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#1 Mimas

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:45 PM

I was looking at the Wiki to figure out how I should translate a Japanese spell name to English, and I noticed that the Japanese in the spell list is wrong. Unfortunately this is a side affect of using the English names as the default names for page titles. The problem is that in DQIX they didn't keep the 1:1 translation to the Japanese spell names.
For example in DQ VIII the list of ice spells is: ヒャド (hyado) ヒャダルコ (Hyadaruko) マヒャド (Mahyado)
In the English version it's Crack Crackle Kacrackle
Meanwhile in DQ IX the ice spells are: ヒャド (hyado) ヒャダルコ (Hyadaruko) マヒャド (Mahyado) マヒャデデス (Mahyadedesu)
English: Crack Crackle Kacrack Kacrackle

Mahyadedesu is a new spell, and isn't equivalent to the Mahyado in VIII. But the translation decided to mismatch spell names so that the most powerful spell was always the same name, instead of treating it like the new spell it was.

So if you type Mahyado into the wiki it claims you learn it at level 68 when really you learn it at level 40 in DQ IX.
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#2 PantheonSasuke

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 09:53 PM

This same issue probably applies to other spells, too, like Kafrizz and Kafrizzle, right? Maybe that could be remedied with a redirect page, yo? Something that'd point out the differences / localization choices and have links to what the spell can be in English? (in the case of Mahyado, there could be a link to Kacrack and one to Kacrackle) Sound any good?
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#3 Mimas

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 10:00 PM

Yeah, a disambiguation page is probably the way to go. But it does mess up the info boxes. Really, I just wish Square Enix hadn't made that decision in their translation to begin with.

Yeah, Frizz, Woosh and Bang spells were also affected.
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#4 Cesar Hernandez-Meraz

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:04 PM

The Japanese needs a lot of effort to fix in that wiki (one of the reasons I did not even try to start, since I could never get the time).

I have seen the hero's name listed as "Hîro" in a "think in English first, then try to come up with something Japanese" approach, instead of the usual "hero in the sense of protagonist shujinkô". Remember, hero as a brave person is yûsha (in Japan, courage is the main trait of this kind of hero, just like the "cleric" skillset from Joker, it is really courage and has hero skills). And it is different from the (I think) more traditional hero: eiyû.

主人公【しゅじんこう】
(n) (1) protagonist; main character; hero(ine) (of a story); (2) head of household; (P)

勇者【ゆうしゃ】
(n) hero; the brave; man of valour (valor)

英雄【えいゆう】
(n) (1) hero; heroine; great person

BTW, Mimas, the spell is mahyadedosu 「マヒャデドス」.


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#5 PantheonSasuke

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:05 PM

Alrighty, I tried my hand at making the edit. You can see it here, yo. Look any better?

The problem with stuff like this is that I'm not very savvy with the original Japanese (I think the only two I can recall off the top of my head are Hoimi, Heal, and Gigospark, Lightning Storm, and then I have no idea what that looks like in... well, moon runes is probably rude as all hell, but I don't know what to call it since katakana, hiragana, and kanji all refer to different things) so I'd need a hand to attempt this stuff without making mistakes. I'm probably not the best person for the task, neither, because my contributions to the wiki have been few and far between as of late. (as opposed to when I first joined years ago when it was still on wikia, and its awfulness was so sheer that it alone was motivation enough for me) As easy as making this disambig was, I can be pretty stupid about getting to stuff, even when it isn't hard.
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#6 Cesar Hernandez-Meraz

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:41 PM

Gigospark, Lightning Storm


Not trying to be picky here... It is jigospark. I suppose "jigo" in this case is from "jigoku" (hell).

Gigabreak and gigadein also use electricity, but I think this one is from heaven (the light of justice that only a true hero can summon).

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#7 PantheonSasuke

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 02:50 PM

Not trying to be picky here... It is jigospark. I suppose "jigo" in this case is from "jigoku" (hell).

D'oh! That makes, sense, though, since I think it was translated as HellBlast during the second generation.
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#8 Cesar Hernandez-Meraz

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:01 PM

And the text indicates one summons lightning from the netherworld (or jigoku, in Japanese).
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#9 Mimas

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 02:54 PM

BTW, Mimas, the spell is mahyadedosu 「マヒャデドス」.

Geh! I knew that didn't sound right, but I rarely ever used that spell (just once to see what it looked like). I actually copied that Japanese from a Japanese walkthrough page. Thought I would make less typos than if I had entered it by hand, but Japanese people make typos too it seems. Thanks for the catch, I'll edit my post so I don't spread the mistake.

主人公【しゅじんこう】
(n) (1) protagonist; main character; hero(ine) (of a story); (2) head of household; (P)

勇者【ゆうしゃ】
(n) hero; the brave; man of valour (valor)

英雄【えいゆう】
(n) (1) hero; heroine; great person

Yeah, Eiyuu is more traditional. Hero is "Hîro" terminology that refers more to a super hero, rather than a savior hero.

Alrighty, I tried my hand at making the edit. You can see it here, yo. Look any better?

The problem with stuff like this is that I'm not very savvy with the original Japanese (I think the only two I can recall off the top of my head are Hoimi, Heal, and Gigospark, Lightning Storm, and then I have no idea what that looks like in... well, moon runes is probably rude as all hell, but I don't know what to call it since katakana, hiragana, and kanji all refer to different things) so I'd need a hand to attempt this stuff without making mistakes. I'm probably not the best person for the task, neither, because my contributions to the wiki have been few and far between as of late. (as opposed to when I first joined years ago when it was still on wikia, and its awfulness was so sheer that it alone was motivation enough for me) As easy as making this disambig was, I can be pretty stupid about getting to stuff, even when it isn't hard.


Looks good. You will also need to have Blizzard as an alternative for Mahyado. I've never made a disambiguation page, and the whole format of the Wiki as it currently stands isn't very Japanese name friendly so it makes it hard for me to edit.

For Japanese names, and their previous names we made up a chart a while ago that Woodus used.
So
DQI
DQII
DQIII
DQIV
DQVII
DQVIII

The following is from Dragon Quest 25th Aniversary book.

Spells that were new to V
マホキテ Mahokite

Spells that were new to VI
マダンテ* Madante
グランドクロス* Gurando Kurosu (Grand cross)
ザオリーマ** Zaoriima
マホターン
マジックバリア
フローミ
レミラーマ
*Was listed as a skill not a spell in the game.
**Yeah, I've never heard of that spell before either. Supposdly priest type monsters that have mastered Goof-Off (and are currently one) sometimes cast this spell. Resurects everyone. Supposdly exits for a combination of monsters in VIII as well.

Spells that were new to VII
コーラルレイン Kooraru Rein (Coral Rain)
メイルストロム Meiru Sutoromu
マジャスティス Majyasutisu
ギガジャティス Gigajyatisu

Spells that were new to VIII
ディバインスペル Dibainsperu
マホアゲル Mahoageru
メタパニーマ Metapaniima
ペスカトレ Pesukatore

Spells that were new to IX
メラガイアー* Meragaiaa
イオグランデ* Iogurande
マヒャデドス* Mahyadetosu
バギムーチョ* Bagimuucho
ドルマ* Doruma
ドルクマ* Dorukuma
ドルモーア* Dorumooa
ドルマドン* Dorumadon
ベホイム Behoimu
へナトス** Henatosu
ピオラ** Piora
ボミエ Bomie
マホバリア* Mahobaria
*They debuted in Joker 1 first. This was just their first time in a main game.
**They debuted in Monsters 1 first. This was just their first time in a main game.
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#10 Prestidigitator

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 08:56 PM

The Zaor- part does indicate that it is a ressurection spell but i could be wrong. I searched for it, the close I got was a description for Megazaru.

I'm all up for disambiguity pages. Separates the Translation things. Like the Ka- and Ka--izzles.
I could do some work next weekend after I get some stuff done. I could have done it now but my phone doesn't support the website or something.
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#11 PantheonSasuke

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 09:30 PM

Looks good. You will also need to have Blizzard as an alternative for Mahyado. I've never made a disambiguation page, and the whole format of the Wiki as it currently stands isn't very Japanese name friendly so it makes it hard for me to edit.

So you're saying Blizzard would need a disambiguation page, too? But if it was only- aw, crap, it goes to frostburn. Dag nabbit. So where should it link? Frostburn and Kacrackle, or frostburn and Kacrack? (I'd assume Kacrackle at the moment, unless your real intention would be frostburn and Mahyado)

Oh, and thanks for mentioning that bit about the spells being introduced in the first Joker. I meant to ask about that before but forgot, blagh.
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#12 Mimas

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 11:11 PM

The Zaor- part does indicate that it is a resurrection spell but i could be wrong. I searched for it, the close I got was a description for Megazaru.

Well I can look up the monster collaboration that is required in VIII and someone could see what happens. It would give us an official name for the spell as well. Could be in DQVI DS as well.

I could do some work next weekend after I get some stuff done. I could have done it now but my phone doesn't support the website or something.

Thanks! That would be great!

So you're saying Blizzard would need a disambiguation page, too? But if it was only- aw, crap, it goes to frostburn. Dag nabbit. So where should it link? Frostburn and Kacrackle, or frostburn and Kacrack? (I'd assume Kacrackle at the moment, unless your real intention would be frostburn and Mahyado)


Sadly I'm not sure. How do the other wikis that we are affiliated handle this sort of thing? Have Pokemon "spells" and monsters stayed consistent?
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#13 PantheonSasuke

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:06 AM

Sadly I'm not sure. How do the other wikis that we are affiliated handle this sort of thing? Have Pokemon "spells" and monsters stayed consistent?

Things in Pokeymanz have been pretty consistent, yo. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that Rattata and Raticate used to be Rat Pokemon in the first two generations, but all following games they are Mouse Pokemon, which Bulbapedia uses in its article.

I want to say that Kacrackle might be the way to go IF the attack is the strongest / last learned in the game. I think both III and IV have four ice spells to them: the weakest hits one, the stronger hits a group, the even stronger hits everything, and the strongest hits a group (I recall it being this way in III, at least). Thinking back, I think the everything one was Blizzard and the strongest group one is... IceSpears? With that in mind, Blizzard might actually refer to Kacrack if it's the second strongest, despite hitting everything.

Thinking it over more, Blizzard might also need the Mahyado treatment since localization usually has the last learned, strongest move being a Ka-le, except Kaboom... and maybe Kaswoosh? I say this because the first two Monsters games only have spells upgrade twice, so under current localization the monsters would probably learn Crack / Crackle / Kacrackle, but in games with four ice spells it would be Crack / Crackle / Kacrack / Kacrackle.

III getting relocalized would probably help a bit here :P But it sure seems like Blizzard might have to have links to frostburn, Kacrack, and Kacrackle, yo.
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#14 Prestidigitator

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 02:50 PM

Most moves have been consistent between English and Japanese. However you can check Bulbapedia's other alliances with International Pokemon wikis like the German one or the Polish one. I don't know these languages, so I don't know how much of a help they could be.

What's this link say about ザオリーマ: http://www5.atwiki.j...pages/2478.html

Edited by Prestidigitator, 15 April 2012 - 03:00 PM.

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#15 Mimas

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 10:46 PM

What's this link say about ザオリーマ: http://www5.atwiki.j...pages/2478.html


Sorry to take so long to reply.
Here is a quick and dirty translation

DQVI
It is hard to tell if it is a skill or a spell but Chamaro, Hoimin, Kings, Bahoman sometimes cast this spell using the "play" skill. It has the amazing ability of casting Zaoriku without any MP. As it is the highest of the 8 "play" possibilities and may or may not occur, it is best not to rely on it.

DQVIII
It has made it into real use. It is a special attack when you have a combination of Hoimin, Behop, and Hagurin. It is more powerful than DQVI and does both Zaoriku on the whole party and Behomazun. It is a special treasure among your trump cards.

Edited by Mimas, 19 April 2012 - 10:47 PM.

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#16 Prestidigitator

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:13 AM

Aaah. So it's just a Lucky Dip or Hocus Pocus version of Kazing in DQVI with 0 MP and is quite rare.
DQVII makes it more common with a specific set of monsters using a move. Though I am unsure of what moves since I haven't played that game as you know.

Was it useful?

Edited by Prestidigitator, 20 April 2012 - 09:14 AM.

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#17 PantheonSasuke

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:27 PM

Also, would a more feasible solution to the changing spell names/descriptions (like the ice spells in DQ9) be to have wiki pages for spell FAMILIES rather than individual spells? For example, you could put Hyado, Hyadaruko, Hyadain, Mahyado, and Mahyadedesu on the same page, and call it "Ice Attack Spell Family" or something. That way you could explain the differences between the spells better without making the wiki user jump between pages.

I think that's how it was at first, but somewhere along the lines it was decided to give the spells separate pages. It probably would help alleviate some of these disambiguation pages, but it might also make the articles really big in order to cover everything.
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#18 Prestidigitator

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:27 PM

I'm probably doing work on the wiki tomorrow.
I'll test it out and see how the rest of the people think of it.
BTW, I need someone to check on my localizations for DQIV as per Manual of Style. Name on wiki is SylverBroadsword to check for all my changes.
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#19 Mimas

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 01:24 PM

Well, that information should help us find the English name for the spell, but I can't find any guides talking about the scout monsters in 8, and what they do. I don't own the game in English, so I can't test it out unfortunately. But if we ask around someone should be able to try it out.
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