Jump to content


Photo

Thunder Sword vs. Falcon Sword


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 Safis

  • Member
  • Sword Slinger

  • 377 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Awards:Awards Image

Posted 25 June 2011 - 02:11 PM

So I'm playing through DWII on the GBC and I just got the Thunder Sword. Now my hero had been using the Falcon Sword up to this point, as he would do more damage in two strikes with the Falcon Sword than with one strike with any other weapon, and I noticed my attack power upon equipping the Thunder Sword is still less than double what I had with the Falcon Sword. Yet, every guide I've consulted has insisted that the Thunder Sword is the best weapon for him.

Would it not be more beneficial to leave the Falcon Sword equipped, and just hang on to the Thunder Sword to use as an item in battle when necessary? Does anyone have any input on this?

Edited by Safis, 25 June 2011 - 02:12 PM.

  • 0
Dragon Quest Collection:
Dragon Quest I, II, III, IV (Famicom)
Dragon Quest III, V, VI (Super Famicom)
Dragon Warrior I.II, III (Gameboy Color)
Dragon Quest IV (PlayStation)
Dragon Warrior VII (PlayStation)
Dragon Quest V, VIII (PlayStation 2) (J)
Dragon Quest IX (Nintendo DS) (J)
Dragon Warrior Monsters, DWM 2: Cobi's Journey (Gameboy Color)
Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker (Nintendo DS) (U/C)
Torneko no Daibouken (Super Famicom)

Still Wanting:
Dragon Quest I.II (Super Famicom)
Dragon Quest Monsters: Caravan Heart (Gameboy Advance)
Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 2 (DS)

Posted Image

#2 Liquid Metal Babble

  • Member
  • Sword Slinger

  • 448 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lenexa, KS
  • Interests:Dragon Quest.
  • Tag City:Kansas City
  • Tag State:Kansas
  • Tag Zip:66216
  • Awards:Awards Image

Posted 25 June 2011 - 02:24 PM

The Falcon Sword is not double, its 150% over two hits. The Thunder Sword is just a whopping monster of a damage dealer. Just compare the two on the same enemy and you'll see. Plus, Cannock can equip the Falcon Sword, but not the Thunder Sword. Give him the Falcon Sword, and Midenhall the Thunder Sword, and you'll have two beat-sticks to deal death to the bastard enemies in and around Hargon's castle.
  • 0

#3 Safis

  • Member
  • Sword Slinger

  • 377 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Awards:Awards Image

Posted 25 June 2011 - 03:21 PM

I don't think your 150% stat is right. The attack damage is based on your character's strength + the weapon's attack bonus, varied somewhat by a random number. The Falcon Sword only has an attack bonus of around 7, so it's basically your bare strength with a little boost, but you do it twice, whereas the Thunder Sword strikes with a very high attack bonus tacked onto your bare strength, but only once. So basically, as your character's strength grows, the attack with Thunder Sword grows by that much, but the attack with Falcon Sword grows by double that.

So much for theory, now I've tested it on the battlefield. For convenience I chose the Basilisks around Beran as my target, and attacked them with each weapon around 10 times to get an idea of the damage spread with each. My character is L27, if you're wondering.

Thunder Sword: 83 - 105 damage
Falcon Sword: 45 - 56 damage, twice

The range is probably slightly wider than that, but I thought a test sample of 10 strikes with each should be enough to get a fair estimate of their power. Based on these numbers, the Falcon Sword has the potential to do 90 - 112 damage per round, with the added bonus that if the first strike kills an enemy the second one will be directed toward another instead of being wasted.

It seems that in every respect the Falcon Sword is better. The only thing is it can't cast a spell when used as an item in battle, but you can still use the Thunder Sword for that.

The only potential advantage I can think of for the Thunder Sword is when you're fighting enemies with extra high defense. In this case the defense would only be calculated into your total damage once, instead of being taken out of each strike with the Falcon Sword.
  • 0
Dragon Quest Collection:
Dragon Quest I, II, III, IV (Famicom)
Dragon Quest III, V, VI (Super Famicom)
Dragon Warrior I.II, III (Gameboy Color)
Dragon Quest IV (PlayStation)
Dragon Warrior VII (PlayStation)
Dragon Quest V, VIII (PlayStation 2) (J)
Dragon Quest IX (Nintendo DS) (J)
Dragon Warrior Monsters, DWM 2: Cobi's Journey (Gameboy Color)
Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker (Nintendo DS) (U/C)
Torneko no Daibouken (Super Famicom)

Still Wanting:
Dragon Quest I.II (Super Famicom)
Dragon Quest Monsters: Caravan Heart (Gameboy Advance)
Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 2 (DS)

Posted Image

#4 Liquid Metal Babble

  • Member
  • Sword Slinger

  • 448 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lenexa, KS
  • Interests:Dragon Quest.
  • Tag City:Kansas City
  • Tag State:Kansas
  • Tag Zip:66216
  • Awards:Awards Image

Posted 25 June 2011 - 04:27 PM

Whichever sword really does not matter significantly, then. The highest HP any regular enemy has in the game is the Atlas at 206. The two swords average damage is less than 10% apart. It will still take two hits to kill most of the enemies in Rhone and Hargon's castle. Interesting note, the Thunder Sword has a 95 attack power in the GB version, as opposed to an 80 on the NES. The Falcon Sword, likewise, went to 7 from 5.

Level 27 Attack Power w/Thunder Sword = 202 (Str 107 + 95); w/Falcon Sword 114x2 (228). (Attack /2) - (Defense /4) is the standard DQ damage algorithm (most enemies have 0 Defense). So take your total attack power and cut it in half to find your average damage. If you are fighting enemies with no defense, as you said, the Falcon Sword is better. Against enemies with Defense, such as the final bosses, the Thunder Sword wins out.

Giving the Thunder Sword to Midenhall/Lorasia, and the Falcon Sword to Cannock is still a good idea, at least for random encounters. Hargon and Malroth pretty much shake off most damage dealt to them. This is where the Thunder Sword works best.

The Staff of Thunder/Bolt Staff is also greatly empowered in the GB version, going from 15 to 45 attack power.

Correction: Most enemies do not have a Defense of 0. Most enemies do have quite low defense, however. Many of the Rhone enemies have 200+, with Malroth having a whopping 255.

Edited by Liquid Metal Babble, 25 June 2011 - 04:38 PM.

  • 0

#5 Princess Lily

  • Member
  • Dauntless Dragovian

  • 7,230 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Interests:swimming, drawing, playing video games, watching anime, reading
  • Awards:Awards Image

Posted 25 June 2011 - 07:42 PM

Thuder Sword is better imo. Also do not forget on GBC the Prince of Cannock can now equip the Light Sword which is also better.

The Falcon Sword is mostly useful in the remake to take advatage of the auto-targeting when fighting large groups of enemies and wanting to conserve MP. There was no auto targeting in the old NES version.
  • 0
Posted Image

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

#6 Safis

  • Member
  • Sword Slinger

  • 377 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Awards:Awards Image

Posted 25 June 2011 - 08:57 PM

Yeah, I made it through to Rhone and now I'm definitely having better success with Thunder Sword and Light Sword respectively. The PoC was only doing 4-6 damage per swing when I tried giving him the Falcon Sword, but with the Light Sword, he does around 40. That is, when fighting Gold Batboons, whatever they're calling them in this one (Bat Demons? Something like that.) You're right, LMB, the Falcon sword on the PoL/M worked well on the baddies in the Cave to Rhone where they had lower defense, but now that I'm in Rhone, the Thunder Sword is much more powerful.
  • 0
Dragon Quest Collection:
Dragon Quest I, II, III, IV (Famicom)
Dragon Quest III, V, VI (Super Famicom)
Dragon Warrior I.II, III (Gameboy Color)
Dragon Quest IV (PlayStation)
Dragon Warrior VII (PlayStation)
Dragon Quest V, VIII (PlayStation 2) (J)
Dragon Quest IX (Nintendo DS) (J)
Dragon Warrior Monsters, DWM 2: Cobi's Journey (Gameboy Color)
Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker (Nintendo DS) (U/C)
Torneko no Daibouken (Super Famicom)

Still Wanting:
Dragon Quest I.II (Super Famicom)
Dragon Quest Monsters: Caravan Heart (Gameboy Advance)
Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 2 (DS)

Posted Image

#7 Liquid Metal Babble

  • Member
  • Sword Slinger

  • 448 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lenexa, KS
  • Interests:Dragon Quest.
  • Tag City:Kansas City
  • Tag State:Kansas
  • Tag Zip:66216
  • Awards:Awards Image

Posted 25 June 2011 - 10:15 PM

I am glad it was worked out. Have fun with the hardest part of the game.
  • 0

#8 Safis

  • Member
  • Sword Slinger

  • 377 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Awards:Awards Image

Posted 26 June 2011 - 04:10 AM

Will do ;)

I really do enjoy DQII, despite it being considered the worst in the series by many people (and there's a whole thread on that topic recently...).
  • 0
Dragon Quest Collection:
Dragon Quest I, II, III, IV (Famicom)
Dragon Quest III, V, VI (Super Famicom)
Dragon Warrior I.II, III (Gameboy Color)
Dragon Quest IV (PlayStation)
Dragon Warrior VII (PlayStation)
Dragon Quest V, VIII (PlayStation 2) (J)
Dragon Quest IX (Nintendo DS) (J)
Dragon Warrior Monsters, DWM 2: Cobi's Journey (Gameboy Color)
Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker (Nintendo DS) (U/C)
Torneko no Daibouken (Super Famicom)

Still Wanting:
Dragon Quest I.II (Super Famicom)
Dragon Quest Monsters: Caravan Heart (Gameboy Advance)
Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 2 (DS)

Posted Image

#9 Liquid Metal Babble

  • Member
  • Sword Slinger

  • 448 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lenexa, KS
  • Interests:Dragon Quest.
  • Tag City:Kansas City
  • Tag State:Kansas
  • Tag Zip:66216
  • Awards:Awards Image

Posted 26 June 2011 - 02:29 PM

Will do ;)

I really do enjoy DQII, despite it being considered the worst in the series by many people (and there's a whole thread on that topic recently...).


Dragon Warrior II is my favorite game ever made, and it has been since 1990.

Also, Thunder Sword vs. Falcon Sword is probably the coolest thread title I have ever seen.
  • 0

#10 The Mystical One

  • Member
  • Monster Masher

  • 966 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh
  • Tag City:Pittsburgh
  • Tag State:PA
  • Tag Zip:16055
  • Tag Country:USA
  • Awards:Awards Image

Posted 26 June 2011 - 05:54 PM

But.. what about the Sword of Destruction? (I find that it does not paralyze you with inaction as much as I once feared)
  • 0

#11 Liquid Metal Babble

  • Member
  • Sword Slinger

  • 448 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lenexa, KS
  • Interests:Dragon Quest.
  • Tag City:Kansas City
  • Tag State:Kansas
  • Tag Zip:66216
  • Awards:Awards Image

Posted 26 June 2011 - 06:39 PM

But.. what about the Sword of Destruction? (I find that it does not paralyze you with inaction as much as I once feared)


The Sword of Destruction/Devil Sword hits really, really hard. It only has an attack power 10 points higher than the Thunder Sword, however. That extra 5 damage a hit does not adequately compensate for the paralysis. Its still cool to even get one, however.
  • 0

#12 Princess Lily

  • Member
  • Dauntless Dragovian

  • 7,230 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Interests:swimming, drawing, playing video games, watching anime, reading
  • Awards:Awards Image

Posted 26 June 2011 - 08:12 PM

DW 2 is underrated.

I'm kind of an expert on it I like it so much. I've not had as much trouble as people complain about. The GBC version however is a lot different from the NES version. It's a lot easier because of many nice improvements, which I'm to lazy to list them all.
  • 0
Posted Image

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

#13 Liquid Metal Babble

  • Member
  • Sword Slinger

  • 448 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lenexa, KS
  • Interests:Dragon Quest.
  • Tag City:Kansas City
  • Tag State:Kansas
  • Tag Zip:66216
  • Awards:Awards Image

Posted 26 June 2011 - 08:46 PM

DW 2 is underrated.

I'm kind of an expert on it I like it so much. I've not had as much trouble as people complain about. The GBC version however is a lot different from the NES version. It's a lot easier because of many nice improvements, which I'm to lazy to list them all.


I can play through all of Dragon Warriors I and II in a day. I used to play through Dragon Warrior II almost every few days the summer when I was ten. I actually ran the battery out of my original copy of the game.
  • 0

#14 Princess Lily

  • Member
  • Dauntless Dragovian

  • 7,230 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Interests:swimming, drawing, playing video games, watching anime, reading
  • Awards:Awards Image

Posted 26 June 2011 - 09:11 PM

Wow. Did you get your copy as soon as it came out? When did it first come out?

Oh, in the GBC version try this for fun or to save MP late in game.

Thunder Sword + Bolt Staff x2 (one for each spell caster) use effect of each on large groups of enemies to conserve MP. Yes, you'll be on very end of game when can get a second Bolt Staff off a Magus in Hargon's tower.
  • 0
Posted Image

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

#15 Liquid Metal Babble

  • Member
  • Sword Slinger

  • 448 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lenexa, KS
  • Interests:Dragon Quest.
  • Tag City:Kansas City
  • Tag State:Kansas
  • Tag Zip:66216
  • Awards:Awards Image

Posted 26 June 2011 - 11:03 PM

Wow. Did you get your copy as soon as it came out? When did it first come out?

Oh, in the GBC version try this for fun or to save MP late in game.

Thunder Sword + Bolt Staff x2 (one for each spell caster) use effect of each on large groups of enemies to conserve MP. Yes, you'll be on very end of game when can get a second Bolt Staff off a Magus in Hargon's tower.


I got Dragon Warrior II for Christmas in 1990. Rather, my older brother did, but I played it when he and his friends weren't.

I usually just run from all the enemies in Rhone and Hargon's Castle, it's faster that way. I fight my battles at that stage in the game with Midenhall attacking w/the Thunder Sword, Cannock casting Defeat, and Moonbrooke using the Staff of Thunder as an item. I fight Hargon and Malroth by Midenhall swinging like a fiend, Cannock casting Increase, and Moonbrooke casting HealAll.

I have only breezed the GBC version once, but I remember it being significantly easier.
  • 0

#16 Safis

  • Member
  • Sword Slinger

  • 377 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Awards:Awards Image

Posted 26 June 2011 - 11:59 PM

Yeah, it's been years since I played the NES version of DWII, but it sure seems to me that the GBC version is a lot easier. The attack redirection when your target is already defeated by someone else that round does make a BIG difference too.

As for the Defeat spell, I've never been one to use it ordinarily. What sort of success rate does it have? I mean I've tried it out the odd time in various DQ games, but it always seemed like it missed 90% of the time so I never gave it any consideration. Is it really worthwhile?
  • 0
Dragon Quest Collection:
Dragon Quest I, II, III, IV (Famicom)
Dragon Quest III, V, VI (Super Famicom)
Dragon Warrior I.II, III (Gameboy Color)
Dragon Quest IV (PlayStation)
Dragon Warrior VII (PlayStation)
Dragon Quest V, VIII (PlayStation 2) (J)
Dragon Quest IX (Nintendo DS) (J)
Dragon Warrior Monsters, DWM 2: Cobi's Journey (Gameboy Color)
Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker (Nintendo DS) (U/C)
Torneko no Daibouken (Super Famicom)

Still Wanting:
Dragon Quest I.II (Super Famicom)
Dragon Quest Monsters: Caravan Heart (Gameboy Advance)
Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 2 (DS)

Posted Image

#17 Liquid Metal Babble

  • Member
  • Sword Slinger

  • 448 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lenexa, KS
  • Interests:Dragon Quest.
  • Tag City:Kansas City
  • Tag State:Kansas
  • Tag Zip:66216
  • Awards:Awards Image

Posted 27 June 2011 - 02:19 AM

Yeah, it's been years since I played the NES version of DWII, but it sure seems to me that the GBC version is a lot easier. The attack redirection when your target is already defeated by someone else that round does make a BIG difference too.

As for the Defeat spell, I've never been one to use it ordinarily. What sort of success rate does it have? I mean I've tried it out the odd time in various DQ games, but it always seemed like it missed 90% of the time so I never gave it any consideration. Is it really worthwhile?


I actually do not know the algorithm for Defeat, but it works most of the time in every Dragon Quest game, quite honestly. It usually does not affect enemies that it clearly should not (undead), though. In this game, for 4 MP, the ability to smoke a group of enemies outright is better than one 4MP Firebane which would take four or five uses to lay out the same amount of foes. There is a reason you get Defeat five levels after Firebane--I usually have to grind around Rhone to even get Cannock to level 23. I run away from most fights in that game now days, however.

The attack redirection really made little difference to me. The way that game works, Cannock and Moonbrooke deal pretty much pitiful damage compared to Midenhall, so I target enemies to take advantage of that fact. Basically, Round One: Midenhall hits enemy 1, Cannock hits enemy 2, Moonbrooke uses Staff of Thunder. Round Two: Midenhall hits enemy two, Cannock hits enemy three, Moonbrooke uses Staff of Thunder and kills enemy one. Round three ends as expected.

I have played that game so many times. I have played through it in Japanese, twice. I beat the Famicom cartridge, and the Super Famicom Reprise version.
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users