to-america/

 

That being said, anyone attempting to tackle translating DQX should be given much needed respect by all western DQ fans.  Thanks for even attempting this.

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Pretty much, thing is SE makes alot of bad decisions over the past half decade.  At this point, the only thing to really do is a large constant translation effort, like what those guys are constantly doing for PSO2.  

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Well, now that I can copy/paste, I'll try posting a more proper transcript for the game, as I apparently got a kanji or two wrong. Maybe start a little slower?

 

Sibling: (Hero)!

ã©ã†ã  ã„ã„ã ã‚ã†!?

ã‚¢ãƒã•ã¾ãŒ ä¹—ã£ã¦ã„ã„ã£ã¦

言ã£ã¦ãã‚ŒãŸã‚“ã ãœ!

ãªã‚ã£, ã‚¢ãƒã•ã¾?

Edited by mariosmentor

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Would this be released in small chunks, or would it all need to be done together? I think just a translation of menus would be immensely helpful. Quests, items, and monsters I can figure out myself using wikis fairly easily, and english dialogue, while it would be nice, is not necessary to play the game, but I still have no idea what 90% of the options in the menus are for.

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It's just random bits of text I'm pulling from cutscenes. What more is to be said?

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It's just random bits of text I'm pulling from cutscenes. What more is to be said?

 

I don't think the reply was specifically directed towards your post.

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Would this be released in small chunks, or would it all need to be done together? I think just a translation of menus would be immensely helpful. Quests, items, and monsters I can figure out myself using wikis fairly easily, and english dialogue, while it would be nice, is not necessary to play the game, but I still have no idea what 90% of the options in the menus are for.

 

In theory, it could be released piece-meal, but I'm not sure if we will actually be open to doing that.  As it stands right now, menus (save for the canned options at shops and the bank) are already all translated, pretty much all the way through.  In fact, a lot more than that is translated, and if one ignores the terrible automated translations that exist for much of the dialog, it's actually quite easy to play through the game.

 

Now, that said, actually doing a patched build that *only* uses translated menus while not touching anything else, is not hard, but a lot of work that I don't know I really want to do.  The least of the problems being that not all menu text is stored together (for various reasons that don't really matter), and many of those texts appear in several different places in the data files.  Actually filtering out my code to only patch certain things feels like a lot of effort that could be better spent on other things.  I apologize in advance, as I realize that probably isn't the answer you wanted to hear.

 

Now, as for a more general update on progress, I found that there are two big gaps which I am not sure if it will be possible to translate at all, but fortunately, they won't affect the ability to play much: Enemy names, and ally names.  In either case, replacing them with translations results in the main PC not being able to target them for attacks or healing spells, respectively.  Plenty of theories on why this happens, and a few ideas for possible workarounds that I have not yet tested, but my assumption--unless I prove otherwise--is going to be that these particular things will simply not be part of the translation.

 

Also worth calling out specifically, is that so far, I have only worried about offline mode.  Though many of the translated text strings can apply to the same text when found in the online mode, I have not yet tried patching the affected files.  Even after the offline mode stuff is ready to go, I'm not sure how the online will go.  It is entirely possible that the software itself will be more aggressive about data file integrity for online play, which may preempt my doing much of anything in the way of translation.  I'm hopeful that is not the case, but even still will leave the pragmatic issue of the relatively frequent patching the online mode stuff receives... at least once every few weeks there's an update, and each time that happens, it would be necessary to re-parse the data files, realign the location of any translations, identify and translated any new text, and rebuild into a new patch.  Certainly possible, but very likely that at least sometimes it will take me a few days turnaround to do so.  I can imagine the impatient hate-mail already ;)

 

When things are at a point where we believe they are working pretty well, and things are mostly the way we want them to be, will be the time to start considering inviting in more people for testing.  Until then, however, just having people unhappy with what is incomplete and reporting broken things I'm already well aware of, would not really be a productive effort.

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Huh, so you guys decided to go with Dragon Warrior spell names, eh...

So weird to me how so many people here are so in favor of those. :/ Ah well. I'm glad there's been great progress despite my disappearance.

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Huh, so you guys decided to go with Dragon Warrior spell names, eh...

So weird to me how so many people here are so in favor of those. :/ Ah well. I'm glad there's been great progress despite my disappearance.

 

That was a strong preference of the individual who has been most helpful to me, so I was happy to go that direction.  For me, it didn't really matter too much either way.  Though, for some of the newer spells that didn't exist in days gone by, we've been having to get creative.

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Dragon Warrior spell names?  Haha, that could be fun.  It's been a while since I cast "hurt" on an enemy.

 

Getting creative with new spell names could be fun too.

 

Fizz = Hurt.

Kafizz = Hurtmore

Kerfrizz = Hurts so Bad Yo Momma Felt it.

 

 

lol

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