Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Gagarin

Who wrote this rant?

Recommended Posts

This is an awful wiki article. I was one of those long time fans who played Dragon Warrior 1, 2, 3 and 4 on the NES and loved every single minute of them. I was one of those fans who was crushed when Dragon Warrior 5 was nixed. I was one of those fans who gobbled up Dragon Warrior 1, 2, and 3 on the GBC and absolutely adored Dragon Warrior 7 when it came out. Yet I also absolutely adored everything about Dragon Quest 8 when it was released. Why do people make such broad generalizations like this? (rhetorical question) And why, oh why, are we still bashing this new localization trend? ('nother rhetorical question) Some people like it. Some people don't. The ones who like it will probably always like it. The ones who don't like it probably never will. Can we just drop it already? (last rhetorical question) *sigh*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never understood who gets to decide what is more faithful or less faithful to the source. people keep saying that. "OH it's CLOSER to the original..." The source wants an easy to pick up game that is also full of enjoyment and some depth...a mountain to climb with rewards along the way. BUT easy to acsess. That's the authors intent. Names, and all the rest, serve that.

 

Original made up Japanese spell names romanized in a US release? (Mahyadedesu!) Terrible idea. At least for the DQ audience.

 

If you're going with jibberish at least make it jibberish an English speaker is familiar with -omonatapea and familiar sort of words and syllables (which they did with Kacrackle, for better or worse.) I still have a hard time remembering what whack or swoosh are...but the modern games include spell descriptions on the UI.

 

This is why I do not mourn Firebal Fireban or Infernos and Infermore or Infermost. Those lovely self describing and very wooden names served their purpose before the era of the description box.

 

Explodet was pretty cool sounding, though. And so were the rare spell names like Mandante which the fan translations used. I think Outside and Return are better than Zoom and Evac (Evac just reeks of the days of four character limits ala Phantasy Star!) But these changes don't get in the way at all.

 

I still hate Count Uptaten. With passion.

 

But on the other hand, I also think Loto is a terrible name for a hero in an American or English language release. Roto is better. L is more feminine than R. ...my impression. LoLo was also a furry round creature who had a puzzle game. BUT Roto rooter is who you call when your drain backs up. All things considered, Erdrick is a pretty effective name for a hero straight outa the pages of a fantasy book or D&D game (which is the original intent).

 

I'd love to say that, wow, we had some puns and some tone breaking names and jokes...but at least all the kids are wearing their slime backpacks to school and I have ten people who exchanged StreetPass with.

 

Alas, but not all the changes have been good, but not all the changes have been bad either, you know?

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NOT me.

 

And you had the choice of being either male or female in DQ3, while Loto may have been canonically male, could've been female, so the ultimate "Hero" title was put that to make it sound feminine, IF you were female, I guess.

 

I don't like Erdrick. Never have, never will.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What you're looking at is a page that had been around before the merger, when the wikia-based wiki was really, really bad.

 

Good lord, was it bad.

 

But yeah, this is more something that'd probably be better identified than a column than an article. I probably shouldn't say more though since I haven't contributed anything to the wiki in months, so I'm not really in a position to be offering suggestions.

 

If it's any condolence, the user that posted this only has contributions tied to this article, so he / she only really stuck around to gripe and not do much else. And that was some 4 years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not me, either.

 

Although I really disagree with the notion that using the Japanese spell names would be bad. Those are the ones I grew up with and, believe me, listening to a wizard cast "mahyadedos" (マヒャデドス) sounds so much cooler than having him say something like "crack", or "oomph", or "poof", or "frizz", or... I can only imagine how ridiculous Dai no Daibôken would have been had they used those new sounds as magic words.

 

I am still not in agreement on how some things are done on this Wiki. An example can be seen in this text:

The lesser demon (originally Vulgarian)...

 

"Originally" is used throughout the Wiki to refer to old translation names, not to what I see as the real original, Japanese names. Very rarely are those mentioned (while I think those should be the base of everything so categorizing is done correctly). And when those are mentioned, it is often erroneously, as in the heros' pages, where it is mentioned the "Japanese name" is "Hiiro" (ヒーロ), which has never been the case (instead, they are "hero" in the sense of "protagonist", which is "shujinkô" (主人公), or else, in some cases, "yûsha" (勇者, when meant as a character class).

 

I think a lot of work has to be done, and not only in getting rid of the "editorial" style of articles such as the one on the original post, but also to clearly reference Japanese data (which is always the source and more accurate). Other wikis do this, and I find them more useful because of it.

 

Let us not be the fandom that stays enclosed in a tiny area without desire to grow and get better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NOT me.

 

And you had the choice of being either male or female in DQ3, while Loto may have been canonically male, could've been female, so the ultimate "Hero" title was put that to make it sound feminine, IF you were female, I guess.

 

I don't like Erdrick. Never have, never will.

 

No, Loto is a bad idea... In french speaking countries, it's a game close to bingo. That's god for endless casino games pun, but not really for a hero.*

(Though, hearing him say "Loto. Who's next ?" after each battle would be fun.)

Roto is perfectly OK, though... I also think

 

I also hate Malroth name for the awful pun made with his name. (A pun based on burp... yeah...

( 'cause "roth", or more precisely [rot] sounds like the french verb for burp))

 

I generally like the translation of the new games, though...

They may overdo the pun, but I become habituated to the change eventually...

Edited by Holy Slime Knight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOTO LOTO LOTO LOTO LOTO! LOTO FOREVER!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They may overdo the pun, but I become habituated to the change eventually...

 

And that is part of the problem, too. I roll my eyes when I see people saying "Carver" or "Ashlynn" instead of the real names.

 

And, Ryu, I also prefer "Roto" (it is even readable that way in a lot of merchandise).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I grew up with Loto, as I didn't play the NES versions of DW. Forever Loto.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Originally" is used throughout the Wiki to refer to old translation names, not to what I see as the real original, Japanese names. Very rarely are those mentioned (while I think those should be the base of everything so categorizing is done correctly). And when those are mentioned, it is often erroneously, as in the heros' pages, where it is mentioned the "Japanese name" is "Hiiro" (ヒーロ), which has never been the case (instead, they are "hero" in the sense of "protagonist", which is "shujinkô" (主人公), or else, in some cases, "yûsha" (勇者, when meant as a character class).

Erm... thaaaaaat would be my fault. I had been using that phrasing when I was regularly contributing. Sorry about that. A better wording would probably be '(Vulgarian in previous translations)'.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What you're looking at is a page that had been around before the merger, when the wikia-based wiki was really, really bad.

 

Good lord, was it bad.

 

But yeah, this is more something that'd probably be better identified than a column than an article. I probably shouldn't say more though since I haven't contributed anything to the wiki in months, so I'm not really in a position to be offering suggestions.

 

If it's any condolence, the user that posted this only has contributions tied to this article, so he / she only really stuck around to gripe and not do much else. And that was some 4 years ago.

Well, that is helpful to know the author didn't stick around too long.

 

A wiki project like this is an incredible undertaking. I applaud people's efforts, but it must be hard to stick to facts from the games and official guidebooks and not form opinions or guesses about some topics.

 

For instance, I recently got the Japanese Monster Encyclopedia and even though I can't read it, the pictures and organization have told me a lot. Like that the Evil Eye monster from DQ2 is NOT the same as the Inspector monster from DQ5 even though they look practically identical, and even though the Dark Eye from DQ2 IS the same as the Dark Eye from DQ5. For whatever reason (probably because the Japanese names are different) the Evil Eye monsters in those two games are not listed together as the same monster in the Encyclopedia, they have separate entries. Even more bizarre is that the DQ2 Evil Eye happens to be the same as the Heyedra monster in DQM:J2 -- which is UPSIDE-DOWN! How crazy is that?!? I must admit, I'm a fan of a pretty insane game. LOL

 

"Originally" is used throughout the Wiki to refer to old translation names, not to what I see as the real original, Japanese names. Very rarely are those mentioned (while I think those should be the base of everything so categorizing is done correctly). And when those are mentioned, it is often erroneously, as in the heros' pages, where it is mentioned the "Japanese name" is "Hiiro" (ヒーロ), which has never been the case (instead, they are "hero" in the sense of "protagonist", which is "shujinkô" (主人公), or else, in some cases, "yûsha" (勇者, when meant as a character class).

Erm... thaaaaaat would be my fault. I had been using that phrasing when I was regularly contributing. Sorry about that. A better wording would probably be '(Vulgarian in previous translations)'.

 

Don't beat yourself up too much. You tried. That's more than I can say for me. For the longest time I thought Slime Knights were "original" to DW7 and Hacksauruses were "original" to DQ8. Little did I know that they were first introduced in those until-now Japanese exclusives DQ5 and DQ6. *shrugs* We do the best we can with the information we have. I just don't think people should generalize or editorialize like this author did. And that's another of my two cents. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I get growing up with something. But for accessibility, I think most English speakers can't really wrap their heads around or relate to romanized Japanese words. This sounds awful, but they look alike/sound alike because English speakers (monolanguage, I confress, in America) don't run into words that look or sound that way. It's a great effect if you're trying to create an "otherness" but it's not helping someone pick up and play the game.

 

It's one of the flaws with Pankaraz*. I have no idea how to spell that or what that's supposed to sound like. Papas I can "get" right away. Mahyadedos I have no idea how it's supposed to sound, I can guess how to pronounce it (and do it wrong), and it will stick with me forever. I don't see those kinds of vowel/consonant combinations, ever. Many others don't, either. Dai no Daibôken never made it beyond fansubs as far as I know. But the whole genre or idea of shouting out spell names is silly enough to begin with. It's a kids show and it's funny and silly and entertaining (and also a little thoughtful, too, from what I've seen).

(*I know this is the English DS localization, but just for example with "strange" looking words.)

 

The fact that so many variations are possible for people to 'get used to' I think just underscores that regions and cultures are different and why localization is important.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That text change, from "originally" to "in previous translations" would be perfect. It would allow for Japanese names to be added when there is a chance.

 

I know it would be hard to adapt to foreign things when one has not been exposed to them. That is a very good reason to start the exposure. One can only get better when learning more languages (or learning about their existence, at least), not worse. It might be hard at first, but a better grasp of that language (and one's one) could be the prize. You should have seen how I pronounced "Pole Position" when I read it as a 5-7 year old. But then I realized there are different ways to read letters in different languages, and I am better because of that.

 

I also dig how I had the chance to grow up with a lot of Japanese animation (besides the cartoons from the USA we got here in Mexico in the 80s). Those series would retain Japanese characters that I absolutely could not read, but 1) they looked so cool when new monsters in Mazinger Z had their names listed that way, and 2) they helped me realize there were even more languages I could one day try. Had they all been localized to the point where they made me think everything everywhere was just like Mexico, my vision of the world would be definitely smaller than it is now.

 

About spell casting, I see it differently than other techniques when the names are shouted. If it is done in a sports series, then it is silly. Even in adventure series where no magic is involved (like Power Rangers, or something like that), it would still not be needed. But I think it is widely accepted for magic to require some sort of vocal incantation (something Dungeons & Dragons inforces, too).

 

"The fact that so many variations are possible for people to 'get used to' I think just underscores that regions and cultures are different and why localization is important."

 

Seeing what I wrote above, if all versions used the same Japanese originals, getting used to them would only have to be done once, something humans are really capable of doing, unless they prefer to be lazy, and there would not be so many variations (like right now, characters with different names for each language, when the originals were perfectly usable). Again, getting exposed to a little Japanese culture is not a bad thing. And in spell names (besides the fact many even have English names), the "Japanese" part is not even that evident (except in things that start with "maho"), so they could be seen as arcane words. Just learning the root of each would give you easy access to the meaning of all the family.

 

Having said that, I hold the old English spells in high regard, since those looked respectable. I see the Japanese names as magic words, even if some of them come from onomatopeias (not all of them do). Saying the new ones (which would be better in a retro Batman show) respect the Japanese spirit more always sounded weird to me.

 

All in all, I think slowly adding more recognition to the source names in the Wiki would allow those interested to learn more about them and it should also avoid confusions when a monster or spell should or should not be considered the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto.

 

Loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto.

 

Loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto loto.

 

Wait. I don't think I understand. Are you saying you like the name Loto?

 

:tounge:

 

EDIT: Just so you know, I am kidding with you. Even though I prefer Erdrick, I like Loto too. And Roto. None of the localizations really bother me at all. They're all coo'. :wd_coolslime:

Edited by AerynB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, Loto is a bad idea... In french speaking countries, it's a game close to bingo. That's god for endless casino games pun, but not really for a hero.*

(Though, hearing him say "Loto. Who's next ?" after each battle would be fun.)

Roto is perfectly OK, though... I also think

Here it is also the nickname for the lottery. Actully, I think that they use the word in Japanese as well. But it is ロート rather than ロト.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here it is also the nickname for the lottery. Actully, I think that they use the word in Japanese as well. But it is ロート rather than ロト.

 

So, we can see why they decided to change it...

 

There's probably a lot of complaints to be made about the actual translations, but you can't say they didn't put a lot of works in it. Even if more than 70% is in finding puns...

They do a great works to make them feel like there are in the language they are played (not only the English ones,but also every other languages).

It's different for what we were used to all these times, and may sometime be closer to an adaptation than a true translation but it's not necessarily bad. (listen to Red Moon in Disgaea for a proof that adaptation can be good).

 

Was there a really bad translation for a Dragon Quest, at least for a main title ? (Except DWM1, but it's a spin-off, so...)

 

EDIT : And it's more about "Name we grow with" than "name closer to the original". Mlayou is probably closer to the original, and should be considered official name, since it's the version used first in DWM1, but I don't think a lot of people will defend it over Milly/Muriel.

"Bubble Slime" and "Liquid Metal Slime" are closer to the original than "Babble" and "Metabble", but it took a long time for a lot of us (me included...) to accept them.

Well, even if the Slimes have a perfectly good and valid translation in French, I'll still call them Slimes no matter what...

('cause it's an anagram of Smile, still haing a smile, even after being decimated so many times... T'is truly admirable...)

Edited by Holy Slime Knight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow.People really dont use common sense anymore...

 

You ladies seem to forget that,as many normal people there are,are just as many internet trolls,maybe twice the amount.

 

These internet trolls spam Bullshit on Youtube,or run around on forums like these.

everyone KNOWS that.

 

Dont jump to conclusions about me ranting on that site.Ive lost all interest in Dragon Quest,and would puke going to a website like that.

 

Use LOGIC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, none of the localizations really bothered me (yeah, I do hate some of the 'punny' names, like ewwnicorn (yeah, VERY PUNNY!)), but I do like the originals better (eg. Mildrath, Mudou, pierrot, killer panther).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EDIT : And it's more about "Name we grow with" than "name closer to the original". Mlayou is probably closer to the original, and should be considered official name, since it's the version used first in DWM1, but I don't think a lot of people will defend it over Milly/Muriel.

 

Moi, j'aime "Mireille".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Moi, j'aime "Mireille".

 

Moi aussi. Plus que Muriel.

 

I was sure it was her name in the remake...

Edited by Holy Slime Knight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow.People really dont use common sense anymore...

 

You ladies seem to forget that,as many normal people there are,are just as many internet trolls,maybe twice the amount.

 

These internet trolls spam Bullshit on Youtube,or run around on forums like these.

everyone KNOWS that.

 

Dont jump to conclusions about me ranting on that site.Ive lost all interest in Dragon Quest,and would puke going to a website like that.

 

Use LOGIC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tblt8nSKODM&list=PLC6C9D4827D38D4C6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of that info is outright wrong. God only exists in one or two DQ games. For the rest, it is the Goddess...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah as far as I can remember from some of the older ones, none of the priests ever mentioned God or anything of the sort. I remember when I first saw that page and my eyes rolled back so far in my head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...