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Do you like the recent localizations of DQ?  

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Both are fine because DQ already appeals to kids and general audiences, both with its storytelling and character design.

 

The DQ series has a game where you see your father get burned right in front of you, then forcefully throws you into slave labor, and also introduces such acts like marriage, Parent/Child separation, and also kills your Mother that you have spent the whole game searching for. I'm pretty sure that they werent just thinking of the kiddies when they designed that stuff.

 

But whatever floats your boat.

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Both are fine because DQ already appeals to kids and general audiences, both with its storytelling and character design.

 

The DQ series has a game where you see your father get burned right in front of you, then forcefully throws you into slave labor, and also introduces such acts like marriage, Parent/Child separation, and also kills your Mother that you have spent the whole game searching for. I'm pretty sure that they werent just thinking of the kiddies when they designed that stuff.

 

But whatever floats your boat.

 

Exactly. And some of those key scenes are ruined by the accents and puns. I don't remember exactly the phrase, but when you're fighting the Horse guy who steals your wife in DQV, when he dies he says some horrible pun that completely kills the mood. And I don't even think I need to go into that whole bit with Grandmaster Nizmo at the end of the game...My eyes literally went cross-eyed looking at that text, before they rolled into the back of my head.

 

GrandmasterNizmo_BigBadEndingBoss.jpg

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When I got to the encounter with Nizmo I put the game down and screamed my head off for about 5 minutes. After which I picked it up and was complaining the entire 2 fights. And I think I was STILL complaining during the Post-Game. I unlocked the final pachisi board and just quit. I had enough of that games crap by then.

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When I got to the encounter with Nizmo I put the game down and screamed my head off for about 5 minutes. After which I picked it up and was complaining the entire 2 fights. And I think I was STILL complaining during the Post-Game. I unlocked the final pachisi board and just quit. I had enough of that games crap by then.

 

I didn't quite have that reaction. I mean, I did everything possible in the game, three times (once with each bride).

 

However, that was my reaction for Dragon Quest IV. Pretty much near the end of Alena's chapter, I couldn't take it anymore. They completely ruined one of my favorite characters in my mind, and I didn't want to see what they did to the rest. So I quit it and never played it again.

 

But I didn't miss much. I played the Japanese version with the translation patch.

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How were they involved in his creation?

 

Go listen to the interview I posted.

 

I agree...in the Japanese version.

 

No.

 

In Japan. The point is, DQ does NOT appeal to all ages in America.

 

You're looping your logic. First you complain about deviating from the source, then you complain when localization tries to keep that spirit. You don't know what you want. You keep using anime examples, which are often some of the worst cases of localization for a multitude of reasons - time, space, kowtowing to fans, etc.

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Wow. A lot of posts since I last posted. Hmm. It's already been 3 days? Sorry for my slow response.

Most of your concerns have probably been stated to them by several others and myself. If there's anything specific, I could probably pass it along the next time I talk to them.
You can try writing a letter, but it'll most likely be ignored. I wrote two letters directly to the staff via their website and in the mail to SE of America, one after DQIV was released and another after DQV was released. I never got a response from my first letter and for my second letter I got a generic 'We will pass this along to the appropriate people' letter.

Well, if this has been the response to previous letters, I guess yet another letter won't do much good, eh? Still, I'm glad to know that someone has contact with SE. Anything specific? Well, no. I just wanted to say what's been said by the majority of old fans and make sure they were aware. :thumbsup: Thanks!

 

Trust me, I'm not just some guy complaining on the internet.

No, that'd be me. Hi. ;)

I'd say we all equally have the borderline complete lack of any real sway whatsoever.

Yep. Me in a nutshell. Ok, ok. I'll stop. :P Mainly I just wanted to prove that I did at least read most of the rather long arguments posted.

 

If I read correctly, SE has taken a notice of this forum? Well, if that's really true, than surely a topic in the DQ/DW section with 105+ posts should catch their eyes. :whoa::baa:

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No.

 

Okay, you're mixing up what I was talking about. I was comparing the Japanese version of Morrie to what we got in America. Not the random announcer guy. But I guess I'm also lumping Morrie from DQM: Battle Road Victory into that view, where he is more of the announcer personality. Still, I stand by all the stuff I said about how he passes off more as an italian stereotype and all of his original character is lost behind a wall of 'gusto' and 'scussi' other such cheesy catch phrases.

 

You're looping your logic. First you complain about deviating from the source, then you complain when localization tries to keep that spirit. You don't know what you want.

 

Either you don't understand my point or you're really stuck on this view that Plus Alpha is being 'true to the source'. And honestly, if you think they have been true to the source, then you can think that. But don't go claiming my logic is 'looped' based on your perceptions. Obviously, as I've said in nearly every post, I DON'T think they were true to the source. So how can I be reversing my logic if I have always said the same thing? My views don't change based on yours.

 

You don't know what you want.

 

I don't think you understand my argument. So I'm pretty confident you don't know what I want. But beside that point, I've SAID what I want multiple times now. I want a localization that is more toned down, much like we've gotten for FF, Chrono, Zelda, Pokemon, etc. These series don't rely on accents to have solid characters. And they also feature much less severe cases of name changes, eventhough I do admit they change names. But there's a big difference between 'Biggs and Wedge' or 'Cleohatra and Princess Princessia'

 

You keep using anime examples, which are often some of the worst cases of localization for a multitude of reasons - time, space, kowtowing to fans, etc.

 

Because I think the localizations for DQ IV, V and Swords are some of the worst I've seen! You don't have to agree, but can you at least understand that is my whole point? Obviously I'm comparing them to badly done anime dubs. Because that's what they seem like to me! You can claim all you want about how the developers worked directly with SE of Japan or they felt like the changes were good, but the fact is, I don't like it and I think they went overboard. Just like I think many anime dubs went overboard and changed names/scripts for no good reason. Whoever's fault it is, higher ups in SE of Japan, Plus Alpha, whoever, the translation was bad in my eyes. And unnecessary following more traditional and perfectly acceptable translations for games like DQI-III, Monsters and etc that came before. Which none of these relies on accents and tons of name changes.

 

Edit: I'm sorry this isgetting so heated, but it really doesn't seem like you understand my position. And that's understandable because you have the opposite opinion. But....I don't really appreciate you claiming I don't know what I want apparently based on your views.

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Yeah. That is certainly true. Honestly i'm surprised Dwaine hasnt come on here saying that I dont know what *I* want.

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So you want Morrie to have a voice that totally didn't fit his character design. Even in Monster Battle Road he still retains as much of his English characteristics as the Japanese voice actor can convey. Look, the localizations of IV, V, and VI can be debated, but the localization teams worked with Horii when VIII was still in development. Probably did the same with IX. In those cases, yes, they are the source and are choosing what they feel is best for the setting and our language.

 

I'm repeating myself by saying this, but what you don't understand about localization is that the Japanese love to grab foreign words because they sound cool, yet make no sense from our perspective. Princess Princessa is called that because all her Japanese names have to do with cookies. Final Fantasy and Zelda aren't written like DQ, so it's an apples to oranges comparison.

 

It seems you want your standard anime translation, which is exactly what DQ doesn't need. There are other JRPGs that do that and they remain stagnant brands where successful companies are having to struggle to get them on shelves. They got one of those localization companies for VI, and guess what? It wasn't near as good. Like I've said before, I certainly haven't agreed with every decision. Even though I don't agree with it, I still appreciate the thought and creativity that went into it. IV, V, and Swords the worst you've ever seen? Please. If you've played the titles in Japanese, contrast and compare all you want. We'll have a lot of fun discussing that, but stop bashing them like an ignorant, greasy weeaboo.

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... I like Nimzo's speech in DS V :P

 

The awkward text made him come off as more inhuman, I thought.

 

Princess Princessa is called that because all her Japanese names have to do with cookies.

Ahaha, that's great. I do vaguely recall seeing her go by the name 'Pudding', which is funny. Mind, my memories might be getting things mixed up.

 

 

... sorry that I'm not really doing anything here to contribute to this heated discussion, yo.

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I thought her name in the Japanese version was Purin, which is in of itself a shortened version of a transliteration of "Princess". If that's the case, then Princess Princessa is actually a pretty good localization, and one that I actually support

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Look, the localizations of IV, V, and VI can be debated, but the localization teams worked with Horii when VIII was still in development.

 

Apparently they can't be debated because you keep using evidence from DQVIII to support all of Plus Alphas work. And I don't know how many times I said that the translation for DQVIII is tollerable, but I have a problem with what it eventually influenced, games like DQIV, V and Swords. DQIV, V and Swords is my major problem, and Plus Alpha full on admitted they made all those accents and name changes to try and make a 'product that conveys voice acting through text like in DQVIII.' Again, even if you don't agree, can't you see my reasoning? Changing tons of dialogue and names just to make 'voice acting through text' work is beyond tollerable in my eyes.

 

I'm repeating myself by saying this, but what you don't understand about localization is that the Japanese love to grab foreign words because they sound cool, yet make no sense from our perspective.

 

And they could have done a similar thing with those characters in English. Instead, they completely changed their characters and names to simulate cheesy accents from other countries like Spain, France, Britian, Russia, etc. How is that any closer to what the Japanese did? How is that even COMPARABLE to what the Japanese did? I submit they are nowhere near the same characters.

 

And once again, this is quite similar to an Anime dub. Pretty much all Anime have used English catch phrases. Even shows like Kenshin that are set in the late 1800s or fantasy shows like Slayers that aren't even set on the Earth. Likewise, Dragon Quest isn't set on the Earth. So why do all the characters suddenly have Earth based accents? And why do they need to replace all accounts of 'Engrishu' with some cheesy pun or accent?

 

Princess Princessa is called that because all her Japanese names have to do with cookies.

 

I may be missing something here, but what does 'Princessia' have to do with cookies? A name brand? Some kind of foreign cookie I don't know about? See, its the same issue. If she's named after a cookie in Japanese, why didn't they leave it like that in the west? Also, I thought her name was simply 'Princess of Moonbrooke' and she didn't have an official first name. I've seen translations call her 'Pudding', 'Maria' and 'Princess'. So I really don't know what her first name is suppose to be to begin with. But I still don't know where 'Princessia' came from.

 

Final Fantasy and Zelda aren't written like DQ, so it's an apples to oranges comparison.

 

Except once again you're only taking a small part of my post and ignoring the rest of it. Yes, the translations for FF and Zelda are different from DQ. But as I've said a dozen times now, I WANT the translations for DQ to be closer to those games. Obviously I think they're different from each other, hence why I'm arguing the translations for some DQ games are bad and the translations for FF/Zelda are good. Am I really having to spell everything out....

 

It seems you want your standard anime translation, which is exactly what DQ doesn't need. There are other JRPGs that do that and they remain stagnant brands where successful companies are having to struggle to get them on shelves.

 

No, I want a translation with less or devoid of accents and major changes to the script, like we saw with Dragon Quest I-III, Monsters and etc on the GBC/PS1. And I hardly think games like Final Fantasy, Zelda, Pokemon and etc are having a hard time selling. You do remember those were my examples of a more 'toned down' translation, right? Not stuff like Altier or Solatorobo or whatever, which are niche games. But I thought we already went over all this and agreed that certain games sell better or worse mostly due to advertising. Those 'niche' games you're citing sell poorly because of advertising, not their translation. I realize you can make the same argument towards DQ, but that doesn't mean everyone still likes the translation.

 

They got one of those localization companies for VI, and guess what? It wasn't near as good.

 

But that's your opinion. I thought the translation for DQVI, while a little 'dry', was legions better than DQIV and V. I'd rather have an easy to read and SOMEWHAT close to the source translation than a pun filled mess with changes to the script all over the place. I mean, which would you rather read? "I am the dead patron of this castle." Or "OOOOOHHHHHHH IIIIIIII AAAAAMMMMMM AAAA GGGGHHHHOOOOSSSTTTTTTTT!!!"

 

The translation for DQVI was basically the lesser of three evils. And I probably would have never complained if the translations for DQIV and V were toned down like DQVI and IX were. I would have been annoyed by the name changes, but as I've already said multiple times in this thread, I can tollerate name changes. Even games like FF, Chrono, Zelda and Pokemon have name changes. Its the acents and script changes I cannot accept.

 

Like I've said before, I certainly haven't agreed with every decision. Even though I don't agree with it, I still appreciate the thought and creativity that went into it. IV, V, and Swords the worst you've ever seen? Please.

 

Yes. I would put them up there with such Anime dubs as Sailor Moon and CardCaptor Sakura. Because they did the same things. Needless name changes, editing out content, tons of script changes just to make the other changes work and etc. Again, you don't have to agree with me, but that's my view of it. And I'm not alone. Have you been completely ignoring the other posts by people like Tesla, Ceasr Hernandez-Meraz and Faolan? We have all made similar arguments why we think the translations went overboard. Once again, you seem to be taking your views as being superior and pasing off mine as being 'ignorant'. Just because you posted an article stating Morrie was developed with Horii doesn't make all the translations suddenly kosher in my mind. Remember this: http://www.siliconer...s-localization/

 

Its clear that somewhere between the development of DQVIII and the DS games, there was some major changes going on. And not everyone likes it. Stop acting like our arguments are pointless.

 

If you've played the titles in Japanese, contrast and compare all you want. We'll have a lot of fun discussing that, but stop bashing them like an ignorant, greasy weeaboo.

 

I have been trying to. And for nearly every example I have made you have overlooked them or twisted them to mean something else. Except very specific examples that you can cite back to one particular article (Yangus and Morrie). I've pretty much had to spell out every point of my arguments 3-4 times, and still you claim I'm ignorant simply because 'the group worked with Horii on VIII'. They clearly didn't work with Horii on DQIV and V. And I doubt Horii was there signing off of every single change in DQVIII and Swords. Does Horii even know English beyond the basic 2 year education of the avg Japanese person?

 

And now you're calling me a 'weeaboo' so this conversation is pretty much over.

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And I don't know how many times I said that the translation for DQVIII is tollerable, but I have a problem with what it eventually influenced, games like DQIV, V and Swords. DQIV, V and Swords is my major problem, and Plus Alpha full on admitted they made all those accents and name changes to try and make a 'product that conveys voice acting through text like in DQVIII.' Again, even if you don't agree, can't you see my reasoning? Changing tons of dialogue and names just to make 'voice acting through text' work is beyond tollerable in my eyes.

 

Yet you kept bringing up Yangus and Morrie as examples of poor localization when they wound up being better than the original. We are living in an age where players and press alike complain about reading. Dialects can be an effective and affordable way to engage players. I even use them in my writing to separate the characters. I may not like how heavy they turned out in IV, but the thought and skill it took to pull it off is commendable.

 

And they could have done a similar thing with those characters in English. Instead, they completely changed their characters and names to simulate cheesy accents from other countries like Spain, France, Britian, Russia, etc. How is that any closer to what the Japanese did? How is that even COMPARABLE to what the Japanese did? I submit they are nowhere near the same characters.

 

In DQ IV, their goal was to show the player that you were gathering a group of people all over the world and from different walks of life to face a common foe. Those people aren't all going to sound alike. If anything it goes beyond what Horii originally intended since Japanese tends to have more formalities than dialects. Aside from laying it on a little too thick, the only major issue I have with the characters is Manya and Minea probably should've had the Russian dialect since their design and music draws from Romanian and Indian gypsies.

 

Likewise, Dragon Quest isn't set on the Earth. So why do all the characters suddenly have Earth based accents? And why do they need to replace all accounts of 'Engrishu' with some cheesy pun or accent?

 

Stop using examples from anime.

 

...Who said it didn't take place on Earth? Horii himself has stated several times DQ is an olde English, medieval setting. Pelland approached it like that with Dragon Warrior, Honeywood and company took it a step further. While I don't think every name needs to be a joke, it's done to set the series apart and make it fun.

 

Have you been completely ignoring the other posts by people like Tesla, Ceasr Hernandez-Meraz and Faolan?

 

No, but they're coming across more rational. Something didn't happen between VIII and the DS titles. They were all planned out in advance, and if you'd listen to the interview, you'd understand that instead of insisting that your opinion is fact. And yes, Horii does have at least a basic understanding of English and signs off on each and every change. I believe he's similar to Miyamoto where they prefer to speak through interpreters.

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Yet you kept bringing up Yangus and Morrie as examples of poor localization when they wound up being better than the original.

 

God, there's only so many times I can say this is 'your opinion'. Do you even understand this? Not everyone thinks Yangus and Morrie were better in the western release...you do know this right? And yet you claim I'm the one who's stating my argument as fact, when you're entire argument is based on YOUR view that 'they made it better'. Its like you honestly believe there's no other opinion but your own, even when someone is saying no right in front of you.

 

In DQ IV, their goal was to show the player that you were gathering a group of people all over the world and from different walks of life to face a common foe. Those people aren't all going to sound alike.

 

...and nowhere does that mean they need to go in excess and add accents to everyone. The GBC Dragon Quest games, specifically DQIII, was able to seperate different areas and people groups without having to resort to accents. And the original games as written by Yuji Horii only had mild differences between speech patterns and relied on the CONTENT of the script to distringuish character prtsonalities. But once again, you state your view as fact that the accents 'improved' the product, so there's no way for anyone to counter that view. Plus Alpha improved the games, let your decree go out to all the lands and become law.

 

Stop using examples from anime.

 

Yes sir Mr Argument King. Anything else I'm commanded not to do so I can argue in a way you will actually respect and listen to my opinion? Clearly I'm doing it wrong.

 

No, but they're coming across more rational.

 

Really....someone saying they threw down their game in disgust and never finished it because of the accents is more rational than my argument? Which was full of very specific examples of what they could have done to improve the translation and my own admittance to beating the game 3 times?

 

No, but they're coming across more rational. Something didn't happen between VIII and the DS titles. They were all planned out in advance, and if you'd listen to the interview, you'd understand that instead of insisting that your opinion is fact. And yes, Horii does have at least a basic understanding of English and signs off on each and every change. I believe he's similar to Miyamoto where they prefer to speak through interpreters.

 

I DID listen to the interview. Once again, that doesn't mean I think the changes were GOOD. Are you getting this. Someone CAN think the changes are bad, eventhough they listened to that interview. Do I need to repeat it?

 

Look, you want me to comment on that link. Fine, I'll comment. First of all, the first half was full of idiots talking about how the Wii sucked and obsessing over WRPGs. One I finally found the interview from Honeywood, he spent a long time talking about he couldn't get a programming job in Japan. Which sucks, as I have a friend who is in a similar situation. He discussed his role on making some early PS1/Arcade games, which was interesting. He said he knew Iwada and Miyamoto, also interesting. He was stuck on a dead project for the N64 DD, so that sucks. He talked directly with Iwata about Pokemon, and thought it wouldn't sell. Very funny. This goes on and on, and it was all very interesting. He really does sound like someone who focuses on the Japanese audience. The most interesting things I noticed was how many Japanese games didn't have proper sources for both code and the original language. I can definitely understand that many a game, especially FFTactics and Xenogears, had massive issues because the localization teams had to fill in gaps with no source. However, this doesn't excuse games using accents and changing script that they DO know about, which is what has been happening with the DQ games.

 

Then he talks about his works with localizations, there was plenty I can point out that he said was interesting. One major point was how he made the accents work in Chrono Cross. And if you remember, I previously cited Chrono Cross as a good example of a game that used accents, because it didn't CHANGE the characters or original dialogue. He specifically said, each character said the same lines. but accents were added to specific parts of their speech. This follows the original Japanese idea perfectly AND doesn't change the source.

 

Getting to the core of the matter now, he said that he did many of the changes in Dragon Quest VIII to try and 'make it different from the Final Fantasy series' and 'because I was tired of using the same American voice actors'. Neither of these are a good excuse for why he had to change things so drastically with accents. He also made comments to the effect that he was considering doing either the older style 'ye old' translation or something new...but he never even considered a traditional translation. I think anyone with a brain can look at the games, without even seeing an ounce of dialogue, and see that FF and DQ are plenty different already. You didn't need to add British accents to do that. I'm sorry, but I'm still going to argue that the addition of accents, even at the DQVIII level, was unnecessary. He NEVER said that the accents and changes were 'true to the Japanese'. In fact, he specifically stated many times about how he thought changes were better than the original, which I am going to repeat once again, THIS is the point when a localization team steps over the line. A localizations job is not to try and find ways to improve on the original product. Their job is to translate the original product as close as possible. Or at least, this SHOULD be what their job is.

 

He also mentioned that he considered the translation for DQVIII to be 'British Lite'. Which I agree with him. It is a more understandable version of British. Which once again makes me point to games like DQIV and V. They did NOT continue with this, and their accents were both hard to read and often terribly stereotypical. One of the guys at 8-4 even commented that he found the accents in DQIV hard to read. I'm sorry, but if a translation is hard to read and even the TRANSLATIORS have misgivings about it, doesn't that set off a huge red flag in your head? The translation in VIII was lighter and made specifically to be easy to read. Honeywood even mentions how they tried to gradually easy you into the accents. This didn't carry over to the DS games, where the VERY first line of dialogue you see is 'His Majesty is aboot tae make an announcement tae youse all. Simmer down an' listen noo.'

 

The majority of his comments about working directly with Yuji Horii was about smaller details like spell names. Which I have already stated many times that I was fine with the changes to the spell names, and in some ways they are an improvement. He even mentions some instances where Yuji Horii told them flat out no that they couldn't change stuff. And that's at the heart of my views. These people, well intentrioned and all, seemed to have gotten into a mode where they used 'changes' as a defualt option, where they are looking to change more than they keep intact from the source. That is a great deal of what I'm mad about. Just because someone had the bright idea of 'black/white' for naming Nera/Bianca, that doesn't mean it SHOULD be done. The original creator came up with a name, and you're just randomly deciding to change it? What logic is there to that? 99.9% of people WON'T get the change from Flora to Nera, so why do it? Just because you think its funny? He went on to give many other explinations of name changes that followed, and most of the time he seems to have just arbitrarly changed names for no reasons. Even before DQVI came out, he said they needed to come up with changes for names in Dragon Quest IX. But...why did names like Barbera or Princess Moonbrooke need to be changed at all? He never explains this, and in fact seems to be of the mindset that ALL the names have to be changed.

 

Like you said, he also admitted that party chat was cut from IV because of budget. But that still is kind of them cutting one thing for another. Maybe it wasn't because of more time spent on the accents, because he said that didn't slow down the translation, but he could have fought a lot harder for it. Or better yet, go to Yuji Horii and ask him what he thinks. They didn't go over it in the interview, but I bet if he had asked Yuji Horii to do some calling, they would have been given plenty of time and money to do the party chat, as adding party chat was one of the 3 main reasons Yuji Horii remade the game in the first place. I just didn't think his reasons didn't explain well enough. Did he even talk with Yuji Horii about it?

 

The final thing I want to bring up is, apparently these groups HAVE looked on the forums. Honeywood specifically cited Sancho from DQV and he even admitted that they tried to make an accent but didn't know how it would be precieved. And again, they specifically cited forum posts of how people thought he was very stereotypical and even racist. Now are you starting to see my side of the argument? What the translators may have seen as being tongue and cheek, other people will take offense to or find in bad taste. And THIS is why I keep saying the series would have been better without this focus on accents. And sadly, the translators for both 8-4 and Plus Alpha in this interview seem to think that everything about the translations were perfect. One of the 8-4 guys keeps calling it 'an amazingly perfect translation'. They even spend a long period joking about racial slurs and jokes 'not appropriate for podcasts'....then they start going on and on about how great all the name changes and accents are.

 

I will say again I really think these teams THINK they are improving the series and doing a good service to the fans. But as I've said before and has always been my point, they are only a small group of a few people (from the sound of this interview, about 8-12 people total). And they are making their personal views and 'ideas' and making them the standard for the series. They honestly think that accents and names are necessary, simply because one night Honeywood thought the game would sound better with accents. This is a PRIME example of why I dislike over active translation groups, because they have taken a simple idea and warped it into an excuse to allow them to change practically anything they want, and the fanbase has to 'deal with it'. I'm not going to simply deal with it. And from the sound of it, many other people aren't happy with the changes either. And despite your hatred for me continually bringing it up, all of these examples are similar to reasons I've heard names and scripts were changed in Anime dubs. All you did was cement some of my views that accents/name changes weren't needed and, IN MY OPINION, have actualyl been a negative for DQ. Even if the sales don't show it, I think these kinds of translations aren't helping the reputation of the series overall.

 

Now that I have FULLY focused on the interview you are basing your entire argument on, how about you go and read MY link I've posted some 4 times now where Plus Alpha talks about the localization for DQV. Every time I've posted it, and even directly commented on it, you've said nothing.

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First of all, the first half was full of idiots talking about how the Wii sucked and obsessing over WRPGs.

 

Told you not to listen to that. What? No mention of the classy 'champagne out of a penis' line?

 

Like you said, he also admitted that party chat was cut from IV because of budget. But that still is kind of them cutting one thing for another.

 

It doesn't work like that. Horii may control the brand, but Square Enix dictates the game's budget, priority, and release window. Localization is often contracted out to people like Plus Alpha or 8-4. They're paid for their services long before the game is sold and sometimes don't get a percentage of the sale. (Depends on the company and contract.) They weren't allocated enough to complete the game and we got shortchanged. Simple as that. If Horii wanted it finished, he probably would've had to put up his own money.

 

The final thing I want to bring up is, apparently these groups HAVE looked on the forums.

 

Yup, and do you think they'll stick around or listen when people are throwing up the middle finger to them?

 

This is constructive:

 

Maybe keeping Santa Rosa's name and making it a Spanish village would've avoided some of the negative reactions to Sancho.

 

The creativity behind The Gittish Empire was great, but their introduction seemed to be part of the vignette rather than the introduction to the looming threat the game had been building to.

 

Saying their work is horrible and they should bend to your will isn't. It's pissy mudslinging. It doesn't help matters at all. In fact, it probably makes them more inclined to ignore every word and keep doing what the company keeps hiring them to do. I've tackled a DQ game. It's tough. It's a novel. I may not like every change, but I certainly respect them for taking what was originally a throwaway line or scene and try to make it fun and memorable for you, the player.

 

And I've read that Siliconera interview. I'm fine with it. Voilà.

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It doesn't work like that. Horii may control the brand, but Square Enix dictates the game's budget, priority, and release window.

 

Yuji Horii seems to be given pretty free range for development of the games. He's even said in interviews that he told (and request but told) Wada that he would need an extra 9 months to finish Dragon Quest IX, even after the near 5 years of development time. And he was given it. Many people suspect that is why FFXIII was delayed for a third time (definitely isn't smart to release your two biggest games back to back). But yes, he may not have as much control over his product overseas, though the interview you posted seemed to say he had plenty of control over what the localization team did.

 

Yup, and do you think they'll stick around or listen when people are throwing up the middle finger to them?

 

...apparently they do. Because that whole scenario with Sancho is an example of that.

 

Maybe keeping Santa Rosa's name and making it a Spanish village would've avoided some of the negative reactions to Sancho.

 

Probably would have. But as I've said before, I don't think the quarrel is in the name change or even the accent itself. I think its HOW they used the accent. I know plenty of people who are of hispanic decent. They often say that the avg portrayal of Spanish in a video game is rather weak and consists of using the same basic phrases. How do you think these people will feel when a Spanish speaking character is running around going 'Aye caramba!' and 'No me gusta!' Again, I think the translators really did think they were just being a little tongue and cheek, but others will take it as an insult. Much of the accents in the games show a very basic knowledge of the source material. I mean, when your example of a 'Italian' accent is throwing a bunch of food terms in between the dialogue (tuuti-fruuti, lazagna, raviolli!), that's pretty weak. Don't you think an Italian guy MIGHT be insulted by that, even a little?

 

Saying their work is horrible and they should bend to your will isn't. It's pissy mudslinging.

 

Again putting words in my mouth. Stop assuming everything is an extreme. I've never said anything close to 'they should bend to my will'. Everything has always been my opinion and me claiming things I THINK would have been better than the accents. That is far and away from 'they should have done this and their work is horrible'. I'm not even talking directly to Plus Alpha, so how can you even claim I said something like this? But again, I don't even think you understand my side of it so we should end this.

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He has all the overly dramatic poses, 'burning heart' and etc cliches you'd come to expect from his type of character in the Japnese, but all that is replaced with phrases like 'Gusto' and 'rizzoni' and other such nonsense stereotypical phrases in the localization, making him seem more like some crazy Italian stereotype obsessed with food, not a legendary monster tamer with a heart that burns for battle.

 

Out of curiosity, do you know what gusto means? It's not a nonsense stereotypical phrase. Neither is ragazzo. And neither have much to do with food, especially with the way Morrie is presented.

 

I don't think there's really anything to say about most of your comments. You've made your decision, stated your opinion repeatedly, and it's clear you want something that amounts to translation over localization. And I get the feeling that you don't believe the spirit of the text can be localized, and that it's far more important to have the text true to translated definition.

 

If this is true, I don't think I have much else to say.

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Getting to the core of the matter now, he said that he did many of the changes in Dragon Quest VIII to try and 'make it different from the Final Fantasy series' and 'because I was tired of using the same American voice actors'. Neither of these are a good excuse for why he had to change things so drastically with accents. He also made comments to the effect that he was considering doing either the older style 'ye old' translation or something new...but he never even considered a traditional translation. I think anyone with a brain can look at the games, without even seeing an ounce of dialogue, and see that FF and DQ are plenty different already. You didn't need to add British accents to do that. I'm sorry, but I'm still going to argue that the addition of accents, even at the DQVIII level, was unnecessary. He NEVER said that the accents and changes were 'true to the Japanese'.

 

How is using British voice actors any different from using American ones? There are plenty of characters in DQVIII who just have normal voices. Jessica, Angelo and Marcello, for example. How would having them speak with American accents make them more faithful to the source material? Would Dhoulmagus have been any different if they'd used an American actor?

 

It doesn't matter if it's British, American, Australian, South African, or whatever. It's English. All they did was choose the most appropriate voices for the setting.

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I thought her name in the Japanese version was Purin, which is in of itself a shortened version of a transliteration of "Princess". If that's the case, then Princess Princessa is actually a pretty good localization, and one that I actually support

 

That one is actually not that bad. And I thought it stood for "Prin", as well, for quite some time. Until I knew that particular name of hers came paired with "Cookie" for her cousin; then I realized what her name truly meant (while it could still have a double meaning). Of course, each one of them has a set of possible names. Cookie and Pudding are just the ones chosen for Itadaki and more recent videogames (IX and Battle Road). I think they wanted to go the goofy route for them.

 

We are living in an age where players and press alike complain about reading.

 

I agree 100%. That is why I blame the customers.

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Who doesn't like a good ol' "ello guvnor" ala Yangus. Cor blimey I know I do!

 

About the puns, I kinda like 'em too, because it goes well with the kind of light hearted, cheerful mood that you should get from playing these games. Their cheesiness reminds me of the style of the Muppets, which for me is great. But I know not everyone likes the muppets either.

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Forgot to mention that they don't pay for just one localization team. They also have to pay and check for Spanish, French, Dutch, and...something else I'm forgetting. The cause of DQ IX's crashes comes from the text compression because there's so much jammed in there.

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I dont mind some humor in DQ...But they shouldn't overdo it. DQ8 was good because they only used humor with a few characters and it worked marvelously. Also aside from the spell names...I really didnt have a problem with the dialouge in DQ8. It felt really serious and thought out. I dont know why the remakes didnt turn out that good but it seems to be a misstep for the localization team.

 

I AM however holding out till DQM: Terry's Wonderland. If they treat the game similarly as DQ8 then you wont see me complaining. ;)

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This topic led to me Youtubing some DQVIII videos. Everything about that game is as perfect as I remember.

 

Ricky Grover is in Eastenders (popular UK drama) at the moment. When he first appeared last year I recognised the voice immediately.

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About the attack names, I really like them. Kafrizzle, Kaboom Kazam and Oomph they all work. Especially Oomph because it gives you that Oomph feeling that $#!& is about to go down.

They all seem to make the attacks sound more unique, rather than having literal translations. For me, fireball is just too obvious.

 

Though I can see where most of you long time fans are coming from, it's always difficult letting go of the way you were originally familiarized with the series. I don't have that problem because I'm a relatively new fan with my first game being dragon quest VIII.

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Out of curiosity, do you know what gusto means? It's not a nonsense stereotypical phrase. Neither is ragazzo. And neither have much to do with food, especially with the way Morrie is presented.

 

You're mixing up my comments about Ludman/Rodrigo Briscoletti with Morrie. I was complaining that Rodrigo is personified with a weak Italian accent mostly focused on adding random Italian based foods into his speech. Morrie was a whole different argument.

 

And yes I know what gusto means. But using it doesn't explain all of his personality quirks and the typical character archtype he represents.

 

How is using British voice actors any different from using American ones?

 

Don't ask me. It was Honeywood who said it.

 

It doesn't matter if it's British, American, Australian, South African, or whatever. It's English. All they did was choose the most appropriate voices for the setting.

 

That's pretty much based on opinion. I'd argue until DQVIII, few people thought accents were needed for the series. And many people who played the game on the NES even thought all the 'thou' and 'ye old' was overdone. Now ever since DQVIII, most people think accents are mandatory, when they laid it on even more thick had had even more changes than the NES games did. It just goes to show you, westerners don't want an accurate translation, they want a memorable translation. And more traditional translations like the GBC games and PS1 games aren't going to be remembered as much as 'does thou love me' or 'cor blimey!' Trust me, I understand the opposite opinion, I REALLY do. But that doesn't mean I agree with it.

 

I'd also argue that there was a much bigger change than simply using British voices. In order to make those voices work, they had to changed the dialogue to incorporate the British accents, British puns, etc. But few people seem to care about that.

 

But whatever. I've stated my position over a dozen times now and all I seem to be getting is more and more confusion of what my position even is. I really am going to just drop it now for fear that future statements will only lead to more arguments.

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