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Madrigal

"To Speak Or Not To Speak"

  

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For sure, but that same can be said about when it's being localized. There's only so much the American voice actor can do when the show's already animated, which usually comes after voice recording.

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I know the hero in Dragon Quest V speaks. You can talk to your older self and your younger self.

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Depends on the game I guess, but I prefer silent protagonists since it allows you to insert yourself into the role.

 

Not to beat a dead horse either, but that's one reason why I adore the Etrian Odyssey series.  Your entire party is silent (not counting Story Mode and its cast in Etrian Odyssey Untold) so you get A LOT of room for creativity. You can create their back stories, character traits, and so on if you wish.

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It'd be interesting, but i dont think the main hero/es (the young boy and the blonde girl) should have a voice. Plus in a spinoff like Swords they talked and it was nice (i shall never forget Fleurette's "Mon amie~"). Why not in Heroes too?

I do think there are some instances and some games that it really increases the player to connect with the main character when the hero has his or her own voice and yes, DQ Swords was a nice little diversion with quirky characters!  I enjoyed it immensely!

 

 

I think any game can be improved by good writing and spoken word, but do I trust Japanese developers to deliver either? Not really.  For the most part they are behind the curve in maturity and complexity, settling for campy anime deliveries they are really behind the times. I have read voice actors explaining the difference in voice acting in the east and west.  In the east they tend to have you read the line once, with little context, and move on.

I agree too, there is a lot more depth and complexity that can be added with the spoken word.  I'm not too familiar with the Japanese culture to really give my own assessment of what you say, but you bring up a valid point.

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I know the hero in Dragon Quest V speaks. You can talk to your older self and your younger self.

I found that interesting as the Hero breaks the code of silence.  I was only expecting to get three dots and that's it.

 

 

Depends on the game I guess, but I prefer silent protagonists since it allows you to insert yourself into the role.

 

Not to beat a dead horse either, but that's one reason why I adore the Etrian Odyssey series.  Your entire party is silent (not counting Story Mode and its cast in Etrian Odyssey Untold) so you get A LOT of room for creativity. You can create their back stories, character traits, and so on if you wish.

Well if that's the case, they should just let players have templates to completely customize their characters without giving them a certain outfits or hairstyles and let it be completely original and silent cast.  Almost like a Final Fantasy III ( the original) or (FF) where you pick a nameless person with a class where you can completely role play your character.

 

 

 

Oops sorry for the double post everyone...getting late, need to go to bed lol.

Edited by Madrigal

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Depends on the game I guess, but I prefer silent protagonists since it allows you to insert yourself into the role.

 

Not to beat a dead horse either, but that's one reason why I adore the Etrian Odyssey series.  Your entire party is silent (not counting Story Mode and its cast in Etrian Odyssey Untold) so you get A LOT of room for creativity. You can create their back stories, character traits, and so on if you wish.

Well if that's the case, they should just let players have templates to completely customize their characters without giving them a certain outfits or hairstyles and let it be completely original and silent cast.  Almost like a Final Fantasy III ( the original) or (FF) where you pick a nameless person with a class where you can completely role play your character.

 

 

 

Oops sorry for the double post everyone...getting late, need to go to bed lol.

 

Too bad Final Fantasy III's original NES/Famicom cast talks all the time despite being nameless heroes. Unless you were actually referring to the very first Final Fantasy game, in which case they are a silent bunch.

 

I'm not sure I follow you on your point prior to that, nor do I know if you are familiar with the Etrian Odyssey series, but here's the thing: EO has various job classes you can choose from, each having 2 male and female options with later games adding alternate color schemes for each.  All 4 designs have their own unique characteristics so even though they are blank slates (so to speak) their appearances can help you shape a personality and story for them should you choose to. I've done it with every game in the series, and I find that it makes me more invested in the game's world (and my own party).

 

The point I'm going for is that the series offers you just the right amount of creative freedom, much like Dragon Quest III does: you have job classes (or character designs) that have their own unique looks that can help the player shape a personality for them regardless of whether they speak or not.  I feel this sort of things make a game more investing for the player, but that's just my opinion and must be taken with a grain of salt.

 

Does this mean I think games with all speaking casts are bad? Of course not. I just feel that some games (namely RPGs) handle an all speaking cast better than some.

 

Having said that, I still stand by that I prefer a silent protagonist, even if it's one I wouldn't put myself into their position or "fill their shoes" such as Ness from Earthbound for example.

Edited by YangustheLegendaryBandit

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I agree with Yangus! Also I think that being a silent character one of the facts that make me prefer DQ over FF.

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Depends on the game I guess, but I prefer silent protagonists since it allows you to insert yourself into the role.

 

Not to beat a dead horse either, but that's one reason why I adore the Etrian Odyssey series.  Your entire party is silent (not counting Story Mode and its cast in Etrian Odyssey Untold) so you get A LOT of room for creativity. You can create their back stories, character traits, and so on if you wish.

Well if that's the case, they should just let players have templates to completely customize their characters without giving them a certain outfits or hairstyles and let it be completely original and silent cast.  Almost like a Final Fantasy III ( the original) or (FF) where you pick a nameless person with a class where you can completely role play your character.

 

 

 

Oops sorry for the double post everyone...getting late, need to go to bed lol.

 

Too bad Final Fantasy III's original NES/Famicom cast talks all the time despite being nameless heroes. Unless you were actually referring to the very first Final Fantasy game, in which case they are a silent bunch.

 

I'm not sure I follow you on your point prior to that, nor do I know if you are familiar with the Etrian Odyssey series, but here's the thing: EO has various job classes you can choose from, each having 2 male and female options with later games adding alternate color schemes for each.  All 4 designs have their own unique characteristics so even though they are blank slates (so to speak) their appearances can help you shape a personality and story for them should you choose to. I've done it with every game in the series, and I find that it makes me more invested in the game's world (and my own party).

 

The point I'm going for is that the series offers you just the right amount of creative freedom, much like Dragon Quest III does: you have job classes (or character designs) that have their own unique looks that can help the player shape a personality for them regardless of whether they speak or not.  I feel this sort of things make a game more investing for the player, but that's just my opinion and must be taken with a grain of salt.

 

Does this mean I think games with all speaking casts are bad? Of course not. I just feel that some games (namely RPGs) handle an all speaking cast better than some.

 

Having said that, I still stand by that I prefer a silent protagonist, even if it's one I wouldn't put myself into their position or "fill their shoes" such as Ness from Earthbound for example.

 

Well I forgot FF III actually has dialogue so I guess FF I would suit that a bit more.  I think the silent hero for the type of games you describe are perfect and should be completely be able to be customized like in Elder Scrolls.  What I was meaning that the heroes are dressed and have their own look about them which in a way kind of takes away from the seeing yourself in the hero just a bit.  

 

I do agree DQ III was perfect as you mention for the silent role, but other roles in the series really call for a hero with more dynamic for a powerful story such as DQ V, and possibly DQ VIII since it was like an Anime and would have made the game much more dramatic if the Hero actually got to speak.  Don't get me wrong, I like the game, but that too is an opinion which should also be taken with a grain of salt.

 

 

I agree with Yangus! Also I think that being a silent character one of the facts that make me prefer DQ over FF.

If that's the case, you would like FF I for that reason at least.

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Too bad Final Fantasy III's original NES/Famicom cast talks all the time despite being nameless heroes. Unless you were actually referring to the very first Final Fantasy game, in which case they are a silent bunch.

 

I'm not sure I follow you on your point prior to that, nor do I know if you are familiar with the Etrian Odyssey series, but here's the thing: EO has various job classes you can choose from, each having 2 male and female options with later games adding alternate color schemes for each.  All 4 designs have their own unique characteristics so even though they are blank slates (so to speak) their appearances can help you shape a personality and story for them should you choose to. I've done it with every game in the series, and I find that it makes me more invested in the game's world (and my own party).

 

The point I'm going for is that the series offers you just the right amount of creative freedom, much like Dragon Quest III does: you have job classes (or character designs) that have their own unique looks that can help the player shape a personality for them regardless of whether they speak or not.  I feel this sort of things make a game more investing for the player, but that's just my opinion and must be taken with a grain of salt.

 

Does this mean I think games with all speaking casts are bad? Of course not. I just feel that some games (namely RPGs) handle an all speaking cast better than some.

 

Having said that, I still stand by that I prefer a silent protagonist, even if it's one I wouldn't put myself into their position or "fill their shoes" such as Ness from Earthbound for example.

 

Well I forgot FF III actually has dialogue so I guess FF I would suit that a bit more.  I think the silent hero for the type of games you describe are perfect and should be completely be able to be customized like in Elder Scrolls.  What I was meaning that the heroes are dressed and have their own look about them which in a way kind of takes away from the seeing yourself in the hero just a bit.  

 

I do agree DQ III was perfect as you mention for the silent role, but other roles in the series really call for a hero with more dynamic for a powerful story such as DQ V, and possibly DQ VIII since it was like an Anime and would have made the game much more dramatic if the Hero actually got to speak.  Don't get me wrong, I like the game, but that too is an opinion which should also be taken with a grain of salt.

Madrigal, the way someone would interpret the character based on their design comes down to the player. If I were to show a character's design to 10 random people and asked them what sort of personality they would give to the character, each would have their own take and opinion regardless if some share the same opinion or take on the character and their "personality."  If a character having an established look draws you out of the experience or "seeing'' yourself as said character, then that's fine, but not everyone feels that way. Some people like having a starting template that they can work with, as they can shape it to resemble themselves in certain aspects or go all out and create a unique character of their own from it. It's all how you look at it.

 

Here's the thing about the EO series: in each EO game, I've named one of my members after my real name, as they are the leader for the guild. In the canon I've created just for my own entertainment, they each share the name, but that's it.  They aren't the same person, they aren't the parallel versions of each other, or anything like that. They're all completely different people, having their own unique personality and how they lead their respective guilds. Does this mean I see myself as 4 different personalities/people? No, not at all.

 

I'm not going to touch on the DQ series and it's heroes speaking or not much, but I will say that I think the series does it right in terms of personality for them. Though they remain entirely silent (excluding rare occasions and when they have to answer "yes" or "no"), they do have signs of their own unique personalities while still providing the player plenty of room to give them their own traits as a character. It's just the right mix.

Edited by YangustheLegendaryBandit
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Silent protagonist is fine until you're expected to respond a lot. Then it gets weird because you're in th center of a conversation and you rarely say anything.

Unless it is done like in Devil Survivor 2. Then it is hilarious. And a success.

 

I see what you are saying, but the Heroes in all the Dragon Quest games have the same personality.

Wrong. You will see the light once you play VII.

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Nothing makes me chuckle in Persona 4 more then when I help people make personal, romantic, and career decisions based on the one or two half-constructive things I say to them throughout the entire Social Link. Then, there's all the dramatic confrontations with the near dozen bosses in which everyone in my group declares that we will defeat them no matter the cost and I just stand there with my sword despite the fact they've put their trust in me as their leader and I have nothing to say.

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Sometimes I like Silent protagonists in games (like DQ for example) while other times I feel having a voiced main character can be good.

 

One such example would be the original .Hack Quadrilogy on PS2.

 

 

Kite had many scenes in his adventures where he showed weakness, fear, strength, courage, and a myriad of other emotions. He also showed that emotion through many of his voiced scenes. The dialouge he shared with all of his teammates is what made him who he was.

 

And I wouldnt want it any other way. ^_^

 

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Silent Protagonists are the way.

 

I present to you why protagonists should be silent.

 

Reason N° 1 why I prefer DQVII to FFX.

But it has more to do with the game not acknowledging how ridiculous it is (FFX-2 fixed that).

 

ANnd the fact it wasn't "my story". In this case (at lest for me), it broke the insertion of the game (that, and the ridiculous costumes) and all the emotion I was supposed to have felt flat.

 

 

So what about RPGs such as Final Fantasy VII like Cloud who was extremely popular?  How do you feel about those non-silent heroes?

 

 

I've never played a Final Fantasy game, and I don't really intend to.  Nothing I have heard about the series sounds interesting to me.

 

Final Fantasy VI is an amazing game. I think you'll miss a lot not trying it. 

But that game have no Hero, so to speak, but a lot of heroes, which is what makes it so great.

 

Having the hero speaks in FFIV was also relevant, because Cecil's growth was an important point.

 

It depends, though I grew up to non-speaking ones.

Most of the time, the Hero is the less interresting person of the game (For example, in DQIV when you have Torneko, Alena, and all the other great characters.), and making them the center of the game is not important (In DQIX, for example, it's not you who is important, it's how you affect the others. This is the case in lots of DQ, I feels). 

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Too bad Final Fantasy III's original NES/Famicom cast talks all the time despite being nameless heroes. Unless you were actually referring to the very first Final Fantasy game, in which case they are a silent bunch.

 

I'm not sure I follow you on your point prior to that, nor do I know if you are familiar with the Etrian Odyssey series, but here's the thing: EO has various job classes you can choose from, each having 2 male and female options with later games adding alternate color schemes for each.  All 4 designs have their own unique characteristics so even though they are blank slates (so to speak) their appearances can help you shape a personality and story for them should you choose to. I've done it with every game in the series, and I find that it makes me more invested in the game's world (and my own party).

 

The point I'm going for is that the series offers you just the right amount of creative freedom, much like Dragon Quest III does: you have job classes (or character designs) that have their own unique looks that can help the player shape a personality for them regardless of whether they speak or not.  I feel this sort of things make a game more investing for the player, but that's just my opinion and must be taken with a grain of salt.

 

Does this mean I think games with all speaking casts are bad? Of course not. I just feel that some games (namely RPGs) handle an all speaking cast better than some.

 

Having said that, I still stand by that I prefer a silent protagonist, even if it's one I wouldn't put myself into their position or "fill their shoes" such as Ness from Earthbound for example.

 

Well I forgot FF III actually has dialogue so I guess FF I would suit that a bit more.  I think the silent hero for the type of games you describe are perfect and should be completely be able to be customized like in Elder Scrolls.  What I was meaning that the heroes are dressed and have their own look about them which in a way kind of takes away from the seeing yourself in the hero just a bit.  

 

I do agree DQ III was perfect as you mention for the silent role, but other roles in the series really call for a hero with more dynamic for a powerful story such as DQ V, and possibly DQ VIII since it was like an Anime and would have made the game much more dramatic if the Hero actually got to speak.  Don't get me wrong, I like the game, but that too is an opinion which should also be taken with a grain of salt.

Madrigal, the way someone would interpret the character based on their design comes down to the player. If I were to show a character's design to 10 random people and asked them what sort of personality they would give to the character, each would have their own take and opinion regardless if some share the same opinion or take on the character and their "personality."  If a character having an established look draws you out of the experience or "seeing'' yourself as said character, then that's fine, but not everyone feels that way. Some people like having a starting template that they can work with, as they can shape it to resemble themselves in certain aspects or go all out and create a unique character of their own from it. It's all how you look at it.

 

Here's the thing about the EO series: in each EO game, I've named one of my members after my real name, as they are the leader for the guild. In the canon I've created just for my own entertainment, they each share the name, but that's it.  They aren't the same person, they aren't the parallel versions of each other, or anything like that. They're all completely different people, having their own unique personality and how they lead their respective guilds. Does this mean I see myself as 4 different personalities/people? No, not at all.

 

I'm not going to touch on the DQ series and it's heroes speaking or not much, but I will say that I think the series does it right in terms of personality for them. Though they remain entirely silent (excluding rare occasions and when they have to answer "yes" or "no"), they do have signs of their own unique personalities while still providing the player plenty of room to give them their own traits as a character. It's just the right mix.

 

I think a little of both is good personally, I would like to see more personality come through the hero.

 

 

Silent protagonist is fine until you're expected to respond a lot. Then it gets weird because you're in th center of a conversation and you rarely say anything.

Unless it is done like in Devil Survivor 2. Then it is hilarious. And a success.

 

I see what you are saying, but the Heroes in all the Dragon Quest games have the same personality.

Wrong. You will see the light once you play VII.

 

I want to play it so bad, once I play it I will come back and tell you :)

 

Sometimes I like Silent protagonists in games (like DQ for example) while other times I feel having a voiced main character can be good.

 

One such example would be the original .Hack Quadrilogy on PS2.

 

 

Kite had many scenes in his adventures where he showed weakness, fear, strength, courage, and a myriad of other emotions. He also showed that emotion through many of his voiced scenes. The dialouge he shared with all of his teammates is what made him who he was.

 

And I wouldnt want it any other way. ^_^

 

It's all a mixed bag in the end.  Some heroes really do need to speak up, and some do just fine as the observer.

 

@Holy Slime Knight - I think in DQ IV your point where supporting characters take the center stage for the most part and leave the hero in the silent background.  I doubt King Zenith will change his mind about any FF game, he seems pretty closed to the idea.

Edited by Madrigal
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Silent protagonists rule and are always gonna be better than ones that talk. They are the pinnacle of the term 'Action speaks louder than words.' They aren't edgy, they don't cry about anything, they just get the job done, knowing that every step is closer to victory. It's also the main reason why silent protagonists get chosen as the leader, why have someone who can talk and be undecided on the next course of action when you can have a silent protagonist who just goes straight to where the enemies are.

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Silent protagonists rule and are always gonna be better than ones that talk. They are the pinnacle of the term 'Action speaks louder than words.' They aren't edgy, they don't cry about anything, they just get the job done, knowing that every step is closer to victory. It's also the main reason why silent protagonists get chosen as the leader, why have someone who can talk and be undecided on the next course of action when you can have a silent protagonist who just goes straight to where the enemies are.

Because they sound like robots, if a player wants to just mindlessly play a game with little story and just enjoy the game fine, but if a player wants to see a human character than that kind of protagonist may not be what the player wants.  It all boils down to whether you want an involved story line with dynamic characters or flat cybernetic heroes with little to no emotion for the most part.

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Because they sound like robots, if a player wants to just mindlessly play a game with little story and just enjoy the game fine, but if a player wants to see a human character than that kind of protagonist may not be what the player wants.  It all boils down to whether you want an involved story line with dynamic characters or flat cybernetic heroes with little to no emotion for the most part.

(Kind of) Indeed. And preliminar results from the poll tells us exactly the players mostly want.

 

But if you feel the heroes are cybernetic and emotionless, that is your loss. You simply were not wired to find the emotional responses other of us could. We have to find them in the way the NPCs or party members react to what the hero says and does (and yes, they do say and do a lot).

 

I truly wish you someday develop he ability to find this, since it seems you are missing a lot on these games.

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For me, it depends on the game.

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There are a few examples of hero's speaking in Dragon Quest games, even in Dragon Quest 5. In that case though, it's kind of a special case and definitely required for the plot. Also, in Dragon Quest 1, we have this...

 

“I cannot,” said Hero. “If ever I am to rule a country, it must be a land that I myself find.”

 

Aside from these rare occurrences though, it's best that hero's don't talk. 'cause when they do...

 

ShutUp.png

So what about RPGs such as Final Fantasy VII like Cloud who was extremely popular? How do you feel about those non-silent heroes?
Ick. FFVII. Just, Ick. And Cloud? Ick. Ick. Ick. That's how I feel about that. Ick.

 

So what about RPGs such as Final Fantasy VII like Cloud who was extremely popular? How do you feel about those non-silent heroes?

 

I've never played a Final Fantasy game, and I don't really intend to. Nothing I have heard about the series sounds interesting to me.
Really? Because the first 6 were extremely good! And I really liked FFX for some reason. The battle system was enjoyable.

Silent protagonist is fine until you're expected to respond a lot. Then it gets weird because you're in th center of a conversation and you rarely say anything.

All this talk and no one has brought up that our hero does talk in DQ games, we just can't see the dialogue. Plenty of times the screen says "_______ explains their dilemma to the king." I never thought of them as "silent", it's just that we get to pretend what's said instead of picking words.

I mean do you really suspect the DQV Hero just pointed at his prospective wife?

Edited by Plattym3

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Because they sound like robots, if a player wants to just mindlessly play a game with little story and just enjoy the game fine, but if a player wants to see a human character than that kind of protagonist may not be what the player wants.  It all boils down to whether you want an involved story line with dynamic characters or flat cybernetic heroes with little to no emotion for the most part.

(Kind of) Indeed. And preliminar results from the poll tells us exactly the players mostly want.

 

But if you feel the heroes are cybernetic and emotionless, that is your loss. You simply were not wired to find the emotional responses other of us could. We have to find them in the way the NPCs or party members react to what the hero says and does (and yes, they do say and do a lot).

 

I truly wish you someday develop he ability to find this, since it seems you are missing a lot on these games.

 

See, this man gets it. Thank you Cesar. Just thank you.

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Because they sound like robots, if a player wants to just mindlessly play a game with little story and just enjoy the game fine, but if a player wants to see a human character than that kind of protagonist may not be what the player wants.  It all boils down to whether you want an involved story line with dynamic characters or flat cybernetic heroes with little to no emotion for the most part.

(Kind of) Indeed. And preliminar results from the poll tells us exactly the players mostly want.

 

But if you feel the heroes are cybernetic and emotionless, that is your loss. You simply were not wired to find the emotional responses other of us could. We have to find them in the way the NPCs or party members react to what the hero says and does (and yes, they do say and do a lot).

 

I truly wish you someday develop he ability to find this, since it seems you are missing a lot on these games.

 

The most touching stories for me have been the ones where the hero was silent through most of the game.

Paper Mario (Galaxy for the story book)

Persona (2 and 3 hit me hard)

Dragon Quest

Zelda (Esp OoT ending)

Earthbound etc etc

 

Having the hero silent for some reason brings more charm to the world and characters, like as if the writers have more time to create better and unique characters through the adventure rather than spend most time trying to have the main character to all the talking and thinking and such perhaps it's cause we suddenly pay more attention to the world as well.

It's why Party Chat in Dragon Quest is the greatest thing to be put into a JRPG, it pretty much allows the hero to never talk at all and instead let you listen and appreciate your party and see what kind of characters they are (Which funny enough fleshes out the main hero a bit as well but still allow to you have an imagination on what the hero is like).

Edited by Daft Slime

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I still say it depends on the game tho.

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Because they sound like robots, if a player wants to just mindlessly play a game with little story and just enjoy the game fine, but if a player wants to see a human character than that kind of protagonist may not be what the player wants.  It all boils down to whether you want an involved story line with dynamic characters or flat cybernetic heroes with little to no emotion for the most part.

(Kind of) Indeed. And preliminar results from the poll tells us exactly the players mostly want.

 

But if you feel the heroes are cybernetic and emotionless, that is your loss. You simply were not wired to find the emotional responses other of us could. We have to find them in the way the NPCs or party members react to what the hero says and does (and yes, they do say and do a lot).

 

I truly wish you someday develop he ability to find this, since it seems you are missing a lot on these games.

 

I was being a bit more exaggerated with that post discussing the point about not having a hero display any emotion at all through the spoken word, I apologize for that. If I didn't get something out of these games, I wouldn't like them so much.  My point for that post was in regards to an anime, if a main character never spoke, it would seem extremely dull.  

My true main point of this thread, perhaps I should have been a bit clear, was to get people to think how the game would be different or what the heroes might say had they been given spoken dialogue.

 

I do need to play DQ VII so I can see what you're talking about.  The heroes in the different games do have different situations, but for the most part, they do seem to have almost identical personalities-- at least that's what I get from them.  Through these games though I could only guess about what the hero would be thinking in certain situations which isn't such a bad thing.Please don't take this as me assaulting the series, because I am not.  

 

I think I can say this, in RPGs in general.  You don't want to have a blabber mouth of a hero saying cheesy or silly things, but at the same time you don't want them being 100% silent.  I find most people do like having that happy medium there.

Edited by Madrigal
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I need a mod to delete this post, my internet connection when I posted previously was lagging bad.

Edited by Madrigal

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I've found in my time playing RPGs that games in which the protagonist can speak tend to have more dramatic moments in them. Mostly because a lot of what they have to overcome to defeat the enemy and save the world has less to do with being the chosen one and simply being about being able to overcome their own self-doubt, which isn't a problem for most silent protagonists because they don't have many noticeable emotional qualities to speak of. I mean, play Ni no Kuni or Fire Emblem Awakening to see what I mean.

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