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Mr. RPG

Dragon Quest VII is currently being "evaluated" for the wester

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Removing random battles from rpgs greatly reduces their difficulty. Don't want to fight tough battles in the final dungeon before the final boss? Now you don't have to. As tedious and unrealistic as random battles are, I prefer my classic rpgs that way.

The random create the tension of trying to escape from a very har dungeon when your party is almost completely wipped out. That dilemma of "Should I try go proceed?", "Should I go back?" "Is that chest worth it?".

On the other hand no random battle make you extremely lazy wich gets your party underleveled and consequently makes the game harder, which might be a positve factor for some people.

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Depending how it's done, non random battle can add more tension.

"This monster is ruining at me ! Should I tryto obtain this chest and risk being attacked behind by the ennemy ?"

 

You should makes the ennemies stronger. And more rewarding.

...Or flood the room with aggressive ennemies. But that could be worse than random battles.

...Or do like in Tales of Innocence or DQIX Grotto, and let you barely the place to avoid monsters.

 

It's harder to do, but it can be really better.

 

I don't find that random battles add tension, only frustration.

In non random battle, you have choice like : Should I try to run away to this ennemy and risk being take behind, right on fight him or sneak behind it ?

Also, it can make monters more unique. Funghouls will come frome nowhere and run at me at sight, Metals will flee as soon as they sees me, Cobra Cardinal will come from the floor as you walk...

 

It add so much to the gameplay. And if random battles rate is already low in the game, it won't change that much.

Edited by Holy Slime Knight
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Removing random battles from rpgs greatly reduces their difficulty. Don't want to fight tough battles in the final dungeon before the final boss? Now you don't have to. As tedious and unrealistic as random battles are, I prefer my classic rpgs that way.

I prefer random battles as well. It ensured that if the game was properly designed you would be around the right level all the time (as long as you didn't flee from battle). It also added a lot of tension to the gameplay if you expended all of your resources in a dungeon and had to get out... it made it very exciting.

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Once again,

It also added a lot of tension to the gameplay if you expended all of your resources in a dungeon and had to get out... it made it very exciting.

 

Once again, I'll find non random battle more exciting than random one. Trying to avoid the monbster running hat you add tension. Letting your guard down to open a chest add tension. fearing of encountering a monster every step when in low health add frustration, NOT tension.

 

I agree that it's harder to implement than random battle, but the otthers DQ games (DQMJ + and DQIX) proved that they are pretty good at it.

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There is no tension in avoiding battles a la DQ9. I know that I can avoid the battles without issue.

 

EDIT:

fearing of encountering a monster every step when in low health add frustration, NOT tension.

I suppose dying would be frustrating, but the possibility of an encounter adds tension. Getting into said battle and winning? That's exciting. Far more exciting than simply wandering past all the enemies that you don't want to fight.

Edited by GrandAlchemist

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There is no tension in avoiding battles a la DQ9. I know that I can avoid the battles without issue.

 

Exactly.

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having random battles also increases the usefullness of items such as herbs. Why should I buy herbs if I can just go in at full strength and make a B line for the boss without encountering a single enemy? I can't remember a single instance of using an herb in IX after i got myself a healer on my team.

 

On the other hand, with random battles you not only have to worry about running out of MP before reaching the boss, you also have to keep your health high. It'll make magic potions and herbs much more usefull as instead of using MP to heal now, you can just use an herb to heal, especially since they're typically inexpensive, you can buy them after a bit of grinidng, or even after you made your trek back to town after looting the dungeon/castle/whatever you're exploring.

 

And as GrandAlchemist said, random battles will make it so that you level up to the point where you could fight against the boss at the proper level without having to worry too much about level grinding. Heck, if a random battle is too tough for you and you can't make it to the boss without getting low health, you aren't ready to fight against the boss then.

 

And lets think of it like this: in V, there is a dungeon later on in the game that holds one of the best armor for the hero. With random battles the dungeon is impossible to get through when you're not prepaired and it feels satisfying solving the puzzle and getting the armor (and maybe one of the monster recruits).

Without random battles, even if you are not prepaired and at 1hp, you could probably make your way through the dungeon and solve the problem without any problems, and probably without fighting a single monster.

 

 

Honestly though; in the end playing DQ 1-8 and DWM 1/2 with random battles and then suddenly changing to non random battles in 9, joker, and joker 2 just felt...wrong. It made the games too easy. I was half asleep when i fought Corvus in 9 for the first time and won with little problems, because I was at 100%. same with Joker and joker 2

 

 

~edit~

 

Geez, i didn't realize i typed that much about something like non random battles vs random battles O_o;

Edited by Kalmana
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Geez, i didn't realize i typed that much about something like non random battles vs random battles O_o;

It's a big deal... but don't worry, we're clearly on the losing team. DQ has gone to the non-random and probably won't be coming back. :(

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And lets think of it like this: in V, there is a dungeon later on in the game that holds one of the best armor for the hero. With random battles the dungeon is impossible to get through when you're not prepaired and it feels satisfying solving the puzzle and getting the armor (and maybe one of the monster recruits).

Without random battles, even if you are not prepaired and at 1hp, you could probably make your way through the dungeon and solve the problem without any problems, and probably without fighting a single monster.

 

 

OK, let's look at this dungeon. It has really narrow passages, and the monsters you encounterare already pretty strong and big.

Let's compare this with a Ruin or Cave Grotto : You don't have a lot of place to avoid the monsters, and some, like the Double Eaters, can run at you as soon as

they appear.

I won't be able to avoid every ennemies here (Archdemon came to mind). Besides, when you're trying to avoid a puzzle, you don't want to risk avoid getting attacked every step, doing through a long battle, and losing tracked of what you're doing.

 

And then if you go back, you'll have to survive until the entrance and then start everythig from scratch.

 

I would have accept the example of the world map better. Or DQMJ 1 + 2 : You have extremely llarge palce and avoiding every monster is really pretty easy.

Even if the goal is to explore, you don't have any challenge. They try to make bigger map in DQIX, with more dead end, but it's still not the same.

 

...Wow, that's a pretty big post, too.

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I can go either way, personally. I like random battles, but only if the encounter rate isn't too high. I should be able to go 7 steps or more without getting into a battle.

 

Dragon Quest IX(and the Joker series) do encounters wrong. When monsters appear on the map, there is a huge delay as they have a spawn animation. Then it takes a little bit for them to actually give chase. And they're not particularly aggressive while chasing you either. So yeah, baring circumstances where you're blocked, it was really damn easy to avoid enemies. You almost had to want to fight battles. They should have more of an EarthBound system where there monsters are randomly spawned but you see them on the world map and if they chase you, you have almost no chance to avoid them.

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In games with non-random battles, if you just walk as you normally do you will encounter as many monsters as if it had random battles. The only difference is that the run command has essentially been mapped to the D-pad. Personally, I like seeing the monsters on the map, it adds a lot of character to the game.

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I kinda like non-random battles. It makes grinding for certain items easier. On the other hand, for this game, it will make some parts much easier, which is needed(HellCloud comes to mind). However, some easy parts will be made easier and that will suck. If random battles are around, grinding will be tougher(at least it was in DWVII(original)). So, I'm more for non-random encounters. But I'm fine either way.

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So far the only screeshots showing monsters on the field were overworld pics the few dungeons pictures showed no monsters. From this one can assume the battle are random on dungeons and non-random on the field... well if that's the case, then it's PERFECT to me.

 

The dungeons are the tense parts where you expect the challenge to be and where you'll be worried about your stats. The field is the place where you would want everything to be more lively. If they changed the overworld to a IX style world than it would make total sense. I really hope that's the case.

Edited by Billy MK

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So far the only screeshots showing monsters on the field were overworld pics the few dungeons pictures showed no monsters. From this one can assume the battle are random on dungeons and non-random on the field... well if that's the case, then it's PERFECT to me.

 

The dungeons are the tense parts where you expect the challenge to be and where you'll be worried about your stats. The field is the place where you would want everything to be more lively. If they changed the overworld to a IX style world than it would make total sense. I really hope that's the case.

 

Honestly, I don't think it would be the case...

The 2 other games with mix system I know are Lufia IIn and TLR.

In these games, the random battles were on maps and non-random in dungeons. When you think of it, it makes sense :

World Map in in a higher scale than Dungeons and Towns, so you can't see the ennemies when walking.

That's why maps had a smaller scale in DQIX, and here too apparently.

If they rescaled maps and let dungeons with random battles, it will seems lazy.

I can understand the interest gameplay-wise, but ambiance-wise, it doesn't make sense.

 

Sadly, it means that encounter rate in dungeons are really low...

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And lets think of it like this: in V, there is a dungeon later on in the game that holds one of the best armor for the hero. With random battles the dungeon is impossible to get through when you're not prepaired and it feels satisfying solving the puzzle and getting the armor (and maybe one of the monster recruits).

Without random battles, even if you are not prepaired and at 1hp, you could probably make your way through the dungeon and solve the problem without any problems, and probably without fighting a single monster.

 

 

OK, let's look at this dungeon. It has really narrow passages, and the monsters you encounterare already pretty strong and big.

Let's compare this with a Ruin or Cave Grotto : You don't have a lot of place to avoid the monsters, and some, like the Double Eaters, can run at you as soon as

they appear.

I won't be able to avoid every ennemies here (Archdemon came to mind). Besides, when you're trying to avoid a puzzle, you don't want to risk avoid getting attacked every step, doing through a long battle, and losing tracked of what you're doing.

 

And then if you go back, you'll have to survive until the entrance and then start everythig from scratch.

 

The thing is, they probably would have made the hallways bigger in order to incoroprate the non-random battles. And if they kept the same monster spawning system that they had from IX, you would have plenty of time to notice, and avoid/run around the monster before he even starts to chase after you. And with the system, I actually found myself running in circles around the enemies just for fun. I have yet to run into a battle I didn't intend on fighting using IX's mechanics.

 

 

So far the only screeshots showing monsters on the field were overworld pics the few dungeons pictures showed no monsters. From this one can assume the battle are random on dungeons and non-random on the field... well if that's the case, then it's PERFECT to me.

 

The dungeons are the tense parts where you expect the challenge to be and where you'll be worried about your stats. The field is the place where you would want everything to be more lively. If they changed the overworld to a IX style world than it would make total sense. I really hope that's the case.

 

That I wouldn't mind as much. If you could see monsters in the overworld but not in dungeons I wouldn't have too much of an issue.

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It's seems it's really not the case, I've found a pic of dungeon/tower, where there is a visible monster. Too bad... but I won't let it ruin the game for me. I love VII and I love IX as well. It seems they be adding a random dungeon system just like in IX so that will bring even more countless hours of gameplay to an already huge and incredible game. It's no use, I'll be anxious until I hear about a western realease...

 

dragon_quest_vii_012.jpg

 

BTW: The heroes are easily avoiding the enemy in the picture, pretty ironic...

Edited by Billy MK

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Isn't that one of the pillar monsters that unexpecting travellers walk into? So I'd imagine that it would be easy to avoid. Besides, it doesn't fly or have legs.

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I find getting into non-random battles far more annoying than random battles. At least with random battles you know you're going to get into a fight eventually. I always feel like I could have avoided that non random battle. Also with random battles you spend less time grinding outside of dungeons since you can't just avoid everything. You gain gold and experience as part of the dungeon. Perhaps a good solution would be fixed battles in dungeons ala Chrono Trigger and random battles on the overworld.

 

Finally I agree that the DQ series does non random battles poorly. It's way too easy to avoid everything making the games far too easy. We live in a world where game companies are making games easier to appeal to more causal players. DQ games used to be challenging but not anymore.

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Something I thought about recently...

There's Whistle in this game right ? If you want to grind, you'll use Whistle anyway.

...And Whistle takes more time with non Random battle, I know...

They decide to, makes the games look fancy instead of making it practical...

Well, metal hunting (and maybe monsters Heart) is still easier that way...

 

I really hope they do something for Classes Level Up.

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having random battles also increases the usefullness of items such as herbs. Why should I buy herbs if I can just go in at full strength and make a B line for the boss without encountering a single enemy? I can't remember a single instance of using an herb in IX after i got myself a healer on my team.

 

On the other hand, with random battles you not only have to worry about running out of MP before reaching the boss, you also have to keep your health high. It'll make magic potions and herbs much more usefull as instead of using MP to heal now, you can just use an herb to heal, especially since they're typically inexpensive, you can buy them after a bit of grinidng, or even after you made your trek back to town after looting the dungeon/castle/whatever you're exploring.

 

And as GrandAlchemist said, random battles will make it so that you level up to the point where you could fight against the boss at the proper level without having to worry too much about level grinding. Heck, if a random battle is too tough for you and you can't make it to the boss without getting low health, you aren't ready to fight against the boss then.

 

And lets think of it like this: in V, there is a dungeon later on in the game that holds one of the best armor for the hero. With random battles the dungeon is impossible to get through when you're not prepaired and it feels satisfying solving the puzzle and getting the armor (and maybe one of the monster recruits).

Without random battles, even if you are not prepaired and at 1hp, you could probably make your way through the dungeon and solve the problem without any problems, and probably without fighting a single monster.

 

 

Honestly though; in the end playing DQ 1-8 and DWM 1/2 with random battles and then suddenly changing to non random battles in 9, joker, and joker 2 just felt...wrong. It made the games too easy. I was half asleep when i fought Corvus in 9 for the first time and won with little problems, because I was at 100%. same with Joker and joker 2

 

 

~edit~

 

Geez, i didn't realize i typed that much about something like non random battles vs random battles O_o;

 

I'ts so true, so true! the random system in DQ games are just perfect! precisely now that im replaying VI and saw your comment, its that its just as easy as that! And specially in a game like VII where the grind for jobs is a tiring long process, leaving the battles at your choice makes the game easier.

I welcome changes in the series, as i like the Tales of series where in newer games they removed the random battles, but only if its well made, i also love the sensation of being at full stamine before entering a dungeon, and challenging the place knowing beforehand that it will be a mess down there, and making a strategy for easy killing/ exp grind / level up/ and then try to destroy the boss and feel that you accomplished a great task, because you made it possible by doing yourself more powerfull.

It's like Horii once said that DQ dungeons were like gambling, because you dont know if you will succeed or not.

Edited by Botsu

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It's seems it's really not the case, I've found a pic of dungeon/tower, where there is a visible monster. Too bad... but I won't let it ruin the game for me. I love VII and I love IX as well. It seems they be adding a random dungeon system just like in IX so that will bring even more countless hours of gameplay to an already huge and incredible game. It's no use, I'll be anxious until I hear about a western realease...

 

dragon_quest_vii_012.jpg

 

BTW: The heroes are easily avoiding the enemy in the picture, pretty ironic...

 

What monster is that? It's been a long time since I played through 7.

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It's seems it's really not the case, I've found a pic of dungeon/tower, where there is a visible monster. Too bad... but I won't let it ruin the game for me. I love VII and I love IX as well. It seems they be adding a random dungeon system just like in IX so that will bring even more countless hours of gameplay to an already huge and incredible game. It's no use, I'll be anxious until I hear about a western realease...

 

dragon_quest_vii_012.jpg

 

BTW: The heroes are easily avoiding the enemy in the picture, pretty ironic...

 

What monster is that? It's been a long time since I played through 7.

The monster appears to be an entasis man, or in the English version, ColumnMan.

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It's seems it's really not the case, I've found a pic of dungeon/tower, where there is a visible monster. Too bad... but I won't let it ruin the game for me. I love VII and I love IX as well. It seems they be adding a random dungeon system just like in IX so that will bring even more countless hours of gameplay to an already huge and incredible game. It's no use, I'll be anxious until I hear about a western realease...

 

dragon_quest_vii_012.jpg

 

BTW: The heroes are easily avoiding the enemy in the picture, pretty ironic...

 

What monster is that? It's been a long time since I played through 7.

The monster appears to be an entasis man, or in the English version, ColumnMan.

 

ColumnMan(looks it up). Now I recognize it. Thanks man. :thumbsup:

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After I read Dwaine's Plus Alpha interview, I gained a better understanding of why they took the route that they did for their translations. I would also be all for them doing the translation of VII. I just hope they will keep the dark feel of the original, and not go too far with the puns. Even with my understanding, I still dislike some parts of DQ V remake. There were quite a few badly placed puns in it.

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After I read Dwaine's Plus Alpha interview, I gained a better understanding of why they took the route that they did for their translations. I would also be all for them doing the translation of VII. I just hope they will keep the dark feel of the original, and not go too far with the puns. Even with my understanding, I still dislike some parts of DQ V remake. There were quite a few badly placed puns in it.

 

Dr Agon...

No, I will never forget it !

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