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Can We Have A Discussion About Localizations?


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Proshall, I disagree that IV's countries were "totally different". If you go by the (worst of all, IMO) DS translation, it may appear so. But Arena's country was as medieval as the rest. Bateauland was medieval. Branca and Endohr were medieval. Stanciara was medieval. Monbarbara was perhaps the most different (even though Havaria was medieval, too). But it seemed more gypsy/ Roma/ Spanish than the "French" they forced on it just to use their "Laissez-Faire" pun.

 

Mimas, as always seems to be the case, I agree with you (let it be known that Mimas can speak for me whenever I am not around; her word will have value as if it were my own; even moreso, since she knows so much more than I do). The beautiful Dragon Quest VII is what I think of when people say we "need" the new translations to have humor on the games. VII is a perfect mix of sad and funny, when it has to be either (unlike the new ones). And its party chat was perfect the way it was; please do not let the new butchers anywhere near it.

 

And "adapting" to a country is awful for other countries, as you said. In Spain, Kandata was changed to "Luis Candelas". Wiki tells me this is a famous Spanish thief who took pride in never killing people. While this fact would be interesting in itself, and I would happily look for it if I were watching a Spanish series (like "Aida", which I love and has a lot of Spanish culture in it), in terms of Dragon Quest, I do not care about Luis Candelas at all. Leave him out of my games...

 

Saigan, I agree with what you said as long as you do not imply it applies to the new translations. As others said before me, they did not just adapt whatever jokes would not work. They simply added jokes where none fit.

 

Erdrick, I do not think the new ones really try to match Horii-sama's humor. That sounds like what they may have told him. But remember these teams are proud of leaving their own mark on the "humor" of the games. A lot of their work goes to searching for puns they can use (force) on the script. Again, VII proved that respecting Horii's jokes works.

 

About spell names, as someone who grew up with Dai no Daibôken, I prefer the original Japanese spells. They sound great!

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Well, first of all, I'm still new to Dragon Quest. I've only beaten the DQ5. I'm playing DQ4 now and DQ3 for the SNES, off and on. My girlfriend also just purchased DW7 for the PS1 for me, and it shou

A lot of the changes for sake of localization seem so damn arbitrary though, or at worst feels like they're trying to one up the original japanese version.   For example, does changing Barbara to As

I agree with Megalosaro, I feel they make many unnecessary changes, such as Henry to Harry, Santa Rosa to Whealbrook, Flora to Nera, and Ludman to Briscoletti. Also, when trying to improve translation

I think it's a little...dumb to have a fantasy world feature countries that heavily influenced by earth cultures. I mean...Josef Starling?? C'mon.

 

And when I was playing DQ5, near the end, The Zenith Dragon's human form was named Dr. Agon. Certainly this was a localization change, right?

 

What was changed about Pankraz's death in DQ5?

 

I don't like that the localization team thinks themselves to be better writers than the creators of the game. After reading a LOT, the past day or so, I feel like most of the changes in the most recent games have been unneeded. Were there really this many puns in the Japanese versions?

 

So, Briscoletti had a different name, originally? Was he even Italian based? Because it seems that the Italian-ish background has a pretty large influence on the story of him and Mostroferatto.

 

I don't mind the accents in DQIV, in that I have no problem reading them, but it seems that most people would. Doesn't that seem to defeat the purpose of changing the literal translations, in the first place? And it doesn't make any sense that Alena and her family would speak in broken English when she is surrounded by her fellow countrymen. Shouldn't they all be speaking the same language? It makes them seem like they are all barely literate and undereducated.

 

I don't mind that they change monster names. If the Japanese names were puns, originally, the literal translations wouldn't have made any sense, in English anyway. I feel the same way about spell names, as well.

 

But, if I understand correctly, they are changing peoples names, background stories, and the way they interact.

 

Maybe I'm not understanding correctly?

 

Sent From My Galaxy Note 2 Running VanillaRootBox

 

 

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I don't really see a problem with the changing of character's names, as it doesn't change the story in the long-term, they're just names.

 

I enjoy both Inferno and Frizz, and don't prefer one over the other.

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Erdrick, I do not think the new ones really try to match Horii-sama's humor. That sounds like what they may have told him. But remember these teams are proud of leaving their own mark on the "humor" of the games. A lot of their work goes to searching for puns they can use (force) on the script. Again, VII proved that respecting Horii's jokes works.

 

I don't think you understood what I meant. I was saying what you said there, pretty much.

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And when I was playing DQ5, near the end, The Zenith Dragon's human form was named Dr. Agon. Certainly this was a localization change, right?

 

What was changed about Pankraz's death in DQ5?

 

So, Briscoletti had a different name, originally? Was he even Italian based? Because it seems that the Italian-ish background has a pretty large influence on the story of him and Mostroferatto.

 

Yeah, Zenith Dragon's human form is something like Pusan in the Japanese.  It's certainly not the spoilerific Dr Agon.  Papas' death was made less serious and impactful by the dialog changes.  It should be devastating, but the tone was changed radically.  I should try to dig up the text dump of that scene and compare it to the PS2 script.

 

Briscoletti was originally Ludman, and he wasn't italian-based as near as I could tell.

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I don't like that the localization team thinks themselves to be better writers than the creators of the game.

 

This is not true.

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I don't like that the localization team thinks themselves to be better writers than the creators of the game.

 

This is not true.

 

Are you saying he does like that the localization team thinks themselves to be better writers than the creators of the game?

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I enjoy both Inferno and Frizz, and don't prefer one over the other.

That's the problem. Infernos != Frizz. It wasn't a fire spell at all! Infernos were wind-based spells!
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I actually thought Infernos WAS Fire-based back on the NES days. I was proven wrong later. XD

 

It did grow on me tho. Such a shame it cant compare to the Breath spells in the monster series. Only Hellblast and Big Bang can do that. I thought about adding Hellflame to the mix as well. Being more powerful than Whitefire.

 

What do you guys think?

Edited by Tesla
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Are you saying he does like that the localization team thinks themselves to be better writers than the creators of the game?

 

He is, I'm not. Seriously, kids. Read my interview. Pass it along. It's good!

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FRIZZ CAN GO DIE IN A FIRE.

 

On another note, I wanna play DQ5 on my Ouya now. :( (( SNES. ))

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  Those are all things that sound perfectly acceptable in English in the first place and were changed for the sake of change.  And unfortunately the new localizations are full of that sort of arbitrary change.  

 

 

 

 

 

I don't like that the localization team thinks themselves to be better writers than the creators of the game.

 

Comments like this are a pet peeve of mine. You may dislike the changes that are made in localization but they are made for a reason. They are not arbitrary. There is no Big Wheel of Localization Changes at SE of America. If you believe the translators think they are above the writers they are translating, then you may just have a gross misunderstanding of how localization works. 

 

As for faithfulness and translations, I'll just leave this here.

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I thought about adding Hellflame to the mix as well. Being more powerful than Whitefire.

 

What do you guys think?

I think it is now called something like "c-c-c-cold breath"... How cool is that?

 

Dwaine, I loved the interview. It is very interesting to learn more of the process. I would even push for this team to be hired for any new (emphasis of "new") RPGs developed out there. Though I did not like some of the lines that imply they are big fans of their own humor and would use it all if left uncheked, and that jokes are simply put in just like that:

 

...the one-off, throwaway jokes just come out in the writing.

 

Oh, the great comedic gems that have been rejected over the years!

 

We believe the names we've come up with over the years suit the settings of the game better.

 

...of course, the sword-themed naming was (in our opinion) a nice touch. [at least he said it was only in his opinion; my opinion is that the original names were perfectly usable and the change is unnecessary and kind of dumb, since now everyone is named as a sword (having people named as condiments is fine if the creators wanted it that way; having people named as swords is not fine if the creators had other names for them).]

 

The underlying chess theme [...] came about from us joking about how choosing between Bianca and Nera [argh] was an easy, black and white decision. [so, obviously, Flora HAD to be renamed as Nera; dumb Japanese creators, why did they not do it in the first place?]

 

Every now and then we allow ourselves a bit more freedom because the joke's just so strong! [Those are the worst cases, guys; perhaps you should not be allowing yourselves that much freedom, after all... Again, in my opinion...]

 

[About ruining the mood of Papas's death scene] I think this is an area where the criticism carries a little more weight. [A little? As compared to no weight at all? So we are wrong for wanting the mood and names of the game to be respected and our criticism is just akin to throwing a tantrum? Well, sometimes we do throw them, but the points are not less valid.]

 

I think the only people who really like the traditional "let's Hepburn-romanise all these Japanese names and onomatopeia" approach are those who've become used to it already. [What? First, let's not try to make it sound like an insult or as the worst thing in the world. Then, it is not "just Hepburn-romanise" any names. In DQ IX, they could have gone into all the research they are so proud of doing to realize what a perfect equivalent of the Japanese phonetic MIRE~YU can be: Mireille. Let's not go into Barbara, Flora or the most of the cast from DQ IV... And they apparently fell in love with the "all spell names are just onomatopeia" explanation (which is only true for some of them) and use it to force names like "whoosh"... While some spells in Japanese are based on how they write sounds, anyone who has heard the practical application of them could see the spell casters are not saying them like just sounds (I really like how they sound like magic words in the CDs and animated series, EVEN in Spanish dubs, nothing beats "Merazoma" or "Gigadeiiiiiiiin"). If I were a wizard in a world where the spells are "Oomph", "Crackle" and so, I would be very ashamed of using my power in public. Even "Zim zala bim" is better, since it does not sound like a chair breaking.]

About "regional variation" making a more believable RPG world... I could perhaps agree until I realized what they meant as "variation"...

 

And, just to be clear, I do not like that they are being sent hate mail. No one should ever be sent hate mail. Talking bad of them here may be fine, but that does not mean we will wish them harm, especially not telling that to them directly.

 

As proof I do not hate them, I can say I liked the Lassie comment. And I can see how it can really be difficult to work with characters' whose speech is not depicted (when the characters themselves are not "mute", since they can clearly speak just fine, we just cannot read what they say).

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Tesla, on 10 Oct 2013 - 03:23 AM, said:snapback.png

I thought about adding Hellflame to the mix as well. Being more powerful than Whitefire.

 

What do you guys think?

I think it is now called something like "c-c-c-cold breath"... How cool is that?

 

Dwaine, I loved the interview. It is very interesting to learn more of the process. I would even push for this team to be hired for any new (emphasis of "new") RPGs developed out there. Though I did not like some of the lines that imply they are big fans of their own humor and would use it all if left uncheked, and that jokes are simply put in just like that:

 

Thats Whiteair you are thinking of. Not Hellflame.

 

And I'm not using the newer spell names. Here's the spell names I have so far if you are interested:

 

Fireball>Firebane>Firebolt>Firestorm

 

Icebolt>Snowstorm>Blizzard>??? (TBD)

 

Infernos>Infermore>Infermost>??? (TBD) (I may change the name of this spell series if enough people ask for it)

 

Zap>Thordain>Hellblast

 

Fire Air>Blaze Air>Scorching>White Fire>Hellflame

 

Frigid Air>Ice Air>Icestorm>White Air>Heavenly Breath

 

Thats all I got for now.

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From looking at Dwaine's interviews and reading forum posts, I get the idea that most of the jokes and such are a result of localization, correct?

 

Sent From My Galaxy Note 2 Running VanillaRootBox

 

 

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Tesla, on 10 Oct 2013 - 03:23 AM, said:snapback.png

I thought about adding Hellflame to the mix as well. Being more powerful than Whitefire.

 

What do you guys think?

I think it is now called something like "c-c-c-cold breath"... How cool is that?

 

Dwaine, I loved the interview. It is very interesting to learn more of the process. I would even push for this team to be hired for any new (emphasis of "new") RPGs developed out there. Though I did not like some of the lines that imply they are big fans of their own humor and would use it all if left uncheked, and that jokes are simply put in just like that:

 

Thats Whiteair you are thinking of. Not Hellflame.

 

And I'm not using the newer spell names. Here's the spell names I have so far if you are interested:

 

Fireball>Firebane>Firebolt>Firestorm

 

Icebolt>Snowstorm>Blizzard>??? (TBD)

 

Infernos>Infermore>Infermost>??? (TBD) (I may change the name of this spell series if enough people ask for it)

 

Zap>Thordain>Hellblast

 

Fire Air>Blaze Air>Scorching>White Fire>Hellflame

 

Frigid Air>Ice Air>Icestorm>White Air>Heavenly Breath

 

Thats all I got for now.

 

 

 

For ice spells, wasn't ice spears an ability in Dragon Warrior 3? Could use that for part of the branching. Also, a fangame of Dragon Warrior has names like "Arctic Blast," and "Absolute Zero" as the next steps above Blizzard. (Blizzard>Arctic Blast > Absolute Zero)

 

For the wind spells, I've heard of Inferall somewhere, but unsure if it was from a fan game. Other ideas from prviously mentioned fangame went Infermost>TornadicWind>FifthWind

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Infernos>Infermore>Infermost>??? (TBD) (I may change the name of this spell series if enough people ask for it)

May I suggest Pneumos, Pneumore, Pneumost, Pneumax... :)
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Infernos>Infermore>Infermost>??? (TBD) (I may change the name of this spell series if enough people ask for it)

May I suggest Pneumos, Pneumore, Pneumost, Pneumax... :)

 

Pneumos? I dont get it. XD

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It's a trick!

He was leading up to Paramore, which leads to this thread becoming nothing but Hayley gifs.

 

tumblr_m22mn0sSpC1rqvshbo1_500.gif

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It's no trick... pneumo- is a prefix for wind. :-/

Didnt know about Pneumo until now.

 

The more you know. *CNN Jingle*

 

 

But I like Infernos...

 

Well we'll have to see. I'm sure not that many people will care in the long run.

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While I'm here, you kids are free to pass the interview around. Tis a fine article. Go to the social networks. Go to the forums. Go to the blogs...and spread it around like wildfire!

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Well we'll have to see. I'm sure not that many people will care in the long run.

I'm probably the only person that really cares. I just think it's the worst translation ever, even moreso than anything they did in DQ8 or any of the DS games. Infernos sounds like it would have been a fire spell. This is clearly something that has been bothering me for a long, long time, hahaha.
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